What if this team goes 10-6?

[Spaulding]

Mission, pretty much my sentiments as well although I'm not yet in the fire MM immediately, more so end of season unless the ship rights itself in a hurry.

I think finding a good head coach is easier to find and gauge than a good GM. Rating GM's is so subjective. Is the poor record due to personnel or due to coaching? That's the big debate because if the latter it's the GM and if the former it's the coach.

I'm of the firm belief that although TT has failed on some levels, that overall he's been a solid GM who hasn't made any bad FA moves or player contracts that have mortgaged our future and has done a good job of stocking the roster with enough talent to win.

Is it that the line is devoid of talent or simply that Campen blows? Also, for supposedly keeping certain players to strengthen the special teams it sure doesn't seem that Slocum is crafting them into something "special."

If M3 goes at the end of the season (and personally not looking that far forward yet), it becomes paramount that TT finds someone who complements his GM style. M3 does not. TT needs to find someone who knows how to get the best out of what he has instead of someone who's modus operandi is just developing QBs and building a multiples offense.

Dead on. Not sure if he has some others in mind for HC from his prior days with Seattle or as a player but I'd hope it wouldn't be a retread.

Not enamored with Shanahan, Bilick, Gruden or even Holmgren. I'd be fine with Cowher as I love his fire but I thought rumor were he wanted to stick close to North Carolina and/or also have some GM say.

My ideal coach would be the planning/tactician of Bilicheat, the fire of Cowher and press conference skills of Denny Green/Jim Mora

[Partial]

Mission, pretty much my sentiments as well although I'm not yet in the fire MM immediately, more so end of season unless the ship rights itself in a hurry.

I think finding a good head coach is easier to find and gauge than a good GM. Rating GM's is so subjective. Is the poor record due to personnel or due to coaching? That's the big debate because if the latter it's the GM and if the former it's the coach.

I'm of the firm belief that although TT has failed on some levels, that overall he's been a solid GM who hasn't made any bad FA moves or player contracts that have mortgaged our future and has done a good job of stocking the roster with enough talent to win.

Is it that the line is devoid of talent or simply that Campen blows? Also, for supposedly keeping certain players to strengthen the special teams it sure doesn't seem that Slocum is crafting them into something "special."

If M3 goes at the end of the season (and personally not looking that far forward yet), it becomes paramount that TT finds someone who complements his GM style. M3 does not. TT needs to find someone who knows how to get the best out of what he has instead of someone who's modus operandi is just developing QBs and building a multiples offense.

Martyball.

[outflow]

Man, really? The optimism in this thread is intolerable. I don't think there is a snowball's chance in hell this team can go 6-2 here on out. This team has way too many problems...terrible o line, a non anticipative qb, no pass rush, bad offensive game planning, and a horrendous special teams outfit.

There is a whole lot of kool aid guzzling going on here.

Yes, its unheard of for a 4-4 midpoint team to finish 10-6...never happens.

Think before you type, most of us don't "expect" to go 10-6, but if you don't think its possible you are more deluded than those that think it is.

Given the schedule coming up and the fact we've not beaten a winning team since week 4 Indy last year (I have no idea if this is true, Bedard said this on the radio and I don't care to look it up), I don't think it's that unreasonable.

Ravens have had a much tougher schedule and look like an infinitely better 4-4 team than us.

Dallas looks light years better. They're OL is huge, Romo will have all day, and Rodgers won't have any time because there is a zero percent chance of having an banged up or misplaced tackle compete with DW.

Steelers are going to be damn near impossible to beat on the road. They've also won 4 in a row, including last night against the 6-1 Broncos. We haven't beaten a winning team, let alone an elite team in a long time.

Cardinals are clicking right now and look much faster and deeper offensively and better defensively as well.

We squeeked one out against the Bears when Cutler threw 4 picks. This was at home w/ two weeks to prepare. What are the odds we have a repeat performance, especially with Lovie having our number the past 5 years or so. I'd say slim.

I think they're going to drop those 5 for sure. The other games are debatable.

Thank you for this post, I agree wholeheartedly.

And Bobblehead your calling me out for being delusional. Please tell me you're kidding right? This team has no chance of going 6-2 here on out. I challenge you to give a little reasoning as to why you think it is instead of taking a swipe.

Again, like I said, I don't "expect" to go 6-2, but here is a little reasoning.

Forest Gregg once had a team that was 1-7 and looked like complete horseshit...they finished 8-8.

Last year the cardinals were 7-3, dropped 5 out of the next 7 and then ran the table to the superbowl.

2 years ago the giants were 6-2 at the midpoint then finished 10-6, then went on to beat the bucs, packers, and cowboys all on the road and then knocked off the perfect patriots to win the superbowl...in the regular season their record was 0-4 against the pack, cowboys and patriots.

I could continue with this all night, but I think its unquestionable that those of us that say it "could" happen are being much more realistic than those of you that say "no way in hell" it can happen.

Again is it likely...no, but its anything but a forgone conclusion that it can't happen....hell, in 2006 the packers were 1-4, then later 4-8 before running the last 4 and barely missing the playoffs....yea, not even possible they could suddenly click and finish 10-6....that kind of thing never happens.

Lesson over, go back to making outlandish statements then acting indignant when someone points out the extreme hyperbole you are using.

PS...If we do finish 10-6 I can't wait to hear how we didn't actually win 6 games, it was just that 6 teams played really bad and "gave" us a win.

Bobblehead if they go 6-2 the rest of the way, they go 6-2 with no excuses. period.

The problem with your reasoning is that it deals with "other" teams. In no way do you make arguments using the strengths of this particular Packer roster. In my earlier post I gave a number of reasons which again includes: a non existant Packer rush amidst a total defensive system overhaul, a coach who is absolutely horrendous with his ability to scheme an opponent/playcall, an offensive line that is an embarrasment and a laughingstock, and a qb who has unequivocally regressed (to what extent remains a question). Probably the biggest one that I'll throw out now is the big play secondary is nowhere to be found. This leads me to believe they are not buying the system or luck is working itself out. Think about the turnover differential early in the season. If that has now swung the other way, things will be ugly. Couple these reasons along with a schedule that is more difficult than most around here would admit and you have a recipe for a team that will not finish 6-2 to close. I feel that strongly to use the absolute.

The thing about all of this that has me sitting back and observing how all this plays out is the fact that the Packers cannot use injuries as an excuse.

[bobblehead]

Man, really? The optimism in this thread is intolerable. I don't think there is a snowball's chance in hell this team can go 6-2 here on out. This team has way too many problems...terrible o line, a non anticipative qb, no pass rush, bad offensive game planning, and a horrendous special teams outfit.

There is a whole lot of kool aid guzzling going on here.

Yes, its unheard of for a 4-4 midpoint team to finish 10-6...never happens.

Think before you type, most of us don't "expect" to go 10-6, but if you don't think its possible you are more deluded than those that think it is.

Given the schedule coming up and the fact we've not beaten a winning team since week 4 Indy last year (I have no idea if this is true, Bedard said this on the radio and I don't care to look it up), I don't think it's that unreasonable.

Ravens have had a much tougher schedule and look like an infinitely better 4-4 team than us.

Dallas looks light years better. They're OL is huge, Romo will have all day, and Rodgers won't have any time because there is a zero percent chance of having an banged up or misplaced tackle compete with DW.

Steelers are going to be damn near impossible to beat on the road. They've also won 4 in a row, including last night against the 6-1 Broncos. We haven't beaten a winning team, let alone an elite team in a long time.

Cardinals are clicking right now and look much faster and deeper offensively and better defensively as well.

We squeeked one out against the Bears when Cutler threw 4 picks. This was at home w/ two weeks to prepare. What are the odds we have a repeat performance, especially with Lovie having our number the past 5 years or so. I'd say slim.

I think they're going to drop those 5 for sure. The other games are debatable.

Thank you for this post, I agree wholeheartedly.

And Bobblehead your calling me out for being delusional. Please tell me you're kidding right? This team has no chance of going 6-2 here on out. I challenge you to give a little reasoning as to why you think it is instead of taking a swipe.

Again, like I said, I don't "expect" to go 6-2, but here is a little reasoning.

Forest Gregg once had a team that was 1-7 and looked like complete horseshit...they finished 8-8.

Last year the cardinals were 7-3, dropped 5 out of the next 7 and then ran the table to the superbowl.

2 years ago the giants were 6-2 at the midpoint then finished 10-6, then went on to beat the bucs, packers, and cowboys all on the road and then knocked off the perfect patriots to win the superbowl...in the regular season their record was 0-4 against the pack, cowboys and patriots.

I could continue with this all night, but I think its unquestionable that those of us that say it "could" happen are being much more realistic than those of you that say "no way in hell" it can happen.

Again is it likely...no, but its anything but a forgone conclusion that it can't happen....hell, in 2006 the packers were 1-4, then later 4-8 before running the last 4 and barely missing the playoffs....yea, not even possible they could suddenly click and finish 10-6....that kind of thing never happens.

Lesson over, go back to making outlandish statements then acting indignant when someone points out the extreme hyperbole you are using.

PS...If we do finish 10-6 I can't wait to hear how we didn't actually win 6 games, it was just that 6 teams played really bad and "gave" us a win.

Bobblehead if they go 6-2 the rest of the way, they go 6-2 with no excuses. period.

The problem with your reasoning is that it deals with "other" teams. In no way do you make arguments using the strengths of this particular Packer roster. In my earlier post I gave a number of reasons which again includes: a non existant Packer rush amidst a total defensive system overhaul, a coach who is absolutely horrendous with his ability to scheme an opponent/playcall, an offensive line that is an embarrasment and a laughingstock, and a qb who has unequivocally regressed (to what extent remains a question). Probably the biggest one that I'll throw out now is the big play secondary is nowhere to be found. This leads me to believe they are not buying the system or luck is working itself out. Think about the turnover differential early in the season. If that has now swung the other way, things will be ugly. Couple these reasons along with a schedule that is more difficult than most around here would admit and you have a recipe for a team that will not finish 6-2 to close. I feel that strongly to use the absolute.

The thing about all of this that has me sitting back and observing how all this plays out is the fact that the Packers cannot use injuries as an excuse.

You asked for reasoning, not Packer specific reasoning...quit changing the parameters midway please.

Ok, Packer reasons we can turn it around.

1) Every year our running game gets stronger as the season progresses. It is looking a tad better right now....but we gotta stick with it.
2) Mathews and Raji are coming on....especially Mathews.
3) Jordy and Finley returning will bump the ST and offense a bit.
4) The players should get more comfortable and the coaching staff utilizing the players in the 3-4.
5) We discovered a player in Lang and getting him on the field will be a plus. Hell, anything should be a plus in the OL, they almost CAN'T play worse.
6) I can't imagine continuing to screw up the punt and kick teams...at some point guys gotta get replaced with guys who don't give up 70 yard returns.

Thats a handful of things that could work out better. Just as we looked unstoppable against other teams #1's in preseason we have looked god awful at times....but when you have a QB that can audible and hit James Jones for a long score anytime a defense lines up wrong you got a shot.

[mraynrand]

The next two games have to be won to make the playoffs. NFC games, at home, against possible wild card competitors. Even winning 1 will not be enough. They have to find a way to win or it's over.

[Packers4Ever]

Re: What if this team goes 10-6?

I see a lot of vitirol in the posts most of you are making. Fire TT. Fire MM. Scrap the O line. Hawk Sucks. Kamp is gone...ect...ect...

what would you all say if the Pack goes 6-2 the rest of the season and makes the playoffs?

I'd say that the Packer coach's and players really turned it around. As a fan that's what I expect to happen and 8-8 doesn't cut it. The GM supplies the players. If their inadequate then MM has to ask for more and TT has to do something to get fresh talent onboard. It's game to game when your half way through the schedule and 4-4.

I just cannot get into this attitude of ....''we'll wait till seasons end and then re-assess the whole thing''. We have to beat Dallas at home this week. No. . . if's, and's or but's about it. If we don't as fans we should be looking for some real changes.

No more of this lolly dogging attitude.

Uhh, I think you mean lollygagging attitude, don't you, Woody ? :P

[outflow]

Man, really? The optimism in this thread is intolerable. I don't think there is a snowball's chance in hell this team can go 6-2 here on out. This team has way too many problems...terrible o line, a non anticipative qb, no pass rush, bad offensive game planning, and a horrendous special teams outfit.

There is a whole lot of kool aid guzzling going on here.

Yes, its unheard of for a 4-4 midpoint team to finish 10-6...never happens.

Think before you type, most of us don't "expect" to go 10-6, but if you don't think its possible you are more deluded than those that think it is.

Given the schedule coming up and the fact we've not beaten a winning team since week 4 Indy last year (I have no idea if this is true, Bedard said this on the radio and I don't care to look it up), I don't think it's that unreasonable.

Ravens have had a much tougher schedule and look like an infinitely better 4-4 team than us.

Dallas looks light years better. They're OL is huge, Romo will have all day, and Rodgers won't have any time because there is a zero percent chance of having an banged up or misplaced tackle compete with DW.

Steelers are going to be damn near impossible to beat on the road. They've also won 4 in a row, including last night against the 6-1 Broncos. We haven't beaten a winning team, let alone an elite team in a long time.

Cardinals are clicking right now and look much faster and deeper offensively and better defensively as well.

We squeeked one out against the Bears when Cutler threw 4 picks. This was at home w/ two weeks to prepare. What are the odds we have a repeat performance, especially with Lovie having our number the past 5 years or so. I'd say slim.

I think they're going to drop those 5 for sure. The other games are debatable.

Thank you for this post, I agree wholeheartedly.

And Bobblehead your calling me out for being delusional. Please tell me you're kidding right? This team has no chance of going 6-2 here on out. I challenge you to give a little reasoning as to why you think it is instead of taking a swipe.

Again, like I said, I don't "expect" to go 6-2, but here is a little reasoning.

Forest Gregg once had a team that was 1-7 and looked like complete horseshit...they finished 8-8.

Last year the cardinals were 7-3, dropped 5 out of the next 7 and then ran the table to the superbowl.

2 years ago the giants were 6-2 at the midpoint then finished 10-6, then went on to beat the bucs, packers, and cowboys all on the road and then knocked off the perfect patriots to win the superbowl...in the regular season their record was 0-4 against the pack, cowboys and patriots.

I could continue with this all night, but I think its unquestionable that those of us that say it "could" happen are being much more realistic than those of you that say "no way in hell" it can happen.

Again is it likely...no, but its anything but a forgone conclusion that it can't happen....hell, in 2006 the packers were 1-4, then later 4-8 before running the last 4 and barely missing the playoffs....yea, not even possible they could suddenly click and finish 10-6....that kind of thing never happens.

Lesson over, go back to making outlandish statements then acting indignant when someone points out the extreme hyperbole you are using.

PS...If we do finish 10-6 I can't wait to hear how we didn't actually win 6 games, it was just that 6 teams played really bad and "gave" us a win.

Bobblehead if they go 6-2 the rest of the way, they go 6-2 with no excuses. period.

The problem with your reasoning is that it deals with "other" teams. In no way do you make arguments using the strengths of this particular Packer roster. In my earlier post I gave a number of reasons which again includes: a non existant Packer rush amidst a total defensive system overhaul, a coach who is absolutely horrendous with his ability to scheme an opponent/playcall, an offensive line that is an embarrasment and a laughingstock, and a qb who has unequivocally regressed (to what extent remains a question). Probably the biggest one that I'll throw out now is the big play secondary is nowhere to be found. This leads me to believe they are not buying the system or luck is working itself out. Think about the turnover differential early in the season. If that has now swung the other way, things will be ugly. Couple these reasons along with a schedule that is more difficult than most around here would admit and you have a recipe for a team that will not finish 6-2 to close. I feel that strongly to use the absolute.

The thing about all of this that has me sitting back and observing how all this plays out is the fact that the Packers cannot use injuries as an excuse.

You asked for reasoning, not Packer specific reasoning...quit changing the parameters midway please.

Ok, Packer reasons we can turn it around.

1) Every year our running game gets stronger as the season progresses. It is looking a tad better right now....but we gotta stick with it.
2) Mathews and Raji are coming on....especially Mathews.
3) Jordy and Finley returning will bump the ST and offense a bit.
4) The players should get more comfortable and the coaching staff utilizing the players in the 3-4.
5) We discovered a player in Lang and getting him on the field will be a plus. Hell, anything should be a plus in the OL, they almost CAN'T play worse.
6) I can't imagine continuing to screw up the punt and kick teams...at some point guys gotta get replaced with guys who don't give up 70 yard returns.

Thats a handful of things that could work out better. Just as we looked unstoppable against other teams #1's in preseason we have looked god awful at times....but when you have a QB that can audible and hit James Jones for a long score anytime a defense lines up wrong you got a shot.

Quit being silly. Of course I am talking about specific 09-10 Green Bay Packer reasoning.

1) Every year our running game gets stronger as the season progresses. It is looking a tad better right now....but we gotta stick with it.

Just because the running game may become more successful doesn't mean McCarthy will know how to exploit that in an offensive gameplan. Also, if the Green Bay keeps spotting 14 pts to start the game, all the running game in the world isn't going to help.

2) Mathews and Raji are coming on....especially Mathews.

I will give you Mathews, but Raji to this point just looks like another body. He may grow to be good, but for the next 8 games I doubt he will be a playmaker.

3) Jordy and Finley returning will bump the ST and offense a bit.

Theoretically, yes. However, if the offensive line doesn't block and Rogers doesn't snap out of this funk, these two won't make any difference.

4) The players should get more comfortable and the coaching staff utilizing the players in the 3-4.

Wow, you give this coaching staff alot of credit. This only works if the Packers improve greater than their opponents. In other words I can say that the opponents are also improving and their coaching staffs are also utiilizing their players better.

5) We discovered a player in Lang and getting him on the field will be a plus. Hell, anything should be a plus in the OL, they almost CAN'T play worse.

A rookie is going to save this offensive line?

6) I can't imagine continuing to screw up the punt and kick teams...at some point guys gotta get replaced with guys who don't give up 70 yard returns.

Why not? It's been going on this long. McCarthy's tendency to overlook the small things is a major knock against him. I have no faith in his ability to clean up the special teams or penalities.

Thats a handful of things that could work out better. Just as we looked unstoppable against other teams #1's in preseason we have looked god awful at times....but when you have a QB that can audible and hit James Jones for a long score anytime a defense lines up wrong you got a shot.

It's the PRESEASON! So what if you can hit a home run on the big play. Unless you sustain drives and play sound football, that big play will only win you a possible 1 or 2 games.

[ThunderDan]

outflow-

Give it a rest. You asked for reasons and Bobble gave them to you. Twice.

[MJZiggy]

I look at 10-6 right now as improbable, but not impossible. If we go on a rally, just like I have to wonder what's causing the inconsistency now, I'd have to wonder what pulled it all together at that time. It would be good to hear from the players' perspectives and some of the staff if there were a sudden shift in the locker room, whether McCarthy pulled the team together, or whether he just pulled his head out of his butt and called a game that didn't leave me wondering in the fourth quarter what the hell happened to [insert concept that was working before and we just walked away from it here].

I'm not convinced this is a TT problem yet, because I do think there is talent there. If the player flashes it, it means they can do it and it's up to the coaches to get them to do it consistently.

So in the unlikely event we pull things together when the schedule becomes more difficult, I won't know what to think, just then.

[outflow]

outflow-

Give it a rest. You asked for reasons and Bobble gave them to you. Twice.

You really think his first attempt at reasoning was acceptable?

[pbmax]

Mission, pretty much my sentiments as well although I'm not yet in the fire MM immediately, more so end of season unless the ship rights itself in a hurry.

I think finding a good head coach is easier to find and gauge than a good GM. Rating GM's is so subjective. Is the poor record due to personnel or due to coaching? That's the big debate because if the latter it's the GM and if the former it's the coach.

I'm of the firm belief that although TT has failed on some levels, that overall he's been a solid GM who hasn't made any bad FA moves or player contracts that have mortgaged our future and has done a good job of stocking the roster with enough talent to win.

Is it that the line is devoid of talent or simply that Campen blows? Also, for supposedly keeping certain players to strengthen the special teams it sure doesn't seem that Slocum is crafting them into something "special."

If M3 goes at the end of the season (and personally not looking that far forward yet), it becomes paramount that TT finds someone who complements his GM style. M3 does not. TT needs to find someone who knows how to get the best out of what he has instead of someone who's modus operandi is just developing QBs and building a multiples offense.

Martyball.

OK, I'll bite. Just what do you think Martyball has to do with T2?

[Bretsky]

I look at 10-6 right now as improbable, but not impossible. If we go on a rally, just like I have to wonder what's causing the inconsistency now, I'd have to wonder what pulled it all together at that time. It would be good to hear from the players' perspectives and some of the staff if there were a sudden shift in the locker room, whether McCarthy pulled the team together, or whether he just pulled his head out of his butt and called a game that didn't leave me wondering in the fourth quarter what the hell happened to [insert concept that was working before and we just walked away from it here].

I'm not convinced this is a TT problem yet, because I do think there is talent there. If the player flashes it, it means they can do it and it's up to the coaches to get them to do it consistently.

So in the unlikely event we pull things together when the schedule becomes more difficult, I won't know what to think, just then.

Me thinks we'd have to go through two coaches and a decade of losing seasons before you and JH would see fault in TT

But the idea that you are starting to ponder it creates hope that some day you might ask TTT to actively participate in free agency like he did in year one of his reign

[Spaulding]

I look at 10-6 right now as improbable, but not impossible. If we go on a rally, just like I have to wonder what's causing the inconsistency now, I'd have to wonder what pulled it all together at that time. It would be good to hear from the players' perspectives and some of the staff if there were a sudden shift in the locker room, whether McCarthy pulled the team together, or whether he just pulled his head out of his butt and called a game that didn't leave me wondering in the fourth quarter what the hell happened to [insert concept that was working before and we just walked away from it here].

I'm not convinced this is a TT problem yet, because I do think there is talent there. If the player flashes it, it means they can do it and it's up to the coaches to get them to do it consistently.

So in the unlikely event we pull things together when the schedule becomes more difficult, I won't know what to think, just then.

Me thinks we'd have to go through two coaches and a decade of losing seasons before you and JH would see fault in TT

But the idea that you are starting to ponder it creates hope that some day you might ask TTT to actively participate in free agency like he did in year one of his reign

Bretsky,it's not just about FA activity, most of the time those actions back fire. I can think of quite a few more Joe Johnson, LaVar Arrington, Fred Smoot, etc. FA busts than I can of Jared Allen or Woodson.

Although I'd like to see him more active in FA and make the off season a little more exciting/hopeful, I still think he's put enough talent into offensive lineman since his debacle in 2005 with Klemm and O'Dwyer that it's Campen/McCarthy for not coaching it up or figuring out a way to implement the quick hitting slant or screens more often.

They are basically setting up the line for failure. Either that or AR is calling audibles away from those types of plays. If that's the case it's on him and his tendency to hold the ball too long which is contributing to the line looking shoddy. And if that is truly the case, why McCarthy doesn't set him down and law down the law is beyond me. Then again this is all speculation.

[bobblehead]

outflow-

Give it a rest. You asked for reasons and Bobble gave them to you. Twice.

You really think his first attempt at reasoning was acceptable?

You sir are an idiot...no 2 ways about it. You made an over the top statement and now are pulling a tyrone bigguns and trying to change the debate every step of the way.

You said no way in hell this team can go 10-6. you are wrong, plain and simple. I agree it isn't likely, but certain things can and do click with different teams every season.

Not only was my first "attempt" at reasoning acceptable, it flat out beat your argument so you tried to change the debate. When my second "attempt" was asserted you simply try and tell me that those things CAN NOT HAPPEN. Even a 10 year old can see the flaw in your logic.

I have said over and over its not likely, but we are fans. We like to be optimistic. We want hope.

For the last time, I don't THINK we are going 10-6, but if you tell me its not possible you are using over the top rhetoric and you will continue to open your mouth and prove yourself the fool.

[mraynrand]

So what if you can hit a home run on the big play. Unless you sustain drives and play sound football, that big play will only win you a possible 1 or 2 games.

I'd like to see that big play that wins two games. Still, if you suggest that 'the big play' can win one or two games, perhaps it will win the one or two games to take the Packers from 8-8- to 10-6 and maybe the playoffs.