Packers D to Decline in 2010?

[packerbacker1234]

I think why people are more impressed with Revis is due to his age, and the fact he is shutting guys down in a new era, where WR's are virtually not allowed to be touched.

Playing in the largest NFL market instead of the smallest probably helps a little too.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/rumors/post/Dallas-most-popular-NFL-team-Jags-least?urn=nfl,47568

Packers are like, the 4th most popular franchise in the entire country. AKA, the United States is our market. Were also regularily at the top of merchandise sales among all NFL teams. Oh, and almost any prime time game featuring the packers ends up being right at the top most watched and rated games of the season

AKA: They can have their market, we have the country.

[get louder at lambeau]

I think why people are more impressed with Revis is due to his age, and the fact he is shutting guys down in a new era, where WR's are virtually not allowed to be touched.

Playing in the largest NFL market instead of the smallest probably helps a little too.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/rumors/post/Dallas-most-popular-NFL-team-Jags-least?urn=nfl,47568

Packers are like, the 4th most popular franchise in the entire country. AKA, the United States is our market. Were also regularily at the top of merchandise sales among all NFL teams. Oh, and almost any prime time game featuring the packers ends up being right at the top most watched and rated games of the season

AKA: They can have their market, we have the country.

I'm well aware of the popularity of the franchise, but when Revis shuts someone down, it's in the New York Times. Harris does it, it's reported in the Green Bay Press Gazette, with the headline being about Brent Faver.

[packerbacker1234]

I think why people are more impressed with Revis is due to his age, and the fact he is shutting guys down in a new era, where WR's are virtually not allowed to be touched.

Playing in the largest NFL market instead of the smallest probably helps a little too.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/rumors/post/Dallas-most-popular-NFL-team-Jags-least?urn=nfl,47568

Packers are like, the 4th most popular franchise in the entire country. AKA, the United States is our market. Were also regularily at the top of merchandise sales among all NFL teams. Oh, and almost any prime time game featuring the packers ends up being right at the top most watched and rated games of the season

AKA: They can have their market, we have the country.

I'm well aware of the popularity of the franchise, but when Revis shuts someone down, it's in the New York Times. Harris does it, it's reported in the Green Bay Press Gazette, with the headline being about Brent Faver.

We have increasingly gotten coverage though on the national stage - ESPN, NFL Network, etc. They like to talk about whats popular. Yankees/Red Sox gets so much coverage there because they are popular. Green Bay coverage has slowly been increasing over the years. Sure, no NY Times post, but there may be an ESPN article about it. Would say that coverage is about equals out.

AR certaintly has gotten a lot of coverage the last 2 seasons, but that may or may not be attributed to the guy who played before him.

[RashanGary]

AR is this years #1 fantasy QB according to just about everyone. That means people think he's going to put up the best numbers of any QB in the league. If these people have any clue what they're talking about, AR has to be a front runner for the MVP when those odds come out too.

I'd say AR is earning his respect.

[RashanGary]

When Bert was here, we were told how he made Driver what he is, how he made every receiver he ever played with what they were.

In steps first year AR and Driver is just as good. Jennings gets better, Grant stays the same, and a TE emerges that is more effective than any one Brett has played with.

Bert goes to the Vikings and Peterson goes from one of the greatest players in the NFL at any position, to a goat. His numbers go down, his fumbles go up. Barrian isn't any better with Favre than he was with Groosman.


If AR is the #1 fantasy QB, if he wins an MVP, none of that has anything to do with Brett Favre. That has to do with Aaron Rodgers being a great player. The same thing happens to every player Brett plays with. Driver is so/so, but has Brett throwing to him. Peterson goes from a probably HOF running back to the goat of the season when Brett is the one who choked it away. Any team Brett's on, any team associated with him everythign they do well is because of Brett. Everything Brett does wrong is because of them. With some people in GB, Brett has to be the most overrated player to ever play in Green Bay.

[Tony Oday]

When Bert was here, we were told how he made Driver what he is, how he made every receiver he ever played with what they were.

In steps first year AR and Driver is just as good. Jennings gets better, Grant stays the same, and a TE emerges that is more effective than any one Brett has played with.

Bert goes to the Vikings and Peterson goes from one of the greatest players in the NFL at any position, to a goat. His numbers go down, his fumbles go up. Barrian isn't any better with Favre than he was with Groosman.


If AR is the #1 fantasy QB, if he wins an MVP, none of that has anything to do with Brett Favre. That has to do with Aaron Rodgers being a great player. The same thing happens to every player Brett plays with. Driver is so/so, but has Brett throwing to him. Peterson goes from a probably HOF running back to the goat of the season when Brett is the one who choked it away. Any team Brett's on, any team associated with him everythign they do well is because of Brett. Everything Brett does wrong is because of them. With some people in GB, Brett has to be the most overrated player to ever play in Green Bay.

no Favre apologist but Rice is an emerging star

[get louder at lambeau]

When Bert was here, we were told how he made Driver what he is, how he made every receiver he ever played with what they were.

In steps first year AR and Driver is just as good. Jennings gets better, Grant stays the same, and a TE emerges that is more effective than any one Brett has played with.

Bert goes to the Vikings and Peterson goes from one of the greatest players in the NFL at any position, to a goat. His numbers go down, his fumbles go up. Barrian isn't any better with Favre than he was with Groosman.


If AR is the #1 fantasy QB, if he wins an MVP, none of that has anything to do with Brett Favre. That has to do with Aaron Rodgers being a great player. The same thing happens to every player Brett plays with. Driver is so/so, but has Brett throwing to him. Peterson goes from a probably HOF running back to the goat of the season when Brett is the one who choked it away. Any team Brett's on, any team associated with him everythign they do well is because of Brett. Everything Brett does wrong is because of them. With some people in GB, Brett has to be the most overrated player to ever play in Green Bay.

no Favre apologist but Rice is an emerging star

I think you missed JH's point- that it's because of Rice, not Favre, just like Driver's emergence was because of Driver, not Favre.

[packerbacker1234]

When Bert was here, we were told how he made Driver what he is, how he made every receiver he ever played with what they were.

In steps first year AR and Driver is just as good. Jennings gets better, Grant stays the same, and a TE emerges that is more effective than any one Brett has played with.

Bert goes to the Vikings and Peterson goes from one of the greatest players in the NFL at any position, to a goat. His numbers go down, his fumbles go up. Barrian isn't any better with Favre than he was with Groosman.


If AR is the #1 fantasy QB, if he wins an MVP, none of that has anything to do with Brett Favre. That has to do with Aaron Rodgers being a great player. The same thing happens to every player Brett plays with. Driver is so/so, but has Brett throwing to him. Peterson goes from a probably HOF running back to the goat of the season when Brett is the one who choked it away. Any team Brett's on, any team associated with him everythign they do well is because of Brett. Everything Brett does wrong is because of them. With some people in GB, Brett has to be the most overrated player to ever play in Green Bay.

No offense intended but...

http://www.nfl.com/players/adrianpeterson/profile?id=PET260705

His fumbles actually went down. He had 50 less carries (understandable, they passed the ball more) , 8 more TD runs, 1300+ yards, and 4.4 yards per carry.

Adrian Peterson has been in the league 3 seasons, and last year was a damn good season for any RB. Did anyone really think he was going to have close to 1800 yards again just because he had a QB who could throw the ball? ALl they did the year before was hand to him on every down. Ask LT what that is like - his best years were when he got the ball all the time, and it wore him down. Keep in mind, AP also increased his catches by 22 and passing yards by 300, which all then makes up for any loss in rushing yards.

So, AP went to being a goat? really? Last I checked, he was still one of the best players in the NFL last season. He can't help it that his QB put up MVP numbers so his didn't look as impressive, even though they really were impressive still. If grant had those numbers, would we even be talking about wanting another RB ever?

[Pugger]

Peterson is one of the best RBs to come around but Grant isn't exactly chopped liver either. His last stat is the best.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=RUSHING&conference=null&season=2009&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=RUSHING_YARDS&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1

[RashanGary]

No offense intended but...

http://www.nfl.com/players/adrianpeterson/profile?id=PET260705

His fumbles actually went down. He had 50 less carries (understandable, they passed the ball more) , 8 more TD runs, 1300+ yards, and 4.4 yards per carry.

Adrian Peterson has been in the league 3 seasons, and last year was a damn good season for any RB. Did anyone really think he was going to have close to 1800 yards again just because he had a QB who could throw the ball? ALl they did the year before was hand to him on every down. Ask LT what that is like - his best years were when he got the ball all the time, and it wore him down. Keep in mind, AP also increased his catches by 22 and passing yards by 300, which all then makes up for any loss in rushing yards.

So, AP went to being a goat? really? Last I checked, he was still one of the best players in the NFL last season. He can't help it that his QB put up MVP numbers so his didn't look as impressive, even though they really were impressive still. If grant had those numbers, would we even be talking about wanting another RB ever?

None taken. Go to footballsfuture.com Vikign board. There are more posts about Peterson's fumbles costing the game than Favre's interceptions. There are jokes on ESPN about Peterson "dropping" Favre's grandchild the way he dropped the ball in the playoff games where Favre is getting a free pass.

You've done nothing to refute my point. Players who were good with Favre are just as good or better before or after him (see Sharpe, Kieth Jackson, Rison, Donald Driver, Greg Jennings, Adrian Peterson, Ryan Grant, Coles, Cotchery). And whenever Favre retires, Rice will still be great. . .

The whole fantasy that many Packer fans had about Favre is just not supported by the facts.

He was fortunate to be on a team with ownership that from the top down, has put people in jobs that they can succeed at and has not meddled with football decisions. Because of that, they've had really good GM's that have veen able to do their jobs (Wolf, Thompson). They'll be good for many years after Brett just as they were good with him.

Favre's durability and accountability were both amazing. Those are individual accomplishments that can't be knocked. But to credit him for much of the Packers (or Vikings for that matter) success on offense, that's just not realistic. He was very lucky, the teams he was blessed to play on and has taken way more credit away from great players than one work-lunch post can bring light to.

[Joemailman]

Doesn't the Favre talk belong in the Favre thread?

Hard to predict how everything will shake out on defense. However, I do think there are more guys likely to be better than there are guys likely to be worse. If Al declines, the big question is whether they have someone (Lee, Underwood, Blackmon) to adequately fill the nickel back role. They didn't last year, but then they didn't have Blackmon and Lee due to injuries. If the Packers end up at sometime this season with Jarrett Bush at nickel, it will be fair to say that TT did not do his job. I'm reasonably confident that won't happen though.

Blackmon got moved to safety so they're probably no longer considering him as an option for nickle. It seems to me that, based on that switch, they must either be confident that Underwood or Bell will be ready to play at a decent level (hard to imagine having a great deal of confidence in Lee at this point given his recent history) or they think more of Bush than most Packer fans do. Does anyone know if Underwood was cleared for the May OTA? If he was, then the fact that Bush was ahead of him is just a little bit concerning.

I think the move of Blackmon to safety does mean that they believe that Lee, Underwood or Bell could handle nickel. However, Blackmon played well at nickel in 2008 when Harris was hurt. I think they would move him there if they feel they need to. the nickel position is more important that the #4 Safety position.

[HarveyWallbangers]

His fumbles actually went down. He had 50 less carries (understandable, they passed the ball more) , 8 more TD runs, 1300+ yards, and 4.4 yards per carry.

Just to get the facts out there (I don't really care enough about the argument being made):

His fumble rate remained steady. His total fumbles were down from the year before, but as you stated he had less carries. He's consistently fumbled about every 50 touches since he got into the league.

His TD runs were more of the short yardage variety--mainly because the Vikings had a competent QB who got them in the redzone more.

His 4.4 yards/carry was by far a career low. His career yards/carry was 5.2 before last year.

I don't think there's a Viking fan out there who doesn't think he had a poor year compared to his first two years. Minus the TDs, his rushing numbers were eerily similar to Ryan Grant--and not Adrian Peterson from his first two years. Before last year, AP was a God in Vikings land. After last season, there is a small clamoring to trade him while his value is still high.

[RashanGary]

Brad Childeress on how teams approached the Vikings 2009 offense, "Somewhere, you have to take something (away). Generally with us, at least from what I’ve seen, they’re going to approach it from the standpoint of trying to get an eighth guy in the box."


Teams geared up to stop Peterson. I'd love to see Rodgers with Peterson. Rodgers already puts up better numbers tahn FAvre with a lesser Ol and RB. I'd love to see Rodgers with the best RB adn the Vikigns OL. Teams gear up to stop Rodgers 1st with the Packers. We rarely, if ever, see 8 in the box.

[sharpe1027]

Brad Childeress on how teams approached the Vikings 2009 offense, "Somewhere, you have to take something (away). Generally with us, at least from what I’ve seen, they’re going to approach it from the standpoint of trying to get an eighth guy in the box."

Teams geared up to stop Peterson. I'd love to see Rodgers with Peterson. Rodgers already puts up better numbers tahn FAvre with a lesser Ol and RB. I'd love to see Rodgers with the best RB adn the Vikigns OL. Teams gear up to stop Rodgers 1st with the Packers. We rarely, if ever, see 8 in the box.

True, but to play devils-advocate, Rodgers has better receiving threats and (IMO) is in an offense that tends to produce bigger numbers.

[RashanGary]

Rice is going to be a superstar for many years. Finley is going to be great, but last year Shiancoe was better. Barrian is a good player. Harvin is a good player.

Rice > Jennings IMO
Driver > Barrian IMO
Harvin > Jones IMO
Shiancoe last year > super young Finley although Finley has flashed signs of near future greatness.


I don't think the weapons were all that different. Throw Peterson and a better OL and it's a no brainer who has a better supporting cast. Rodgers is in a really good situation, no doubt. They're comparable situations really. But Peterson is the best player on either team and tips it largely in the Vikings favor.

To me, the way Rodgers played the 2nd half of the season, he's our big difference maker the way Peterson is theirs.