Arod is a Loser. Stats Do Not Lie.

[sharpe1027]

Aaron has beat the following teams since more than 5 games of footage were available of him.

- The 0-16 Lions (including this year).
- Squeeked by the Bears after Cutler threw the game away in 4 picks
- The St. Louis Rams, which are up there with Detroit as the laughing stock of the NFL
- The Cleveland Browns, the laughing stock of the NFL.

Possibly one or two other teams. I don't have the statistics in front of me so I don't remember.

Tell me, by this reasoning, shouldn't we get rid of Al Harris or Nick Barnett?

It doesn't matter. Either it was just a joke or the position has been taken, and nothing you say or do will matter. Might as well just accept it.

Back to snake's point.

Snake must state...ARod is a top ten QB talent wise....but his pocket savvy and release is really poor.

I can see where you are coming from. However, a pocket sense means you have a sense for what your linemen are doing and where the pressure is coming from. Usually it involves having a pocket to step up into and lanes to throw. For that reason, I think even Favre, one of the best, would look lost back there.

I am not saying Rodgers isn't part of the problem. I am just saying that he might not be as bad as he looks.

I would also reserve judgement until I could see receivers, including the dump-off man. Frankly, if I was playing that packers, I would be sure to take away the dump-off pass and then count on getting pressure to protect against anything down-the-field.

[pbmax]

Where did this thought come from that there is a problem with Rodgers release? Source anyone?

We aren't talking about how long he holds the ball, people seem to be saying his throwing motion is slow, like Leftwich.

[Partial]

Aaron has beat the following teams since more than 5 games of footage were available of him.

- The 0-16 Lions (including this year).
- Squeeked by the Bears after Cutler threw the game away in 4 picks
- The St. Louis Rams, which are up there with Detroit as the laughing stock of the NFL
- The Cleveland Browns, the laughing stock of the NFL.

Possibly one or two other teams. I don't have the statistics in front of me so I don't remember.

Tell me, by this reasoning, shouldn't we get rid of Al Harris or Nick Barnett?

I don't think we should get rid of ARod. I was making a joke. Jeez. He's the best option we have now, but from what the media is saying that may not be for long.

He's probably the 12th best quarterback in the NFL imo. Until we have someone >12 no sense in moving on.

[Smidgeon]

Snake, I don't dislike Aaron I just see him for what he is. He has the physical talents to be a very solid NFL qb, but so did Ryan Leaf. He hasn't won games, and when the pressure is on to make a play, he hasn't done it so far. Will he ever learn to? It's his 5th year so I doubt it, but maybe. Hopefully.

Did you even read my post about QBs' winning record in their first two years and how it means jack? Not their rookie year and the one after, but their first two years starting more than one game. Your assessment about AR's ability to win is premature. For your viewing pleasure, the information once again:

QBs who didn't have a winning record either of their first two years starting more than one game:

Bart Starr, Fran Tarkenton, Joe Namath, Bob Griese, Terry Bradshaw, Dan Fouts, Warren Moon, Steve Young, Jim Kelly, and Troy Aikman

Their collective accomplishments:
* 10 HOFers
* 16 NFL championships (including 3 pre-Super Bowl by Starr)
* 8 Regular season MVPs
* 2 Regular season AFL MVPs (by Namath)
* 6 Super Bowl MVPs
* 26 Pro Bowl appearances
* 6 AFL All Star appearances (by Namath and Griese)
* the only player to be in both the NFL HOF and the Canadian HOF (Moon)
* the only QB to guide his team to 4 consecutive Super Bowls (Kelly)

By the way, for point of comparison to AR, Steve Young was in his 8th year when he had his first winning season after taking over in SF.

For those of you who want to see the original post.

[Partial]

Snake, I don't dislike Aaron I just see him for what he is. He has the physical talents to be a very solid NFL qb, but so did Ryan Leaf. He hasn't won games, and when the pressure is on to make a play, he hasn't done it so far. Will he ever learn to? It's his 5th year so I doubt it, but maybe. Hopefully.

Did you even read my post about QBs' winning record in their first two years and how it means jack? Not their rookie year and the one after, but their first two years starting more than one game. Your assessment about AR's ability to win is premature. For your viewing pleasure, the information once again:

QBs who didn't have a winning record either of their first two years starting more than one game:

Bart Starr, Fran Tarkenton, Joe Namath, Bob Griese, Terry Bradshaw, Dan Fouts, Warren Moon, Steve Young, Jim Kelly, and Troy Aikman

Their collective accomplishments:
* 10 HOFers
* 16 NFL championships (including 3 pre-Super Bowl by Starr)
* 8 Regular season MVPs
* 2 Regular season AFL MVPs (by Namath)
* 6 Super Bowl MVPs
* 26 Pro Bowl appearances
* 6 AFL All Star appearances (by Namath and Griese)
* the only player to be in both the NFL HOF and the Canadian HOF (Moon)
* the only QB to guide his team to 4 consecutive Super Bowls (Kelly)

By the way, Steve Young was in his 8th year when he had his first winning season after taking over in SF.

For those of you who want to see the original post.

Can't disregard that data but I just don't see it in ARod. How many of those guys road the pine for 3 years? Different eras, too.

[Smidgeon]

Can't disregard that data but I just don't see it in ARod. How many of those guys road the pine for 3 years? Different eras, too.

So when did the current era begin? And how are you qualified to say that you don't see it in AR? What is your expertise there?

[Partial]

Can't disregard that data but I just don't see it in ARod. How many of those guys road the pine for 3 years? Different eras, too.

So when did the current era begin? And how are you qualified to say that you don't see it in AR? What is your expertise there?

I'm not qualified. The opinion is my own. I don't have the time to look up the data on eras, but there were clearly less teams when Starr played, did you count Moon's AFL years or just NFL? What about the other guys? I'm not some football historian I'm 24 so I don't know when all those jbros played.

[Smidgeon]

Can't disregard that data but I just don't see it in ARod. How many of those guys road the pine for 3 years? Different eras, too.

So when did the current era begin? And how are you qualified to say that you don't see it in AR? What is your expertise there?

I'm not qualified. The opinion is my own. I don't have the time to look up the data on eras, but there were clearly less teams when Starr played, did you count Moon's AFL years or just NFL? What about the other guys? I'm not some football historian I'm 24 so I don't know when all those jbros played.

Fair enough. Would you personally consider Aikman and Steve Young part of this era?

[Partial]

Yes.

[Smidgeon]

Yes.

My only point, and the reason I've been bringing it up is that there isn't a correlation between how good a QB ends up being and his winning record his first couple of years. Sure, bad QBs couldn't win their first couple years, but neither could most of the greatest of all time. It took Steve Young until his 8th year to really QB a great team. He was drafted by the Buccaneers who had a bad team. I think AR's got a middling team: a lot of talent but little consistency. I would rather have "just a stats" guy who's shown he can get those TDs in the NFL than have a college stats guy who can't do jack in the NFL. AR is in his fifth year in the NFL, but only his second year starting. You have to give him time and a solid team. QBs like Favre, Manning, and Brady that can single handedly make their receivers pro-bowlers are rare. Most QBs need a solid team. That's why it's too early to give up on AR. Because he's giving the stats now, it shows he can do it even while he's getting mugged on every play. Now imagine what happens when he's got a little more experience and a much better line: the wins will follow. Just be a little more patient.

[retailguy]

amen. well said.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Colts had a worse line than ours. LOL

Ryan Diem- better.
Jeff Saturday - 3x pro bowl, 2x all pro...better
Tony ugoh - better
Mike Pollak- better

Do you actually follow football?

4 new starters last year. Line was a sieve. Did you watch football? Stat numbers won't really count since Manning gets rid of the ball....

Wow, do you reallly not recall how terrible that line was at the start of last year?!? It was beyond awful.

Um, Saturday wasn't new. Ugoh wasn't new. Diem wasn't new.

Fail.

But, you are making my point. At the start of the year. Lines need time to gel.

[Partial]

Colts had a worse line than ours. LOL

Ryan Diem- better.
Jeff Saturday - 3x pro bowl, 2x all pro...better
Tony ugoh - better
Mike Pollak- better

Do you actually follow football?

4 new starters last year. Line was a sieve. Did you watch football? Stat numbers won't really count since Manning gets rid of the ball....

Wow, do you reallly not recall how terrible that line was at the start of last year?!? It was beyond awful.

Um, Saturday wasn't new. Ugoh wasn't new. Diem wasn't new.

Fail.

But, you are making my point. At the start of the year. Lines need time to gel.

They were clearly injured at the start of the year, then, because I distinctly remember listening to how Peyton was running for his life since they had 4 new linemen starting.

Saturday: missed 4 games

Ugoh: Started 12 games last year, was benched this year from

Diem did start all 16, so he must have been the one returning linemen to open the season.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Colts had a worse line than ours. LOL

Ryan Diem- better.
Jeff Saturday - 3x pro bowl, 2x all pro...better
Tony ugoh - better
Mike Pollak- better

Do you actually follow football?

4 new starters last year. Line was a sieve. Did you watch football? Stat numbers won't really count since Manning gets rid of the ball....

Wow, do you reallly not recall how terrible that line was at the start of last year?!? It was beyond awful.

Um, Saturday wasn't new. Ugoh wasn't new. Diem wasn't new.

Fail.

But, you are making my point. At the start of the year. Lines need time to gel.

They were clearly injured at the start of the year, then, because I distinctly remember listening to how Peyton was running for his life since they had 4 new linemen starting.

Saturday: missed 4 games

Ugoh: Started 12 games last year, was benched this year from

Diem did start all 16, so he must have been the one returning linemen to open the season.

Wait, you mean you are taking in allowance for injury? Seems eerily similar to a packer team with injured starters in spitz and clifton. Not to mention last year's starter at RT being injured.

Since we judge a line on the season, the colt's line was better.

Fail.

[channtheman]

Love it! The very thing that Partial hates about packerrats, I love!