Is Aaron Rodgers more of the problem than we might think?

[Patler]

Adams got hurt this year as well. Missed 4 games completely (4-7).

Monty used this opportunity. Janis did not. Its a little early for Magical Abby.

I agree, and would go on to say that it isn't impossible for a younger player to surpass another, but as I stated earlier it is hard(er) than it may have been in the past. Even MM commented one time about training camp setting rotations, that become hard for another player to crack into after the season starts. Even being a rookie vs a second year player, Montgomery may have been more ready than Janis at the time of Adams' injury. I have always said Janis could be on the Donald Driver 4 year plan for player development.

From his work as a gunner, Janis strikes me as the type who will improve from doing it. It also strikes me that AR has not zeroed in on Janis' speed yet. I'm not looking for either Abrederis or Janis to move into the starting lineup, but with as poorly as Admas has played I think each of the others could see a few plays directed at them without hurting production. They really aren't getting any from Adams anyway.

[Patler]

There have been some mitigating circumstances relating to Rodgers' off year. Certainly, injuries to the offensive line, to the receivers, coaching changes, even a sporadic running game has fogged the picture as to how much drop off is attributable to Rodgers. I don't claim to be an expert at film study, but a few things have stuck out in watching this season progress.

Rodgers has had what I would call "happy feet" which started around the San Diego game. He began to perceive pressure and would leave the pocket even when there was no real threat. He's always been good at feeling pressure and sliding to the left or right, but for 6 or 7 games he saw pressure that wasn't there, slid out of the pocket and took needless sacks because he moved into the OLs blocking pattern. If he wasn't sacked, he indirectly caused holding penalties, or he threw it away, which leads to the 2nd thing I've noticed.

He stopped making plays with his feet during that same 6 or 7 game stretch. It could be a result of teams using 5 man rushes to block escape lanes, but even when presented with a lane to run he would throw the ball away, or make a throw that would take a herculean effort to catch, or would cause the 3rd thing I noticed.

He made inaccurate throws. This has continued from the Charger game until now. When assessing Rodgers as an elite QB, analysts generally point to arm strength, athleticism in the pocket, decision making, and accuracy. His arm strength is still there. The athleticism is still there and he's shown that in the past 3 games. The decision making and the accuracy have not been at an elite level and are not an elite level today.

Have we ever seen, in year's past, Rodgers throw balls up for grabs in the end zone. Look at the Detroit game, the Chicago game, the Oakland game, and the Arizona game. All games which featured poor throws into the end zone at some point in the game.

Living where I do, I get the chance to watch Cowboys games, Saints games, and Texans games. The Cowboys and Texans have obvious issues with QB play. The Saints don't have those issues on offense regardless of what lineman is nicked up or out, what WR or TE is nicked up or out, or what RB is out. The sole difference is the play of an elite QB. This year, Rodgers play has been that of an above-average QB. In my opinion, it's been far below the elite level QBs, even below the very good QBs. Unless Rodgers returns to the form that made him an MVP, we won't return to the Super Bowl. I don't really think the chances of that happening are very good.

Very good summary of things we have discussed individually on ere the last couple months. I have the same concern that you do, and mentioned last week that AR might be experiencing at 32 what some do not experience until 34, 35, 36, or even later; the erosion of skills that made them truly unique. With Rodgers, that was his accuracy. It is hard if not impossible to get those back once they leave.

The somewhat perplexing thing to me is any real decline in decision making. That does not have to worsen with age, and sometimes even increases even when physical talent wanes. However, if Rodgers is starting to question his own ability to put the ball into tight windows, that couold affect his decision making.

[beveaux1]

Very good summary of things we have discussed individually on ere the last couple months. I have the same concern that you do, and mentioned last week that AR might be experiencing at 32 what some do not experience until 34, 35, 36, or even later; the erosion of skills that made them truly unique. With Rodgers, that was his accuracy. It is hard if not impossible to get those back once they leave.

The somewhat perplexing thing to me is any real decline in decision making. That does not have to worsen with age, and sometimes even increases even when physical talent wanes. However, if Rodgers is starting to question his own ability to put the ball into tight windows, that couold affect his decision making.

I read an article about that very thing. It stated that nearly all the elite quarterbacks have one or two years that are what we would call "off-years". It can occur at any age but it usually occurs in their 30s. Afterwards, their career continues with a QBR as high as it was previously until the inevitable decline. Let's hope Rodgers' decline is not premature.

[pbmax]

- I think you have inverted your standard. You want him to get snaps at WR without earning it during practice so he can learn while doing like he did at gunner. This doesn't represent a change from practices of yore, it represents a change in how starters are selected. Young WRs face a big hurdle to get on the field (see either Jones or Nelson) regularly unless there are injuries. Game like hitting in 11 on 11 or ones versus ones haven't happened in practice since before Infante.

- Rodgers had happy and bad feet while waiting in the pocket as a young starter. He looked very uncomfortable in 2009 until the Cowboys game when they altered the offense. He moved without purpose at times and found pressure when there was none. I'm not sure this is new, more like regression.

- I think the inaccuracy is not due to a decline in skills but due to a distrust of receivers winning their battles. He was fine early in the season when the offense was humming.

[Fosco33]

Teams have figured out our offense for the past few years - some w/ the personnel to make it work. If you can't beat man blitzes - it's gonna be a long night. When you rely on pass penalties because your wrs are getting knocked around - it's gonna be a long night.

I think in order -

1. Lacy and inconsistent running game
2. Inability to get open through athleticism or scheme
3. Rodgers holding ball too long
4. Injuries

I'm nervous that we'll go 0-3 vs division at home and 3-0 on the road... And any decent team can beat the pack in the playoffs. A oat year unless a lot changes.

[Bretsky]

WHERE THERE IS FUEL THERE IS FIRE; PATLER IS ON TO SOMETHING
BIll Scott from GB today came out and noted he thought there was some team discention and noted no surprise if players only meeting is coming soon

A run was called; AROD audibled and threw is to "we all wish you were Allan Robinson" Brick Hands who dropped it. No secret Lang was not happy. Apparently Sitton has now made a comment as well.

There is some shit going on.

My get tells me Clement gave Rodgers infinite rein and now MM wants to take some back.

[pbmax]

^ I can see your last point. I think that is definitely on the table and is what Lang was chirping about. But its not a revolt. It was a run-pass option. Its like being mad a draw was called on third down.

But Bill Scott is the least informed member of the media going. He is routinely laughed at by other reporters for drawing conclusions based on info he has never seen with his own eyes. He does not go to off season practices, camp or in season practices. He is less informed than most members of this forum.

[Rutnstrut]

Bretsky, I think you are 100% correct about Clements giving Rodgers free reign. I think stubby is more strict and Rodgers is now acting like a spoiled child.

[Joemailman]

It's an interesting situation. If there's a rift between McCarthy and Rodgers, I wonder who the other players on offense are inclined to support. Seems like Lang thought they should have run the ball. Or maybe he's just tired of seeing Adams drop passes. I've seen what looked like rather lethargic route running by some of the receivers. Maybe they've lost confidence in McCarthy's offense. Maybe they figure Rodgers isn't going to throw it to them anyway. Just speculating here out of frustration.

[Bretsky]

Offensive Lineman love smack mouth run it down their throat football in general. They also have to be sick of seeing Adams drop balls

[yetisnowman]

Offensive Lineman love smack mouth run it down their throat football in general. They also have to be sick of seeing Adams drop balls

Surely this is all true. However seeing an o-lineman turn 180°, throw his arms up, and say "why did you do that? was pretty weird.....and very concerning.

[denverYooper]

Well... this doesn't help:

Mike Renner @PFF_Mike 20h20 hours ago
Don Barclay has given up the 2nd most sacks in the NFL. He hasn't even played half a season. Maybe just sit ARod this week

[denverYooper]

As far as Jordy not changing team speed, he was fast enough and dangerous enough to where other teams had to play one or both safeties deeper, depending on the talent in the defense. So that usually stretched the opposing defense out. And he played every snap. Right now, they can play all their guys closer to the line because no one forces them to worry about that.

But as you've all hashed out so far, there are a number of issues at this point besides that.

As Rand said elsewhere, the best bet is to play small ball to keep the game close. Use that 4 yards and a cloud of dust passing game with RRodgers, Jones, and Cobb alongside runs from Lacy and Starks. Just keep the chains moving and the clock rolling and play for the last score. It's a humble way to be,but the Packers offense is pretty humble right now.Might as well run what they brung.

[pbmax]

Well... this doesn't help:

Mike Renner @PFF_Mike 20h20 hours ago
Don Barclay has given up the 2nd most sacks in the NFL. He hasn't even played half a season. Maybe just sit ARod this week

And the odd thing is he had been better at Left Tackle. The game where he replaced Bach midway he held up OK. Must have been the matchup because otherwise he has been terrible.

[mraynrand]

Barclay reminds me of the yellow plastic starting gate: