So,...what should the Packers do about Mike Neal????

[pbmax]

what do you mean by that PB?

not fat enough, or not tall enough?

i don't see anything in the draft that looks like a decent NT

however, there is one free agent that just jumped off the screen at me, and he wouldn't cost a lot. a guy i loved coming out of college, but its never clicked in the pros

mount cody is a free agent

thats a guy that can eat up multiple blockers. i saw him push back a quadruple team in college

Not stout enough. Both are listed at 6' 2". You could go taller and get Wilfork (also need more weight) or shorter and get Hayward at the same weight.

Both Pickett (in his youth) and Raji (current) were considered more penetrators and playmakers than stout NT, unmovable NT.

Pickett sort of morphed into an unmovable object for a few years but he has been getting shoved around in the last couple of years. Even in 2010, Raji has not been stout enough for NT in run D.

[pbmax]

I'd settle for 6'4" or 6'5". Just stick of these squatty bastards. The taller they are, the longer arms they are. Natural power. I have never been a fan of the short NTs some around here like. I recall discussing with Lurker about how he thought it was desireable. I don't really think that it is. Jay Ratliff was quite tall, for example, and there have been many stud NTs that are tall. John Henderson is one that comes to mind. When they are tall with long arms, weight is less of an issue IMO.

I tend to think the days of really fat linemen are coming to an end. A tall-but-fit 310 lbs would be more than sufficient in the middle I would think.

You need to be a monster like Wilfork to make it work. You cannot simply be taller as the leverage works against you. You also need heft.

[bobblehead]

What if TT ( Russ Ball) have already insulted Sam Shields and his agent.

Sam Shields total intentions are really focused on that insult and getting out of Dodge /Green Bay?

HOLY REACH!!

Is there ANY evidence to that or is it slightly possible your hatred of all things TT is clouding your judgement? Rosendick is Shields' agent, so if anyone is being unreasonable I would shade it that way.

[mraynrand]

I think Shields will be in GB for 2014, either long term with a new contract or tagged for the year. I don't think they will let him walk this year.

I don't see how they can let him go when he is one of the very few (3-4 at most) playmakers on the defense.

[mraynrand]

HOLY REACH!!

Is there ANY evidence to that or is it slightly possible your hatred of all things TT is clouding your judgement? Rosendick is Shields' agent, so if anyone is being unreasonable I would shade it that way.

now you did it. Here comes the lecture...

[bobblehead]

It wouldn't surprise me if the Packers were offering him the $4-$6 million dollar range, while the Packers are offering him somewhere in the $8 million range.

The question is if one of the teams with a lot of cap room will offer him that kind of money.

I think he is being offered WAY more than 4-6. I would almost definitely think TT has offered him close to 8. I think he is being offered a contract similar to what TWill got.

[bobblehead]

I agree. Once Shields and Raji hit the open market they will find a couple teams looking to sign them. Not many talented, athletic, 27 yo NT on the open market. And not many talented, athletic, super fast 26 yo cover corners on the open market. They will cash in either here or on another team. Neal I could see signing a Jones 3 mil per year type contract. If Raji plays hard ball slap him with the tag.

Actually there are a ton of DL on the market this year. That is our best chance to get Raji back, but I still think they let him walk and push for Randy Starks. If not him, someone else who is just as effective as Raji, but more reasonable in his demands.

[bobblehead]

Still don't think they will pay Shields close to 12 mil even if for only a year. He just isn't worth it....not even close.

You must have been watching other teams. Shields was a legit shutdown guy this year. I still think if he doesn't go down, we beat SF.

[bobblehead]

now you did it. Here comes the lecture...

Other than KY's icebowl post I never read anything over 8 lines long.

[Smidgeon]

Hmmm...

LDE -- Perry
LDT -- Daniels
RDT -- Pickett
RDE -- D. Jones

SAM -- Neal
MLB -- Lattimore
WLL -- Matthews

LCB -- Williams
RCB -- Shields
SS -- Burnett
FS -- Hayward

If the Packers went 4-3, I think they'd keep Raji.

But in other news, the more time I take away from the season and the more time I've had to ruminate on the defense, the more I'm convinced that the defensive failings aren't on Capers but on the crapshoot of a draft. Two years ago, TT drafted for defense to replenish the talent. It hasn't worked so far:

Nick Perry: injuries have clouded his impact, but it's possible he turns into something considering his ability to rush from the right. Verdict: Maybe
Jerel Worthy: zero impact
Casey Hayward: playmaker his first year, but lost the entirety of his second year. Can he put together a solid sophomore year in his third year in the league?
Mike Daniels: consistent rush and likely the focus on the d-line of offenses, but in my opinion not because he's dominant but because there's no one dominant on the line. He could even get better.
Jerron McMillian: swing and a miss, but one I had hope for after seeing him in his rookie year
Terrell Manning: swing and a miss

Six picks in the first five rounds and all defense. And Daniels and Hayward are the only ones who even remotely qualify as playmaker from this draft, and I still wouldn't classify either as a difference maker (I tend to want to see it for a couple years before anointing anyone).

Of course TT is accountable for the draft talent, but I'm not going to the end of saying that I think he has to produce more talent or else (yet). Everyone makes bad picks and has off years. Here's hoping he can get some better talent in this upcoming draft and that the talent he has drafted can stay healthy. Matthews, Hayward, and Perry all remaining healthy would have made an impact. And maybe even Worthy, although I don't know what he's going to offer this team...

PostScript: I still find it hard to believe that the entire 2010 draft class is still on the team, considering the turnover rate and how likely it is for picks to be busts. Yes, Newhouse, Wilson, and Starks are probably all gone this year, but all seven of the players have started a stretch of games for the Packers in their careers. Makes the 2011 and 2012 classes seem bereft of talent in comparison, but the 2011 and 2012 classes are probably closer to the norm across the NFL. Time for the odds to work in our favor this year: great draft class and no injuries.

[call_me_ishmael]

If a guy is gonna be a star, you'll see it right away. They'll be raw but at least flash brilliance on a regular basis.

The hope with a lot of these guys is they can become average to above average players. Worthy is a lot like Raji to be honest. Both have "rare" burst but are "lazy"and prone to "take plays off".

[Bossman641]

I'd hate to lose Neal, but I could easily see him being offered a big deal elsewhere and jump on it. Clay and Perry are both basically guaranteed to miss 3-4 games a year so that 3rd LB spot is very important.

[call_me_ishmael]

I'd hate to lose Neal, but I could easily see him being offered a big deal elsewhere and jump on it. Clay and Perry are both basically guaranteed to miss 3-4 games a year so that 3rd LB spot is very important.

He's not gonna get offered a big contract. He'll get a Brad Jones contract and be back if we want him. He is a JAG right now.

[Striker]

If a guy is gonna be a star, you'll see it right away. They'll be raw but at least flash brilliance on a regular basis.

The hope with a lot of these guys is they can become average to above average players. Worthy is a lot like Raji to be honest. Both have "rare" burst but are "lazy"and prone to "take plays off".

I don't think you can really make that call on Worthy at the moment. The injury and recovery destroyed any impact he would have this season. We'll see if he can come into camp ready to play.

[Zool]

He's not gonna get offered a big contract. He'll get a Brad Jones contract and be back if we want him. He is a JAG right now.

Let me direct you to: Walden, Eric 4 years 16mil.