Russell Wilson: Overrated?

[Pugger]

Harvin, when healthy, is pretty darn good.
Tate's not a bad #2 or #3 but I'd take Jordy or Cobb over him.

Sidney Rice was good before all the injuries, back when He Who Shall Not Be Named was the Viking QB throwing him the ball. Now I think he's probably done in SEA and signs as a #3WR with another contender.

Wilson's receivers weren't that great, but Wilson's ability to scramble and keep plays alive along with effective play action thanks to the threat of Lynch are what made the difference. Tough to cover receivers -- even average ones -- for 5+ seconds.

Yes, Wilson's scrambling ability and having Lynch behind him is what helps his game. He'll never be a QB who will be able to carry his team on his back like the true elites do.

[Pugger]

Rodgers is the man, but he can really silence any other doubters he has this year. Looks like in a year period he will probably lose Jennings, Driver, Finley, Jones, and Quarless.

2008: Jennings, Driver, Jones, Nelson, Lee, Finley. (Finley and Nelson were rookies)
2009: Jennings, Driver, Jones, Nelson, Finley, Lee
2010: Jennings, Driver, Jones, Nelson, Finley, Lee, Quarless
2011: Jennings, Driver Jones, Nelson, Cobb, Finley, Quarless....sick
2012: Jennings, Driver, Jones, Nelson, Cobb, Finley
2013: Nelson, Jones, Cobb, Boykin, Finley, Quarless
2014: Nelson, Cobb, ???? - Boykin is good but not really good (at least not yet)

Depends on what happens in the draft and free agency, but 2014 is looking like the first year Rodgers might not have 4 or 5 solid options.

But with a legit running game and thus a more balanced offense Rodgers might not need 4 or 5 receiving options.

[Brandon494]

Yes, Wilson's scrambling ability and having Lynch behind him is what helps his game. He'll never be a QB who will be able to carry his team on his back like the true elites do.

Lmao so you have a crystal ball now? Hes only in his second year, you really think hes hit his plateau? You can tell which fans hear actually watch/know football and which fans only go by what they see on sports center. IMO hes the best young QB in the game, wait til hes gets a true #1 receiver to work with. People want to compare him to Fran Tarkenton (who was almost born in my hometown Richmond, VA) but I see a lot of Steve Young in his game.

[mraynrand]

Lmao so you have a crystal ball now? Hes only in his second year, you really think hes hit his plateau? You can tell which fans hear actually watch/know football and which fans only go by what they see on sports center. IMO hes the best young QB in the game, wait til hes gets a true #1 receiver to work with.

Depending on what you define as young, I'd probably agree with you. (Ranking the rest of the 'young guns': Kap, Foles, Newton, Luck, ...gap... Dalton, RGIII).

Talking with people from Seattle, Wilson is a leader of men; that aspect should not be underestimated. It's one of the things that made Bart so effective.

[bobblehead]

Lmao so you have a crystal ball now? Hes only in his second year, you really think hes hit his plateau? You can tell which fans hear actually watch/know football and which fans only go by what they see on sports center. IMO hes the best young QB in the game, wait til hes gets a true #1 receiver to work with. People want to compare him to Fran Tarkenton (who was almost born in my hometown Richmond, VA) but I see a lot of Steve Young in his game.

I agree with you and Pugger. My opinion is that he won't ever be the QB that carries a team. I also am open to the possibility he developes into a Drew Brees type. I'm a Russel Fan, being he is a UW alumni, but I don't think my vision is clouded too much in either direction. I also have a strong bias against run first QB's (like Tebow...see, I mentioned a white guy just for you). Wilson is always looking downfield when he is running around, and that separates him from Kap and/or Cam. His arm also isn't as powerful as those 2 though, and Cam has under rated touch on his passes.

Conclusion: Best of the young? Well, he has a trophy and that is a great start to the debate.

edit a PS: When saying saying someone doesn't actually watch football you look smarter when you use the correct form of here.

[Brandon494]

I shouldn't have said they don't watch football but rather I mean the only games they really watch are Packer games. I'm just saying from what this kid has done in his first 2 seasons and the type of leader he is showing he can be I don't see any reason why he can't be elite someday in this league. His only disadvantage is his height, he has every other tool you look for in a QB plus hes a born leader. Anyway agree to disagree I guess, I just can't wait to bump this thread in a few years.

[Pugger]

Lmao so you have a crystal ball now? Hes only in his second year, you really think hes hit his plateau? You can tell which fans hear actually watch/know football and which fans only go by what they see on sports center. IMO hes the best young QB in the game, wait til hes gets a true #1 receiver to work with. People want to compare him to Fran Tarkenton (who was almost born in my hometown Richmond, VA) but I see a lot of Steve Young in his game.

I've probably been watching football longer than you've been alive so I don't need to watch BSPN to figure out the game. Wilson IS surrounded by one hell of supporting cast. Let's see what happens after they pay him the big bucks to see if they can keep this talent around him before we declare him the second coming of Steve Young.

[Brandon494]

I've probably been watching football longer than you've been alive so I don't need to watch BSPN to figure out the game. Wilson IS surrounded by one hell of supporting cast. Let's see what happens after they pay him the big bucks to see if they can keep this talent around him before we declare him the second coming of Steve Young.

On defense!!! Besides Lynch who else made up this hell of a supporting cast? Besides Harvin who didn't play all season the WRs are all average, average TE, average O-line. Yes the defense is the reason they won the Super Bowl but they have no effect on Russells offensive stats. Hes only in his 2nd year and hes already playing like a season vet...you don't think he has the room to get better when hes 25? Rodgers didn't even play til he was 25 and his first season starting wasn't even as good as Wilson's rookie year. Wilson just has that "IT" factor and everyone who knows football can see that.

[Zool]

On defense!!! Besides Lynch who else made up this hell of a supporting cast? Besides Harvin who didn't play all season the WRs are all average, average TE, average O-line. Yes the defense is the reason they won the Super Bowl but they have no effect on Russells offensive stats. Hes only in his 2nd year and hes already playing like a season vet...you don't think he has the room to get better when hes 25? Rodgers didn't even play til he was 25 and his first season starting wasn't even as good as Wilson's rookie year. Wilson just has that "IT" factor and everyone who knows football can see that.

Wilson played a year in the minors before going back for a 5th year at UW. He's 25 now and turns 26 during the 2014 season. He's nearing his plateau. IMO he's too erratic to be a 4000 yard passer every year but he has to be considered in the top 10 QBs right now. APRH, he should play 10+ years and be a franchise QB for his entire career. I'm with you on his supporting cast. Not one of the pass catchers would start in GB other than China Doll Harvin and he can't be counted on to stay healthy.

[Brandon494]

He didn't miss a year playing minors, that was the plan but he decided to come back to football. Unfortunately for him NC State had already moved on with current Bucs starter Glennon and that's when Russell made the transfer to Wisconsin. He was able to transfer without waiting a year because he had already graduated. Also he just turned 25 two months ago...Rodgers hadn't even had a career start under his belt...he is far from reaching his plateau. Lets not also forget the division they are in and the defenses he has to face twice a year.

[Bretsky]

Brandon makes a lot of great points and I find it hard to forecast whether he is elite or not.

What goes unsaid here is in the second half of the season Russell Wilson's OL was terrible.

They were sound at the beginning but they NEEDED a scrambler during the second half of the season.
Rusell Wilson has accmplished more in his first two seasons win wise and QB rating wise than any QB I can remember
What is Russell Wilsons QB Rating in the playoffs ? That will shock the people who don't think he can ever be elite ?
Russell Wilson was playing on a very sub par offense last year. They has Lynch, an average OL who broke down late in the year, and sub par Wide Receivers.

He played with the best defense in the NFL that often gave him nice field position...that might have led to his lack of stats on paper as well.

He gave them exactly what they needed.

I'm not going to say he's ever going to be elite. But IMO you are selling him short by saying he wont' be. What I do know is he's overachieved even those with the greatest expectations, and had a better start in his first two years than a QB I can remember.

There are not many QB's IMO who would have led that team to a win over San Francisco. Throw in an elite but immobile QB and Seattle would have lost.

[bobblehead]

I shouldn't have said they don't watch football but rather I mean the only games they really watch are Packer games. I'm just saying from what this kid has done in his first 2 seasons and the type of leader he is showing he can be I don't see any reason why he can't be elite someday in this league. His only disadvantage is his height, he has every other tool you look for in a QB plus hes a born leader. Anyway agree to disagree I guess, I just can't wait to bump this thread in a few years.

We don't actually disagree. I mainly disagreed with your tone. I don't know how good Russel might become, right now he is damn good, not yet elite.

[Bretsky]

It's too early to call him elite. Was Payton Manning, Drew Brees, or Aaron Rodgers elite after two years ? Wilson has a nice start to getting there and in terms of QB's I'd take over him going forward there are not too many.

[Pugger]

Brandon makes a lot of great points and I find it hard to forecast whether he is elite or not.

What goes unsaid here is in the second half of the season Russell Wilson's OL was terrible.

They were sound at the beginning but they NEEDED a scrambler during the second half of the season.
Rusell Wilson has accmplished more in his first two seasons win wise and QB rating wise than any QB I can remember
What is Russell Wilsons QB Rating in the playoffs ? That will shock the people who don't think he can ever be elite ?
Russell Wilson was playing on a very sub par offense last year. They has Lynch, an average OL who broke down late in the year, and sub par Wide Receivers.

He played with the best defense in the NFL that often gave him nice field position...that might have led to his lack of stats on paper as well.

He gave them exactly what they needed.

I'm not going to say he's ever going to be elite. But IMO you are selling him short by saying he wont' be. What I do know is he's overachieved even those with the greatest expectations, and had a better start in his first two years than a QB I can remember.

There are not many QB's IMO who would have led that team to a win over San Francisco. Throw in an elite but immobile QB and Seattle would have lost.

Russell also has Lynch behind him. I like Wilson (I just hate the team he is on) but we can't say yet for sure one way or another if he'll be another elite QB or not.

[Bretsky]

Russell also has Lynch behind him. I like Wilson (I just hate the team he is on) but we can't say yet for sure one way or another if he'll be another elite QB or not.

OK...so he has a very good RB.

But give them the average QB w/o mobility and that is a below average offense.

Wilson made them a better offense.

Lynch and his Beast Mode get pimped all the time in the media. But is he really elite ?

All Day Peterso is elite. Lesean Mccoy and Charles as well.

Lynch is in the next group of backs below them.