What if this team goes 10-6?

[MichiganPackerFan]

One thing that I'm curious about is over the last decade or more, if you take the unrestricted free agents who garnered the top five or ten highest contracts each season, how did they perform over the life of that contract? I'm curious what the FAB% is? (Free Agent Bust!!!)

[MJZiggy]

I look at 10-6 right now as improbable, but not impossible. If we go on a rally, just like I have to wonder what's causing the inconsistency now, I'd have to wonder what pulled it all together at that time. It would be good to hear from the players' perspectives and some of the staff if there were a sudden shift in the locker room, whether McCarthy pulled the team together, or whether he just pulled his head out of his butt and called a game that didn't leave me wondering in the fourth quarter what the hell happened to [insert concept that was working before and we just walked away from it here].

I'm not convinced this is a TT problem yet, because I do think there is talent there. If the player flashes it, it means they can do it and it's up to the coaches to get them to do it consistently.

So in the unlikely event we pull things together when the schedule becomes more difficult, I won't know what to think, just then.

Me thinks we'd have to go through two coaches and a decade of losing seasons before you and JH would see fault in TT

But the idea that you are starting to ponder it creates hope that some day you might ask TTT to actively participate in free agency like he did in year one of his reign

Bretsky,it's not just about FA activity, most of the time those actions back fire. I can think of quite a few more Joe Johnson, LaVar Arrington, Fred Smoot, etc. FA busts than I can of Jared Allen or Woodson.

Although I'd like to see him more active in FA and make the off season a little more exciting/hopeful, I still think he's put enough talent into offensive lineman since his debacle in 2005 with Klemm and O'Dwyer that it's Campen/McCarthy for not coaching it up or figuring out a way to implement the quick hitting slant or screens more often.

They are basically setting up the line for failure. Either that or AR is calling audibles away from those types of plays. If that's the case it's on him and his tendency to hold the ball too long which is contributing to the line looking shoddy. And if that is truly the case, why McCarthy doesn't set him down and law down the law is beyond me. Then again this is all speculation.

I was speaking to coaching in my post. Like I said, when you see flashes from the players, that means that the talent and ability is there. It's the coach's job to turn the flashes into reliability. If this team pulls itself together then the question is did the coaching take effect, or is the discipline player-motivated, because it sure hasn't been self-motivated so far.

[Partial]

Mission, pretty much my sentiments as well although I'm not yet in the fire MM immediately, more so end of season unless the ship rights itself in a hurry.

I think finding a good head coach is easier to find and gauge than a good GM. Rating GM's is so subjective. Is the poor record due to personnel or due to coaching? That's the big debate because if the latter it's the GM and if the former it's the coach.

I'm of the firm belief that although TT has failed on some levels, that overall he's been a solid GM who hasn't made any bad FA moves or player contracts that have mortgaged our future and has done a good job of stocking the roster with enough talent to win.

Is it that the line is devoid of talent or simply that Campen blows? Also, for supposedly keeping certain players to strengthen the special teams it sure doesn't seem that Slocum is crafting them into something "special."

If M3 goes at the end of the season (and personally not looking that far forward yet), it becomes paramount that TT finds someone who complements his GM style. M3 does not. TT needs to find someone who knows how to get the best out of what he has instead of someone who's modus operandi is just developing QBs and building a multiples offense.

Martyball.

OK, I'll bite. Just what do you think Martyball has to do with T2?

He's the guy I want coaching our team to turn our boys into men. He is my favorite coach in the NFL. I think he was given a horrible deal in SD but if all that shit with his bro and slapping the owner in the face like that I guess it was pretty disrespectful.

[pbmax]

Martyball.

OK, I'll bite. Just what do you think Martyball has to do with T2?

He's the guy I want coaching our team to turn our boys into men. He is my favorite coach in the NFL. I think he was given a horrible deal in SD but if all that shit with his bro and slapping the owner in the face like that I guess it was pretty disrespectful.

Marty wanted to hire his brother as his new D coordinator after he lost Phillips to the Cowboys. This is the same Kurt who we have fired twice as safeties coach.

Marty, unlike a lot of established coaches will take a young team and mold it. But he wants final say on the roster as he will only accept players who do it his way.

And Marty's way is running the football on offense. No matter how many times in a low scoring and close game his offense cannot deliver. He accepted a West Coast offense with Hackett and McCarthy for Joe Montana in KC, but with lesser QBs, he relied on the run more and more.

Marty also has a tendency to burn his team's out. He has had several notable playoff failures despite in several years being the best team in a conference. His training camp's are as old school as is possible these days. I think he was running the Oklahoma drill in Washington the year he was there. I think he is retired for good now.

[mraynrand]

Martyball.

OK, I'll bite. Just what do you think Martyball has to do with T2?

He's the guy I want coaching our team to turn our boys into men. He is my favorite coach in the NFL. I think he was given a horrible deal in SD but if all that shit with his bro and slapping the owner in the face like that I guess it was pretty disrespectful.

Marty wanted to hire his brother as his new D coordinator after he lost Phillips to the Cowboys. This is the same Kurt who we have fired twice as safeties coach.

Marty, unlike a lot of established coaches will take a young team and mold it. But he wants final say on the roster as he will only accept players who do it his way.

And Marty's way is running the football on offense. No matter how many times in a low scoring and close game his offense cannot deliver. He accepted a West Coast offense with Hackett and McCarthy for Joe Montana in KC, but with lesser QBs, he relied on the run more and more.

Marty also has a tendency to burn his team's out. He has had several notable playoff failures despite in several years being the best team in a conference. His training camp's are as old school as is possible these days. I think he was running the Oklahoma drill in Washington the year he was there. I think he is retired for good now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIrbAwbCMQ0

[outflow]

outflow-

Give it a rest. You asked for reasons and Bobble gave them to you. Twice.

You really think his first attempt at reasoning was acceptable?

You sir are an idiot...no 2 ways about it. You made an over the top statement and now are pulling a tyrone bigguns and trying to change the debate every step of the way.

You said no way in hell this team can go 10-6. you are wrong, plain and simple. I agree it isn't likely, but certain things can and do click with different teams every season.

Not only was my first "attempt" at reasoning acceptable, it flat out beat your argument so you tried to change the debate. When my second "attempt" was asserted you simply try and tell me that those things CAN NOT HAPPEN. Even a 10 year old can see the flaw in your logic.

I have said over and over its not likely, but we are fans. We like to be optimistic. We want hope.

For the last time, I don't THINK we are going 10-6, but if you tell me its not possible you are using over the top rhetoric and you will continue to open your mouth and prove yourself the fool.

So let me get this straight, you don't think its going to happen yet you like to be optimistic and want hope? Shame on me I don't want to take your hope away!

I will tell you again it is not possible with this team. The only "reasoning" you can give me is that other teams in the past have done it so surely these Packers can. And let me guess the Lions can finish to 8-8 because that Forest Gregg team did?

[SnakeLH2006]

You sir are an idiot...no 2 ways about it. You made an over the top statement and now are pulling a tyrone bigguns and trying to change the debate every step of the way.

Ty doesn't do that....

It's possible we got 6-10 again...I doubt it. I also doubt we go 10-6. Packers have not beat anyone good...yet I picked them to beat Dallas in my pick 'em pool this week. I have no shame. We definitely have the talent. But Arod needs to stop the sacks and throw it away (that's possible). McFatty needs to man up and coach (doubt that at all lately). But, this is all on Mike. What happened to McFatty? I thought he was the bad-ass hard-line dude that was gonna coach this team to playoffs yearly. Watch his show...watch his mannerisms. Dude is soft as hell. Either way. Get rid of his clown fake-ass shit no matter what happens here on out. He's proven he's not a good leader by any stretch through play-calling/penalties/Arod holding the ball.

He's terrible. It's like watching the Bucks a few years ago under Terry Stotts. Sad. No leadership at all.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

outflow-

Give it a rest. You asked for reasons and Bobble gave them to you. Twice.

You really think his first attempt at reasoning was acceptable?

You sir are an idiot...no 2 ways about it. You made an over the top statement and now are pulling a tyrone bigguns and trying to change the debate every step of the way.

You said no way in hell this team can go 10-6. you are wrong, plain and simple. I agree it isn't likely, but certain things can and do click with different teams every season.

Not only was my first "attempt" at reasoning acceptable, it flat out beat your argument so you tried to change the debate. When my second "attempt" was asserted you simply try and tell me that those things CAN NOT HAPPEN. Even a 10 year old can see the flaw in your logic.

I have said over and over its not likely, but we are fans. We like to be optimistic. We want hope.

For the last time, I don't THINK we are going 10-6, but if you tell me its not possible you are using over the top rhetoric and you will continue to open your mouth and prove yourself the fool.

Listen up dipshit. If you are arguing with Outflow there is no reason to bring up my name.

Show me ONCE in a thread about FOOTBALL where i've changed the debate.

Ty could say the very same thing about you...and your ridiculous theories on MM and his marriage that you continue to throw out there with NO evidence whatsoever.

And, your ridiculous successful coaches aren't married...which you then HEDGED on completely.

Show a little bit of class. There is no reason to mention my name in your little tiff.

I'll wait for your apology. If you are man enough.

[bobblehead]

outflow-

Give it a rest. You asked for reasons and Bobble gave them to you. Twice.

You really think his first attempt at reasoning was acceptable?

You sir are an idiot...no 2 ways about it. You made an over the top statement and now are pulling a tyrone bigguns and trying to change the debate every step of the way.

You said no way in hell this team can go 10-6. you are wrong, plain and simple. I agree it isn't likely, but certain things can and do click with different teams every season.

Not only was my first "attempt" at reasoning acceptable, it flat out beat your argument so you tried to change the debate. When my second "attempt" was asserted you simply try and tell me that those things CAN NOT HAPPEN. Even a 10 year old can see the flaw in your logic.

I have said over and over its not likely, but we are fans. We like to be optimistic. We want hope.

For the last time, I don't THINK we are going 10-6, but if you tell me its not possible you are using over the top rhetoric and you will continue to open your mouth and prove yourself the fool.

Listen up dipshit. If you are arguing with Outflow there is no reason to bring up my name.

Show me ONCE in a thread about FOOTBALL where i've changed the debate.

Ty could say the very same thing about you...and your ridiculous theories on MM and his marriage that you continue to throw out there with NO evidence whatsoever.

And, your ridiculous successful coaches aren't married...which you then HEDGED on completely.

Show a little bit of class. There is no reason to mention my name in your little tiff.

I'll wait for your apology. If you are man enough.

Ty, you certainly don't do it in football posts other than maybe the cedric benson thread way back when. Many posters will agree that you do it constantly in the FYI, but I meant no disrespect by bringing your name into this. I did so as an example of you what you like to do in political debates, and you do, like it or not.

You say I hedged, I say I clarified...immediately no less, but you continued to mischaracterize what I said.

Between the two of us I'm the only one who has ever admitted to being wrong no matter how wrong you get proven at times. Like outflow here, you like to take way out there positions and then use debate skills to defend them at times (mostly in FYI). Since I almost never disagree with you on football it doesn't happen here much if at all.

If you want an apology for me citing what you most certainly do do (and anyone who posts in FYI can attest to it) you won't get it. If you want me to apologize for needlessly bringing up your name, ok, sorry about that bud, thought you had thicker skin than that, my bad.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

outflow-

Give it a rest. You asked for reasons and Bobble gave them to you. Twice.

You really think his first attempt at reasoning was acceptable?

You sir are an idiot...no 2 ways about it. You made an over the top statement and now are pulling a tyrone bigguns and trying to change the debate every step of the way.

You said no way in hell this team can go 10-6. you are wrong, plain and simple. I agree it isn't likely, but certain things can and do click with different teams every season.

Not only was my first "attempt" at reasoning acceptable, it flat out beat your argument so you tried to change the debate. When my second "attempt" was asserted you simply try and tell me that those things CAN NOT HAPPEN. Even a 10 year old can see the flaw in your logic.

I have said over and over its not likely, but we are fans. We like to be optimistic. We want hope.

For the last time, I don't THINK we are going 10-6, but if you tell me its not possible you are using over the top rhetoric and you will continue to open your mouth and prove yourself the fool.

Listen up dipshit. If you are arguing with Outflow there is no reason to bring up my name.

Show me ONCE in a thread about FOOTBALL where i've changed the debate.

Ty could say the very same thing about you...and your ridiculous theories on MM and his marriage that you continue to throw out there with NO evidence whatsoever.

And, your ridiculous successful coaches aren't married...which you then HEDGED on completely.

Show a little bit of class. There is no reason to mention my name in your little tiff.

I'll wait for your apology. If you are man enough.

Ty, you certainly don't do it in football posts other than maybe the cedric benson thread way back when. Many posters will agree that you do it constantly in the FYI, but I meant no disrespect by bringing your name into this. I did so as an example of you what you like to do in political debates, and you do, like it or not.

You say I hedged, I say I clarified...immediately no less, but you continued to mischaracterize what I said.

Between the two of us I'm the only one who has ever admitted to being wrong no matter how wrong you get proven at times. Like outflow here, you like to take way out there positions and then use debate skills to defend them at times (mostly in FYI). Since I almost never disagree with you on football it doesn't happen here much if at all.

If you want an apology for me citing what you most certainly do do (and anyone who posts in FYI can attest to it) you won't get it. If you want me to apologize for needlessly bringing up your name, ok, sorry about that bud, thought you had thicker skin than that, my bad.

1. Many posters. Translation: Conservative posters.
2. Clarified. Translation: Changed the debate. When Ty does it, it is changing the debate, when bobble does it...it is clarifying.

And, i certainly didn't mischaracterize.

3. Positions. Sorry, but you are wrong. I don't "take" anything. I believe what i write.
4. Apology. I'll accept your meager mea culpa. How about whenever someone makes a ridiculous assertion without any basis i just call it bobbling?

Once again, the man who claims superior values has been shown to lack in basic values.

[Fritz]

If this team finishes 10-6 and wins a playoff game, there will be hope for next year.

[denverYooper]

If this team finishes 10-6 and wins a playoff game, there will be hope for next year.

Agree, especially since they'll have to get some quality wins to hit 10-6.

[pbmax]

I am doubling down and staying with the captain of this ship. No reason to bail now, there will be plenty of time to deconstruct failure if it comes to that during the playoffs. Plenty of time for coach speculation too.

I predicted 12-3-1 after being influenced by preseason fever. It would seem the best we can do is 12-4. So I will be off by half a game.

That's right. Packers are going 8-0 second half. TJ Lang, future Pro Football Hall of Fame!

[retailguy]

I am doubling down and staying with the captain of this ship. No reason to bail now, there will be plenty of time to deconstruct failure if it comes to that during the playoffs. Plenty of time for coach speculation too.

I predicted 12-3-1 after being influenced by preseason fever. It would seem the best we can do is 12-4. So I will be off by half a game.

That's right. Packers are going 8-0 second half. TJ Lang, future Pro Football Hall of Fame!

I've been looking for my kool-aid. I knew I'd find it. Hand it over!

[MJZiggy]

I am doubling down and staying with the captain of this ship. No reason to bail now, there will be plenty of time to deconstruct failure if it comes to that during the playoffs. Plenty of time for coach speculation too.

I predicted 12-3-1 after being influenced by preseason fever. It would seem the best we can do is 12-4. So I will be off by half a game.

That's right. Packers are going 8-0 second half. TJ Lang, future Pro Football Hall of Fame!

I've been looking for my kool-aid. I knew I'd find it. Hand it over!

Just make sure when he gives it to you, it's not grape...