Is Aaron Rodgers more of the problem than we might think?

[mraynrand]

I’m mostly OK with Rodgers ‘playing his game’ but whatever that is exactly does require that all the other guys on offense can handle it too. It won’t work if they’re lost and don’t know what the hell is going on.

[texaspackerbacker]

This is a little quote, Favre spent some time with Rodgers and he talks about how the offense should be built with Rodgers at QB



“So I think you let him play his game and not disturb that very much. And it’s going to be interesting to see if that happens”



apparently after Favre talked with Rodgers he came away wondering how that was going to play out too... hmmm!!!!


Is Favre a trouble making media puke, Tex? He seems to be questioning the power struggle too.

Why would you ask that? Favre's take on what should happen is exactly the right one. Anybody with a lick of sense knows that - I assume that includes LaFleur.

Besides, just because the media says Favre said that doesn't necessarily mean he said it. Those pukes are a bunch of damned liars.

[texaspackerbacker]

I’m mostly OK with Rodgers ‘playing his game’ but whatever that is exactly does require that all the other guys on offense can handle it too. It won’t work if they’re lost and don’t know what the hell is going on.

That's the coaches' job - to make sure they do know.

[RashanGary]

Rodgers two biggest problems as I see it are overcomplicating the offense to the point where it takes skill players 3 or 4 years to be trusted and then the audibling out of runs so often that he makes life harder on himself and the offense as a whole.

I’m ok if Rodgers plays his game. But he should also look at improving the spots in his game that are holding him back from winning more games.

And it doesn’t surprise me Favre wants Rodgers to play his game whether it means winning or not. Favre slung guns whether or not it made sense because he was more about being himself than winning. Rodgers kind of has some of that, wanting to express himself more than he wants to win in a different way.

Coaches are more focused on winning than letting one player have his self expression show. That’s why there is a balance that needs to be struck. I’m more worried about Rodgers than Lafleur to be honest. Lafleur already is talking about adjustments he’s willing to make. One I hope Lafleur will not make is the amount we run the ball. Rodgers should have no say in how many times we run. Give him open creativity in the pass game, sure. A whole palate of pass plays to choose from, sure. But someone has to finally enforce discipline in the run geme. It’s killong our offense to run so sparingly. Rodgers needs to be stopped from controlling that aspect.

[mraynrand]

That's the coaches' job - to make sure they do know.

That's a deep insight, but it doesn't really address the issue.

[pbmax]

This is true.

The print people tend to be less of the jock sniffers than the TV people. Mooch is in a category all his own.

Mooch is still thinking like a veteran coach: where will my next job be at? Let's not piss anyone off unnecessarily.

[pbmax]

Someday, there will just be one quarterback, as they all merge into one performance brand conglomerate.

“Aaron will be fine,” Favre said. “I think that the thing is he needs to remain the same. And I don’t have to give him any advice. You know, he’ll handle it well. The question is, how will they handle it with him. And obviously, that’s very important. I mean, there’s more to the team than Aaron but we all have to admit that when he’s playing and playing well, which generally when he’s playing he is playing well, you don’t want to change what’s working. There’s other factors that you have to work on.

It doesn't necessarily bode well for the future, but I cannot tell you how thrilled I am that I have penetrated one of the deep mysteries of my youth. The QB-Team standoff.

I only wish this bit of wisdom was more widely useful.

https://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2019/06/22/brett-favre-talks-comeback-bart-starr-and-aaron-rodgers-amfam-championship/1536352001/

[pbmax]

Someone tell Scoops McGinn about this. He's pretty good on the former, but not so much the latter.

Still, I hate to object, but much of sports media is gossip and blather. That's just the truth.

Speaking of Scoops, I just found out that the Packers have never credentialed him at his dot com firm. Same thing with CheeseheadTV.

[pbmax]

I think Tex is clearly a little over-the-top about Aaron Rodgers, who must shoulder some of the blame for the offense's problems last year - after all, as several posters said three years ago, Rodgers led a collection of nobodies to the playoffs every year, and if this is true, then why couldn't he do it last year?

Bum knee.

[Joemailman]

Rodgers two biggest problems as I see it are overcomplicating the offense to the point where it takes skill players 3 or 4 years to be trusted and then the audibling out of runs so often that he makes life harder on himself and the offense as a whole.

I’m ok if Rodgers plays his game. But he should also look at improving the spots in his game that are holding him back from winning more games.

And it doesn’t surprise me Favre wants Rodgers to play his game whether it means winning or not. Favre slung guns whether or not it made sense because he was more about being himself than winning. Rodgers kind of has some of that, wanting to express himself more than he wants to win in a different way.

Coaches are more focused on winning than letting one player have his self expression show. That’s why there is a balance that needs to be struck. I’m more worried about Rodgers than Lafleur to be honest. Lafleur already is talking about adjustments he’s willing to make. One I hope Lafleur will not make is the amount we run the ball. Rodgers should have no say in how many times we run. Give him open creativity in the pass game, sure. A whole palate of pass plays to choose from, sure. But someone has to finally enforce discipline in the run geme. It’s killong our offense to run so sparingly. Rodgers needs to be stopped from controlling that aspect.

The QB needs to have the ability to check out of a run. The reason is that there are late adjustments that a defense can make (Like a safety moving up to he line) that will doom a running play to failure but will provide an opportunity in the passing game. That doesn't mean that Rodgers can check out of a run any time he wants. If he does so, and it's not obvious why he did so, he needs to explain his reasoning. The key here is to have Rodgers and MLF thinking along he same lines, rather than MLF dictating to Rodgers or Rodgers defying MLF.

[RashanGary]

The QB needs to have the ability to check out of a run. The reason is that there are late adjustments that a defense can make (Like a safety moving up to he line) that will doom a running play to failure but will provide an opportunity in the passing game. That doesn't mean that Rodgers can check out of a run any time he wants. If he does so, and it's not obvious why he did so, he needs to explain his reasoning. The key here is to have Rodgers and MLF thinking along he same lines, rather than MLF dictating to Rodgers or Rodgers defying MLF.

Teams show 8 man boxes presnap for this reason. So the audibling is being neutralized and even taken advantage of. That’s why motioning and cluster formations are often times a better way to truly see what a defense is playing. It forces a defense to show its cards.

Another way to keep defenses honest is to balance pass and run.

We know Aaron can make a lot of audibles. He’s very good at it. But can he use some of the other tools as well. And can he commit to the run for its long term gain rather than falling for the presnap alignments defenses show him on every play?

I really believe there is much more depth to offense vs defense strategy than just trusting the defenses presnap look and audibling into the right play.

[RashanGary]

Teams caught onto ARs audible style a few years ago and he’s been less affective since. Let’s work on some new principles to keep his game ahead Of the defensive adjustments.

[mraynrand]

Speaking of Scoops, I just found out that the Packers have never credentialed him at his dot com firm. Same thing with CheeseheadTV.

Does it make any difference? Does he get a gold star on his belly?

[RashanGary]

It’s another reason why I believe Aaron Rodgers holds the ball so much. He and McCarthy chose to stay in those static formations and create probably the leagues most elaborate audible system to adjust for defensive personnel and alignment at the line of scrimmage. Defenses adjust by constantly disguising coverages. Once the ball is snapped, the perfectionist AR has to abandon his perfect play call because he called it for the defense he saw not the defense that ended up being played. He runs around and makes some plays. Injuries and sacks happen too.

Lafleur has a different style of offense. Rather than trusting a defenses pre snap look (and why should he, defenses are clever too) he opts to motion guys around to see how the defense realigns to the changing formations. Masking a defense is easier when the formation stays static. They just have to align once, stay disciplined through the snap count and then pounce post snap.

It requires a whole new level of discipline to continue to mask a coverage while the offense motions into and out of formations. Now the defense has to first align once in a mask. Then align a second and sometimes third time in the mask. And then have the discipline to wait until post snap to reveal anything. With so many rookies and 3rd, 4th, 5th string players playing in an NFL season, defenses are bound to mess it up much of the time.

Rodgers rarely does a quick snap unless he’s trying to get that 12th man penalty. He’s a perfectionist at the line, taking into account personnel, alignment and tendency in a short amount of time and then adjusting. Like I said, there was a time they become so good at it, they took the league by storm. But that time is passed. Lafleur likes the quick snap. It puts defenses off balance.

MM/AR created plays for specific defenses and then relied on Rodgers to get the right play for the right defense. A huge responsibility. Lafleurs creativity focuses on making plays that have solutions for a variety of defenses. If the defense was showing covet 1 and goes to cover 2, then follow this progression. In the event of cover 3 then this. In the event of quarters then that. The plays are more flexible to post snap defensive changes.

At the end of the day, AR loves changing the plays, even if the defense has him fooled with a mask and it doesn’t work,, he still wants to pick the play. When the playcall is wrong, AR loves that he can move around and make up for it. It’s his style. It’s what he wants to do. It’s what he loves. But!!!! There is room for growth! Honestly, if they just mixed in a few quick snaps and then ran the ball a few more times against presnap 8 man box looks, it would sprinkle some unpredictability into the game. McCarthy tried and AR refused to budge. Now it’s lafleurs turn to try. Is Aaron going to make the game plan all about him or is he gonna mix in some new concepts that are easier for him to implement and easier for the young players to execute and have the benefit of adding unpredictability to the play selection as well as more unpredictability with the snapcount.

Let’s face it, teams know Aaron is gonna audible out of a run if they show 8 man boxes. So they show 8 man boxes, then switch at the snap and pin their ears back as pass rushers knowing Aaron will not call a run into that look. It makes us predictable. If the defense didn’t mask, Aaron has the perfect play and it’s all about him. If they do mask, Aaron makes some plays with his legs and it’s still all about him. And then the several times he gets sacked, and the lack of run game, well, that doesn’t count cuz look at his “stats.” So he wants to call the play even if it’s predictable and then make the play. It’s all about him. I’m not a fan. It’s become an ego game of Aaron vs the world. Yuck!

[RashanGary]

Winston Moss called it out after last seasons debacle. Someone has to stop Aaron Rodgers. He’s become bigger than the team.