Bad locker room in Miami?

[Kiwon]

Here is one for Kiwon, two teammates that do not believe Incognito is a racist: http://nypost.com/2013/11/06/dolphin...hie-incognito/

More than two, try several, and they're not afraid of saying so publicly. And they considered him “an honorary black man”. How do you get that title? By knowing how to get along well with your teammates, the majority of whom are...(gasp)......Black. Thus, my repeated point, a White racist doesn't last 9 years in the NFL.

Team is team, especially among veterans. These guys train, travel, practice and play together. They fight for each other. They see each other for enormous amounts of time and under very, very stressful situations filled with highs and lows. As one player said of Incognito, "He’s a guy I’m with more than my own family, so I know what type of guy he is, and he’s not a racist.” I'll take his word for it.

In war, the first three reports from the battlefield are wrong. A lot of times, I think the same applies to Sports media as well.

[Fritz]

Wow. How did Joe Philbin let this happen?

[Joemailman]

For those of you who have been very critical of Martin, if this report is true, and the GM was aware and offered the solution of a physical confrontation; does your opinion about Martin's ultimate action change?

This situation gets more and more strange with each passing day. I don't see either Incognito or Martin ever playing there again. I would say that Ireland and Philbin will both be gone, but I thought NO might be forced to a housecleaning too, and they weren't. Of course there is a big difference, Ireland & Philbin haven't demonstrated enough on-field success to trump the negative publicity being generated. In NO, they had.

I do believe that Incognito may have been clueless, and that Martin may not be of the preferred personality/temperment for an NFL team, but that is where leadership failed. It is the responsibility of coaches and team leaders to bring a very diverse group of personalities into a team structure. They failed, apparently.

If this report is true, Ireland's job is probably in trouble. If a new GM is brought in, he's probably going to want to bring his own coach in. What a strange story.

[Infamous]

Young man either has borderline personality disorder, post traumatic stress d/o or generalized anxiety d/o resulting from homosexuality

[Infamous]

and Incognito could be a "reformed" racist; having held on to ignorant beliefs stemming from household dynamics and early childhood socio-economic status particulars that have been dispelled as he matriculated through early adulthood and been exposed to "cool" African folk

[George Cumby]

Things have taken a turn for the surreal.

[KYPack]

In a related story, Greg Schiano sent Joe Philbin a box of candy with a note, thanking Joe for turning the media spotlight away from his ass.

[denverYooper]

What we have here is a failure, to communicate.

Sources: Ireland suggested that Martin confront Incognito physically

Jeff Ireland, in a conversation with Martin's agent proposed that Martin confront Incognito, this would be prior to his departure last month. Punch him, is what the advice was.

So, was Incognito clueless enough to think Martin saw him as a friend? Was Martin friendless enough that prominent teammates could mistake the relationship for a friendship?


You know all the talk and work Rodgers puts into getting to know the players so he can effectively lead and communicate with them? He should get a raise.

They're giving him a few weeks off. What more could he want?

[denverYooper]

yes, entirely possible.

I also wouldn't be surprised if Incognito is super creepy. Maybe he likes to lurk around wearing disguises.

I'm not taking any firm position until Greg Jennings weighs in.

#BeGreat

[Tony Oday]

No we have to ignore first hand witnesses and stick with the big bad man bullied the poor "Big Weirdo" bullies are bad and he was bullied by the bad man, he wouldn't let him play in any dolphin games.

DEATH TO INCOGNITO

Nah it's cool we know in this day and age people have a problem with other people if they are not handing them a trophy.

[denverYooper]

No we have to ignore first hand witnesses and stick with the big bad man bullied the poor "Big Weirdo" bullies are bad and he was bullied by the bad man, he wouldn't let him play in any dolphin games.

DEATH TO INCOGNITO

Nah it's cool we know in this day and age people have a problem with other people if they are not handing them a trophy.

Is this trophy business a real thing? I mean, my kids are just starting out in sports and all but no one handed my daughter a trophy for coming in last in her first running race.

[pbmax]

More than two, try several, and they're not afraid of saying so publicly. And they considered him “an honorary black man”. How do you get that title? By knowing how to get along well with your teammates, the majority of whom are...(gasp)......Black. Thus, my repeated point, a White racist doesn't last 9 years in the NFL.

Team is team, especially among veterans. These guys train, travel, practice and play together. They fight for each other. They see each other for enormous amounts of time and under very, very stressful situations filled with highs and lows. As one player said of Incognito, "He’s a guy I’m with more than my own family, so I know what type of guy he is, and he’s not a racist.” I'll take his word for it.

In war, the first three reports from the battlefield are wrong. A lot of times, I think the same applies to Sports media as well.

Kiwon, the title honorary black man is as meaningless as it is nebulous. Was there a vote? What is the list of qualifications? Given the meaning in the locker room, does every African-American on the team even qualify? Can 1,2 or 5 Arfrican-Ameican men decide what it and isn't racism for others? Its reductive and ridiculous. The use of the slur in the voicemail mail makes it clear Incognito doesn't understand context because that is not a conversational colloquialism. And it appears that Martin did not accept it as a good natured jibe.

I agree completely with your second paragraph and I suspect that is why so many, perhaps expectedly, defend Incognito. But let's be clear. Their statements are also defending themselves against charges that they are miscreants that allowed this kind of behavior to occur. So there is a lot of self-interest here, especially against the charge of racism. It is odd that I have not seen anyone ask about the Vegas trip because legally, I would be more worried about extortion.

I think the first three reports of Martin's trouble were one, left the team, two, that he felt bullied and harassed and third was the Vegas trip. None of those are incorrect as we know the situation today. You cannot take Martin's actions and make a determination of fault based solely on whether charges of racism stick. Its obviously a lot more complicated than that.

[pbmax]

For those of you who have been very critical of Martin, if this report is true, and the GM was aware and offered the solution of a physical confrontation; does your opinion about Martin's ultimate action change?

This situation gets more and more strange with each passing day. I don't see either Incognito or Martin ever playing there again. I would say that Ireland and Philbin will both be gone, but I thought NO might be forced to a housecleaning too, and they weren't. Of course there is a big difference, Ireland & Philbin haven't demonstrated enough on-field success to trump the negative publicity being generated. In NO, they had.

I do believe that Incognito may have been clueless, and that Martin may not be of the preferred personality/temperment for an NFL team, but that is where leadership failed. It is the responsibility of coaches and team leaders to bring a very diverse group of personalities into a team structure. They failed, apparently.

I think its clear the entire team was clueless about the trouble they had. And Martin's social behavior fed that obliviousness and misinformation.

PFT said they had several sources. If Ireland offered that advice he may have authored his own departure. However, given how common that advice has been among players, I would not be entirely surprised if the entire organization simply gets to attend a seminar.

[pbmax]

Might be the best inside look I have seen. From a former teammate of both (though he was only with Martin for an offseason and a camp):

http://mmqb.si.com/2013/11/07/richie-incognito-jonathan-martin-dolphins-lydon-murtha/

Essentially? Martin was treated largely as the rest of the Offensive lineman were. But he suspects Incognito did not read, as Murtha did, that Martin did not respond well to the same kind of grief common among teammates on the Dolphins. He was shy and standoffish from the start.

- Martin objected to the rookie dinner deal
- Incognito crossed a line with the voice mail that Murtha cannot condone
- Martin backed out of the Vegas trip after initially committing. Money was spent on his behalf and the $15K was his share. Not sure how he knows this as fact as he seems to have been gone by the end of Martin's rookie camp.
- Does not buy the notion that the coaches did not know. Coaches often ask players to draw other out of their shells.


However, a Stanford O lineman alum isn't buying Murtha's tale in whole.
Ben Muth @FO_wordofmuth 1h
Dont think MMQB couldve found a less credible source than a Nebraska alum who played LT & got cut 5 months after Martins arrival

[pbmax]

And on the racial front, it appears not all African-Amercians are buying the free card of "honorary black man". Incognito also seems to have a history with being a specific kind of jackass.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/dolphins/2013/11/06/miami-dolphins-richie-incognito-jonathan-martin-racial-slur-indefensible-jarrett-bell-column/3459833/

A former Dolphins player quoted by The Herald contended that within the team's locker room, Incognito is considered an "honorary" black man -- which presumably allows him to live in a world with white privilege and use disparaging racial epithets as he sees fit.

"Honorary brother, my ass," said Sapp. "Yeah, and an 'honorary white guy' (who is black) walking around in some places in Mississippi still has to be gone by sundown."

Sapp said that Incognito, then with the St. Louis Rams, called him the N-word during a game. He was offended, but saw it as a psychological ploy in the trenches.

"I said, 'Cuz, you want me to slap the (expletive) out of you and get thrown out of the game. But I'm going to assault your quarterback and they're going to cut your (expletive),' " Sapp recalled. "That's just how he plays. He's a piece of (expletive)."