Jeff Janis: He Who Conquers

[Patler]

IDK, you could see his body control from the start. Certainly had issues with effort and mental early on. I think his improvement was more in those areas. His body control was touted in his draft profiles.

Body control as being generally athletic, but not as in using his body to get position against DBs. He mostly wanted to run past them.

[Patler]

RRodgers reminds me of Bubba Franks = slow of foot but decent in the red zone. RR has nice hands (he had a terrible game against Denver Sunday night).

Big difference is that when he was younger, Bubba Franks was a terrific blocker. RRodgers not so much.

[sharpe1027]

Body control as being generally athletic, but not as in using his body to get position against DBs. He mostly wanted to run past them.

The first is what I am talking about. The second is just desire. R. Rodgers doesn't seem to have the first, so he isn't going to learn it now.

[Harlan Huckleby]

https://ia601508.us.archive.org/25/items/Packers_TVV/TVV.mp3

Tim Van Vooren, the Packer beat writer for Fox Sports, comes very close to taking a whiff on Homer's show. Like Silverstein, he obviously wants to see more of Janis on the field.

[Patler]

Big difference is that when he was younger, Bubba Franks was a terrific blocker. RRodgers not so much.

The first is what I am talking about. The second is just desire. R. Rodgers doesn't seem to have the first, so he isn't going to learn it now.

But I think you can have the second even if challenged in the first.

[Patler]

Position coach's summary:

Quarless, according to Fontenot, is the fastest tight end on the roster. Backman and Perillo, he said, are a bit behind and reasonably close to each other in terms of speed.

"The other guys do a much better job of responding to visual cues from the quarterback," Fontenot said. "It's just from a lack of experience for (Backman) because everything happens so split-second on the field during a game."

[pbmax]

But I think you can have the second even if challenged in the first.

Agreed.

[pbmax]

Janis is the new backup quarterback.

[sharpe1027]

But I think you can have the second even if challenged in the first.

Sure, but I am not sure we are talking about the same thing. Finley had the ability to use his body well, he just wasn't applying it to that aspect of his game - i.e., he just wanted to run past DBs. At some point that changed for the better. The light bulb went on for him.

R. Rodgers doesn't seem to have that same level of ability, so his problem is different from Finley's problem.

Let me ask it this way, do you think R. Rodgers will develop the same level of body control as Gates or Finley over the next year or so?

[Maxie the Taxi]

Janis is the new backup quarterback.

Backup??

[sharpe1027]

Backup??

Backup QB syndrome. Everyone wants to see him play, not based on his ability, but based on how poorly the guy in front of him plays.

For the record, I don't want to see Janis because of Janis, I wanted to see some adjustments made. An example would have been getting some different personnel out there.

[Patler]

Sure, but I am not sure we are talking about the same thing. Finley had the ability to use his body well, he just wasn't applying it to that aspect of his game - i.e., he just wanted to run past DBs. At some point that changed for the better. The light bulb went on for him.

R. Rodgers doesn't seem to have that same level of ability, so his problem is different from Finley's problem.

Let me ask it this way, do you think R. Rodgers will develop the same level of body control as Gates or Finley over the next year or so?

Body control? That relates more to the ability to make off balance, acrobatic catches. Really doesn't have a lot to do with being able to screen out defenders and make the type of contested catches that typical TEs see. While Finley was fairly athletic, I don't think he excelled at using that athleticism to make those types of catches. He simply was able to get away from defenders based on his combination of size, quickness and speed.

Making contested catches by gaining superior position against a defender is based more on timing and awareness than anything else. Knowing where the defenders are, seeing or sensing when and where the ball will arrive, and achieving preferred position at just the right time. Do it too early and the defender can recover, do it too late and you don't have it. Some have compared it to rebounding. While a high degree of athleticism can help, you can be a good rebounder without it; and being highly athletic does not mean that you will be a good rebounder.

So, what aspects are we talking about? If it is making contested catches with superior positioning, being a strong red zone target, I think R. Rodgers can be as valuable or even more valuable than Finley was, because his hands are so much better, and reportedly he is a more disciplined route runner.

[Patler]

Backup QB syndrome. Everyone wants to see him play, not based on his ability, but based on how poorly the guy in front of him plays.

For the record, I don't want to see Janis because of Janis, I wanted to see some adjustments made. An example would have been getting some different personnel out there.

I am not disappointed in the others, they are what we should have known they are. I would first like to see Adams healthy for a few weeks, because the coaches and QB are adamant that he will make a difference. I want to see Janis because I think he might be able to do some things the others can not, and I want to see where he is at development-wise.

[sharpe1027]

Body control? That relates more to the ability to make off balance, acrobatic catches. Really doesn't have a lot to do with being able to screen out defenders and make the type of contested catches that typical TEs see. While Finley was fairly athletic, I don't think he excelled at using that athleticism to make those types of catches. He simply was able to get away from defenders based on his combination of size, quickness and speed.

Making contested catches by gaining superior position against a defender is based more on timing and awareness than anything else. Knowing where the defenders are, seeing or sensing when and where the ball will arrive, and achieving preferred position at just the right time. Do it too early and the defender can recover, do it too late and you don't have it. Some have compared it to rebounding. While a high degree of athleticism can help, you can be a good rebounder without it; and being highly athletic does not mean that you will be a good rebounder.

So, what aspects are we talking about? If it is making contested catches with superior positioning, being a strong red zone target, I think R. Rodgers can be as valuable or even more valuable than Finley was, because his hands are so much better, and reportedly he is a more disciplined route runner.

Who said anything about a red zone target? We were talking about R. Rodgers improving relative to the Denver game and there wasn't much in terms of red zone opportunities. PB made a comment about RR learning from Jones and I said he wasn't going to learn his body control over the weekend.

I am not sure where you are going with this. I think it will take awhile before we see marked improvement. Maybe I am wrong.

[sharpe1027]

I am not disappointed in the others, they are what we should have known they are. I would first like to see Adams healthy for a few weeks, because the coaches and QB are adamant that he will make a difference. I want to see Janis because I think he might be able to do some things the others can not, and I want to see where he is at development-wise.

Yes.