Is Aaron Rodgers more of the problem than we might think?

[mraynrand]

That's what I have been wondering for a while now. Almost putting himself on a different plane from the rest of the team. I think there is a tendency for experienced QB's to do that, partly because all of a sudden they find themselves playing with a team full of guys 10 years or more younger than they are.

AR has a tendency to say, "I am so proud of so-and-so" when a younger player has a good game. At times it comes across like a parent talking about their child, not one team mate talking about another.

To be honest, this rehtoric about Janis, Abrederis, Rodgers, Adams etc. having to earn AR's trust before they can play is getting old. Coaches say it, AR says it, other players say it and the subject players themselves say it. It might be true, just as it is with other QBs, but it is starting to come across as if AR has the ultimate say over who plays and how much they play. It's almost like a three step process (playbook, coaches, AR) with AR being the final decision maker.

During one of Favre's later years, they had a season when WR after WR was injured. At one time or another something like 10 different WRs were on the roster and played. Not many had the chance to earn Favre's trust, but no one talked about that.

I can see where a team of 60 guys might have a bunch who feel AR is putting himself above the team with his comments.

That Favre year was 2005 and it was Andrae Thurman he was throwing to. Favre didn't give a shit who was at WR, he just kept slinging it. But Favre would also throw it up for grabs in a game like Sunday where the O-line was shouting "Ole!" as they whiffed and the defenders stampeded towards the QB.

Rodgers is off, but absolutely the pressure makes it worse. And the pressure is not Rodger's fault, or at least very little of it is.

I said it before and I'll say it again: check-down, touch down has to be the mentality. There are offenses far shittier than GB that could score two TDs against AZ while not giving up two TDs. A more conservative offensive game plan could keep the Packers in playoff games against better teams because their defense is not all that bad, especially if Shields returns.

[pbmax]

Well, camp INTs did not follow him into the regular season until the offense was coming apart at the seams.

[B]Date	 . Week	 . Tm	Opp	Result	GS . Cm . Att . Cmp% . Yds . TD . Int Rate . Y/A . AY/A[/B]
2015-09-13 . 01 . GNB . @CHI . W 31-23 . * . 18 . 23 . 78.26 . 189 . 3 . 0 . 140.5 . 8.22 . 10.83
2015-09-20 . 02 . GNB . vSEA . W 27-17 . * . 25 . 33 . 75.76 . 249 . 2 . 0 . 116.9 . 7.55 . 8.76
2015-09-28 . 03 . GNB . vKAN . W 38-28 . * . 24 . 35 . 68.57 . 333 . 5 . 0 . 138.5 . 9.51 . 12.37
2015-10-04 . 04 . GNB . @SFO . W 17-3 .. * . 22 . 32 . 68.75 . 224 . 1 . 0 . 99.0 .. 7.00 . 7.63
2015-10-11 . 05 . GNB . vSTL . W 24-10 . * . 19 . 30 . 63.33 . 241 . 2 . 2 . 82.8 .. 8.03 . 6.37
2015-10-18 . 06 . GNB . vSDG . W 27-20 . * . 16 . 29 . 55.17 . 255 . 2 . 0 . 107.7 . 8.79 . 10.17
2015-11-01 . 08 . GNB . @DEN . L 10-29 . * . 14 . 22 . 63.64 . 077 . 0 . 0 . 69.7 .. 3.50 . 3.50
2015-11-08 . 09 . GNB . @CAR . L 29-37 . * . 25 . 48 . 52.08 . 369 . 4 . 1 . 96.6 .. 7.69 . 8.42
2015-11-15 . 10 . GNB . vDET . L 16-18 . * . 35 . 61 . 57.38 . 333 . 2 . 0 . 83.6 .. 5.46 . 6.11
2015-11-22 . 11 . GNB . @MIN . W 30-13 . * . 16 . 34 . 47.06 . 212 . 2 . 0 . 86.9 .. 6.24 . 7.41
2015-11-26 . 12 . GNB . vCHI . L 13-17 . * . 22 . 43 . 51.16 . 202 . 1 . 1 . 62.4 .. 4.70 . 4.12
2015-12-03 . 13 . GNB . @DET . W 27-23 . * . 24 . 36 . 66.67 . 273 . 2 . 1 . 96.2 .. 7.58 . 7.44
2015-12-13 . 14 . GNB . vDAL . W 28-7 .. * . 22 . 35 . 62.86 . 218 . 2 . 0 . 99.5 .. 6.23 . 7.37
2015-12-20 . 15 . GNB . @OAK . W 30-20 . * . 22 . 39 . 56.41 . 204 . 1 . 1 . 68.8 .. 5.23 . 4.59
2015-12-27 . 16 . GNB . @ARI . L 8-38 .. * . 15 . 28 . 53.57 . 151 . 1 . 1 . 66.2 .. 5.39 . 4.50

Versus Seattle D, Kansas City D, St Louis D, Rodgers fares pretty well. With a completion percentage of better than 70% and a passer rating near 115.

But after 5 weeks, indeed possibly during Week 5 (2 picks), it was obvious teams saw on film what they could do to shut down this version of the Packer offense. This marked the turning point of man coverage and five man rushed to keep him from scrambling.

[woodbuck27]

I think the bigger problem is that they have no speed. So it almost doesn't matter how many times Rodgers changes the play vs what's called.

After watching the Cardinals offense and then the Broncos-Bengals game on Monday, it struck me how many more fast options those teams had available and how much more stress that puts on the defense.

Cobb can do it sometimes, but teams usually take him out of the plan pretty easily.

A big part of Starks's success seems to be that he gets upfield so fast. I think it's a shock to opposing defenses. But he can't stop carrying the ball in the wrong arm and puts the ball on the ground too much.

Janis can't be trusted to make routine plays.

Abbredaris has flashed some ability to get open as a #3/4 but even he's been inconsistent.

Their normal starting lineup is almost all plodders and it is hard to even catch a defense off guard because they don't need to worry about recovering if they're caught out of position by a crafty playcall, a check, or what-have-you.

So maybe M3 is right. Maybe they should just line up and run the plays called and at least operate as a unit and not think about whether or not to change the play. At the very least, they won't be confused, even if they're slow.

Yes simply put:

Keep it simple in the Red Zone...and have a lot of confidence based in what you did right to get that close to a major score....a TD !

Keep it simple and just call a solid play and everyone then gets on the same page and you execute that play as it's been executed so often in practise.

The coaching has to gtr the team game ready. Be confident in the preparation and then simply have faith in the correct execution. It's NOT Rocket Science OUR Team simply gets better prepared that the opposing team.

Our team gets errrr done best overall.

GO PACK GO !

[mraynrand]

Keep it simple and just call a solid play and everyone then gets on the same page and you execute that play as it's been executed so often in practise.

Finally we have a clear plan for victory.

[Smidgeon]

Well, camp INTs did not follow him into the regular season until the offense was coming apart at the seams.

Date	Week	Tm		Opp	Result	GS	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	Int	Rate	Y/A	AY/A
2015-09-13	1	GNB	@	CHI	W 31-23	*	18	23	78.26	189	3	0	140.5	8.22	10.83
2015-09-20	2	GNB		SEA	W 27-17	*	25	33	75.76	249	2	0	116.9	7.55	8.76
2015-09-28	3	GNB		KAN	W 38-28	*	24	35	68.57	333	5	0	138.5	9.51	12.37
2015-10-04	4	GNB	@	SFO	W 17-3	*	22	32	68.75	224	1	0	99.0	7.00	7.63
2015-10-11	5	GNB		STL	W 24-10	*	19	30	63.33	241	2	2	82.8	8.03	6.37
2015-10-18	6	GNB		SDG	W 27-20	*	16	29	55.17	255	2	0	107.7	8.79	10.17
2015-11-01	8	GNB	@	DEN	L 10-29	*	14	22	63.64	77	0	0	69.7	3.50	3.50
2015-11-08	9	GNB	@	CAR	L 29-37	*	25	48	52.08	369	4	1	96.6	7.69	8.42
2015-11-15	10	GNB		DET	L 16-18	*	35	61	57.38	333	2	0	83.6	5.46	6.11
2015-11-22	11	GNB	@	MIN	W 30-13	*	16	34	47.06	212	2	0	86.9	6.24	7.41
2015-11-26	12	GNB		CHI	L 13-17	*	22	43	51.16	202	1	1	62.4	4.70	4.12
2015-12-03	13	GNB	@	DET	W 27-23	*	24	36	66.67	273	2	1	96.2	7.58	7.44
2015-12-13	14	GNB		DAL	W 28-7	*	22	35	62.86	218	2	0	99.5	6.23	7.37
2015-12-20	15	GNB	@	OAK	W 30-20	*	22	39	56.41	204	1	1	68.8	5.23	4.59
2015-12-27	16	GNB	@	ARI	L 8-38	*	15	28	53.57	151	1	1	66.2	5.39	4.50

Versus Seattle D, Kansas City D, St Louis D, Rodgers fares pretty well. With a completion percentage of better than 70% and a passer rating near 115.

But after 5 weeks, indeed possibly during Week 5, it was obvious teams saw on film what they could do to shut down this version of the Packer offense. This marked the turning point of man coverage and five man rushed to keep him from scrambling.

Wow, the statistical difference pre Denver vs Denver and after is dramatic. Strictly defenses picking up on Packers' O tendencies or did injuries on the oline coincide?

[mraynrand]

Wow, the statistical difference pre Denver vs Denver and after is dramatic. Strictly defenses picking up on Packers' O tendencies or did injuries on the oline coincide?

I think the troubles precede even the Denver game. The decline coincides directly with the injury to Monty. It really is remarkable - right after that injury in the SD game, the Packers were just stymied.

[pbmax]

I think it was film first, then Monty, then injuries to O Line.

Packers Offense didn't light it up versus San Fran. What does San Fran play? Cover 2 man under. St Louis has the pass rush but not the DBs. San Diego found the pass rush but doesn't have a great D overall. Denver has it all and put the screws to the offense based on the varying levels of success of the previous three opponents.

[Patler]

That Favre year was 2005 and it was Andrae Thurman he was throwing to. Favre didn't give a shit who was at WR, he just kept slinging it. But Favre would also throw it up for grabs in a game like Sunday where the O-line was shouting "Ole!" as they whiffed and the defenders stampeded towards the QB.

Rodgers is off, but absolutely the pressure makes it worse. And the pressure is not Rodger's fault, or at least very little of it is.

I said it before and I'll say it again: check-down, touch down has to be the mentality. There are offenses far shittier than GB that could score two TDs against AZ while not giving up two TDs. A more conservative offensive game plan could keep the Packers in playoff games against better teams because their defense is not all that bad, especially if Shields returns.

Ya, I wasn't suggesting I want AR to become Favre. The problem now is that without injuries necessitating a change, it's hard for a younger player to "earn" time after the season starts, because practices have become so nonphysical and noncompetitive.

Adams has played like crap week after week. What would it hurt to give Abrederis and Janis consistent opportunities each week, with a few less snaps going to Adams? Maybe the lightbulb will go on.

I think Janis is a good example. On STs early in the year, he looked totally out of control on punt coverage. Made a bad decision or two, but has gotten better as the season rolled on. Watching him on punt coverage is now one of the entertaining things about a Packer game. Janis has been open deep at least twice that I recall, and Rodgers overthrew him once and underthrew him on another. I'm not sure you can blame Janis on either of those. That doesn't include the moonshot Rodgers threw that they failed to connect on. Maybe if they saw each other at game speed more, they would start connecting on those. Janis has played, but often ends up in a blocking assignment more than a targeted one.

[pbmax]

If practices no longer allow young player to ascend, how did Adams climb over Boykin on the depth chart in 2014? To the point of being the focus of the game plan versus the Patriots and Cowboys?

[Patler]

If practices no longer allow young player to ascend, how did Adams climb over Boykin on the depth chart in 2014? To the point of being the focus of the game plan versus the Patriots and Cowboys?

Boykin got hurt, missed games 4, 5 and 6; which gave Adams his chance. Boykin had started games 1-3, never started again after coming back from the injury.

[pbmax]

Boykin got hurt, missed games 4, 5 and 6; which gave Adams his chance. Boykin had started games 1-3, never started again after coming back from the injury.

Adams got hurt this year as well. Missed 4 games completely (4-7).

Monty used this opportunity. Janis did not. Its a little early for Magical Abby.

[beveaux1]

Except that his accuracy was off and talked about even in training camp this year to the point that Rodgers was showing frustration with himself in throwing interceptions in practice (even to the rookie DBs). An excuse was fabricated about him simply throwing passes he normally wouldn't, to see how WRs handled it, giving them a chance to "earn his trust." Rodgers even said it once, which I thought was a flimsy excuse on his part. I started out the season looking for accuracy issues with Rodgers, I noted some questions about it even early in the season when they were winning and he wasn't being hit. I think it has gotten worse, but the accuracy issues were there before the other problems. Very early I questioned whether Rodgers was just having an off year.

There have been some mitigating circumstances relating to Rodgers' off year. Certainly, injuries to the offensive line, to the receivers, coaching changes, even a sporadic running game has fogged the picture as to how much drop off is attributable to Rodgers. I don't claim to be an expert at film study, but a few things have stuck out in watching this season progress.

Rodgers has had what I would call "happy feet" which started around the San Diego game. He began to perceive pressure and would leave the pocket even when there was no real threat. He's always been good at feeling pressure and sliding to the left or right, but for 6 or 7 games he saw pressure that wasn't there, slid out of the pocket and took needless sacks because he moved into the OLs blocking pattern. If he wasn't sacked, he indirectly caused holding penalties, or he threw it away, which leads to the 2nd thing I've noticed.

He stopped making plays with his feet during that same 6 or 7 game stretch. It could be a result of teams using 5 man rushes to block escape lanes, but even when presented with a lane to run he would throw the ball away, or make a throw that would take a herculean effort to catch, or would cause the 3rd thing I noticed.

He made inaccurate throws. This has continued from the Charger game until now. When assessing Rodgers as an elite QB, analysts generally point to arm strength, athleticism in the pocket, decision making, and accuracy. His arm strength is still there. The athleticism is still there and he's shown that in the past 3 games. The decision making and the accuracy have not been at an elite level and are not an elite level today.

Have we ever seen, in year's past, Rodgers throw balls up for grabs in the end zone. Look at the Detroit game, the Chicago game, the Oakland game, and the Arizona game. All games which featured poor throws into the end zone at some point in the game.

Living where I do, I get the chance to watch Cowboys games, Saints games, and Texans games. The Cowboys and Texans have obvious issues with QB play. The Saints don't have those issues on offense regardless of what lineman is nicked up or out, what WR or TE is nicked up or out, or what RB is out. The sole difference is the play of an elite QB. This year, Rodgers play has been that of an above-average QB. In my opinion, it's been far below the elite level QBs, even below the very good QBs. Unless Rodgers returns to the form that made him an MVP, we won't return to the Super Bowl. I don't really think the chances of that happening are very good.

[pbmax]

The best example of him feeling pressure that wasn't there was Cobb open for a TD that Rodgers didn't throw versus Carolina. He came off Cobb instantaneously due to wide pressure. When that pressure was blockeded, he looked elsewhere but someone up the middle was free by then.

[MadtownPacker]

The reality is that the team's talent level is weak compared to 2011 wrt TE/WR. Up until now, the team has relied on the passing game and that is not an option this season. The receiver depth until this point has mitigated Rodgers' flaw of holding the ball too long and helped the pass blocking look better than it ever truly was.

Now the pass blocking looks like shit and Rodgers' flaw is more obvious. Are we really going to point the finger at Rodgers here? To me, it's obvious. Fix the talent in the receiving corps and the issue is resolved. People deny this answer because people are generally stupid and will reject obvious conclusions if they're undesirable.

Specifically it's optimistic to put blame on Rodgers because that would mean things could somehow change all of a sudden and everything would be right. The reality? The fix cannot be applied in this season and we have no hope in the playoffs, but that's tough shit.

I think I have seen this show before!!!

Let me be the one to say it first, Rodgers apologist!!

[pbmax]

I think I have seen this show before!!!

Let me be the one to say it first, Rodgers apologist!!

You are not just rooting for the Official Rodgers The Living Legend thread aren't you?