IS IT TIME TO PUT UNTOUCHABLE TED ON TRIAL ? HOW DO YOU GRADE HIM ??

[mraynrand]

Those 3 wins came against 3 of me he 5 worst teams in the nfl this year. We got very lucky with the schedule

For a full season without a-rod this is realistically a 4-12 or 5-11 team

Maybe a full season where he gets injured game 1. Maybe. You don't know that the team wouldn't make a move if they thought he was gone for the year. Maybe the Packers make the trade with NE for Crappola.

[mraynrand]

I assume the one team you mean is the Patriots, but I'd say the Seahawks, Panthers, Broncos, and Steelers haven't been far from the top or drafted very high for quite a while also, and all of them have built better a lot better teams than the Packers minus Aaron Rodgers.

Idiotic take. Take away Wilson, and Seattle maybe has 1-2 wins.

[texaspackerbacker]

Idiotic take. Take away Wilson, and Seattle maybe has 1-2 wins.

His point was the fallacy that drafting low was the excuse for the Packers mediocrity other than Rodgers. My point is Seattle also has drafted pretty low for a long time - along with those others.

Surely you wouldn't suggest that Russell Wilson is even close to Aaron Rodgers quality - would you? And surely you wouldn't suggest the Packers overall talent level other than QB is anywhere near Seattle's - would you?

[3irty1]

I'm not a mob and pitch fork guy. If heads roll I'd like to see it done with calculation as I don't think its ever so simple as addition by subtraction. Most fans tend to blame everything on every level of management which is not occam's razor enough for me to find compelling. In the whos-head-should-roll calculus, Ted is the easiest for me to overlook. He's got the best track record of them all and his old students have spread his success elsewhere. If I were going to roll only one head, and I do prefer the systematic approach of incremental changes over violent revolutions, Ted would be my last choice. We have less to lose with Capers.

[mraynrand]

His point was the fallacy that drafting low was the excuse for the Packers mediocrity other than Rodgers. My point is Seattle also has drafted pretty low for a long time - along with those others....And surely you wouldn't suggest the Packers overall talent level other than QB is anywhere near Seattle's - would you?

They have holes all over their roster. And they have missing draft picks due to trades to fill current holes trying to win this season. I like some of their individual players better than the same position guy on the Packers, but it's a team sport, and the Packers team is better constructed.

Surely you wouldn't suggest that Russell Wilson is even close to Aaron Rodgers quality - would you?

Wilson's value to his team is obvious to anyone who has watched their games. I'd take Rodgers over Wilson, but Wilson is an amazing talent, and the Seachickens would be toast without him - as would almost any team with a great QB.

[pbmax]

I think the call comes down to McCarthy. He has adjusted his offense to draft and develop. Sure, he has tuned the offense to Rodgers to the nth degree, but only a fool and Belichick wouldn't. And he gets Stubby when he has to alter the offense for Hundley, which he should have known after three years.

But there is a more severe disconnect on defense between Dom and the younger players. Mike the 3rd needs to figure that out. Ted isn't going to be able to call that one EXCEPT to insist Capers be gone. If its Perry, or Whitt or the complexity of the weekly game plan, something needs to change and it isn't the damn camp practice schedule.

Even if those individuals are excellent, everyone has a shortcoming. They may need a different messenger as a position coach OR a new designer.

If this year happened in the previous two, I would be more apt to look at personnel. But outside of pass rush, there is a fair amount of untapped talent on defense. Unfortunately, the best new piece (King) is on IT. EDIT And by that, I mean he is volunteering to help the IT department while on IR. The second best new piece (Jones) is an unorthodox safety being asked to be the most orthodox safety role.

[Smidgeon]

Idiotic take. Take away Wilson, and Seattle maybe has 1-2 wins.

Right now even with Russell Wilson, the Seahawks aren't in the playoffs. They need other teams to lose to get in, specifically the NFC South teams.

[mraynrand]

I think the call comes down to McCarthy. He has adjusted his offense to draft and develop. Sure, he has tuned the offense to Rodgers to the nth degree, but only a fool and Belichick wouldn't. And he gets Stubby when he has to alter the offense for Hundley, which he should have known after three years.

But there is a more severe disconnect on defense between Dom and the younger players. Mike the 3rd needs to figure that out. Ted isn't going to be able to call that one EXCEPT to insist Capers be gone. If its Perry, or Whitt or the complexity of the weekly game plan, something needs to change and it isn't the damn camp practice schedule.

Even if those individuals are excellent, everyone has a shortcoming. They may need a different messenger as a position coach OR a new designer.

If this year happened in the previous two, I would be more apt to look at personnel. But outside of pass rush, there is a fair amount of untapped talent on defense. Unfortunately, the best new piece (King) is on IT. EDIT And by that, I mean he is volunteering to help the IT department while on IR. The second best new piece (Jones) is an unorthodox safety being asked to be the most orthodox safety role.

King...IT...we know what you meant.

[Bretsky]

I don't give a flying fuck about pro-bowlers. .

When we're grading out TT we're talking about building a roster around the best QB in the NFL
Don't buy the popularity contests ? The numbers support who makes the Pro Bowl. Which Green Bay Packer deserves to be there and what player was he better than this year ?

[Bretsky]

considering his whole body of work...C. pretty average on talent eval (although he was smart enough not to pass on Rodgers who has masked so many issues with his greatness), kept the team far away from cap problems but that is a double edged sword, well below average on free agency use and impact, and ignored the thought of keeping an experienced back-up for Rodgers. will be in the Packers HOF (maybe the nfl hof) for the one superbowl.

This is where I'm leaning.
If we had an elite GM I think AROD and the talent the GM delivered would have led to more than one Super Bowl

[Bretsky]

Regardless, his overall performance is better than all but NE and maybe Pittsburgh.

NE is a no brainer; if you take the QB out (AROD is far superior to Big Ben) I think the talent around PItt is far better than what we have in GB when everybody is healthy.

All healthy and taking the QB out I think Seattle has more talent as well.

But I think AROD is really by himself in masking deficiencies on offense. Unfortunately on defense we don't have that player.

We're soft....part of that is for sure on DOM....but what player on defense scares the opposition ? Prolly none.

Stat wise our defense is just sickening. TWO sacks in the 4th quarter...HORRID.....Red Zone defense...31st.....Opposing QB rating...320th....Opposing QB completion % 31st

THINK PASS RUSH SHOULD HAVE BEEN A FOCUS LAST YEAR ? That's on ThanksTed

Now all the dam confusion as snaps are occurring...and the huge plays due to missed assignments.....that's on DOM

[beveaux1]

I assume the one team you mean is the Patriots, but I'd say the Seahawks, Panthers, Broncos, and Steelers haven't been far from the top or drafted very high for quite a while also, and all of them have built better a lot better teams than the Packers minus Aaron Rodgers. And you can add to that probably half a dozen more teams that either only had one down year (the Cowboys) or stayed middle of the pack and seldom drafted very high (the Vikings and Falcons).

Somebody said Bakhtiari is a superstar? Come on!

I reject the idea that Hundley was the reason for the team dropping off without Rodgers. Hundley was fairly decent; It just was the O Line, the receivers, and most of the D that were exposed as so mediocre.

In the last 7 drafts, this was the order that each of the teams mentioned was supposed to draft based on their record of the previous year:

[Bretsky]

Teams with really good QBs. Chargers, Saints, Chiefs, Raiders, Steelers, Panthers, Falcons.

I'll take zero or one superbowl wins in the last 10 years for $500 Alex.

Teams with multiple superbowl wins. Patriots, Giants. So Tom Coughlin and Bill Bellicek are the only guys more successful than TT based on SB wins and Only the cheater is overall more successful. I won't even get started about TT building the Seahawks team that Holmgren took to the super bowl with an average QB.

I don't think you can put many of those QB's in the same class as Rodgers. Rodger and Brady....GB and NE.....have elite QB's

the rest are good

[Bretsky]

Idiotic take. Take away Wilson, and Seattle maybe has 1-2 wins.

Not buying this; Seattle's defense is decimated with injuries

Take AROD and Russell out of the picture and assume everybody is healthy. Seattle's roster measures up to GB's just fine

[Bretsky]

I think the call comes down to McCarthy. He has adjusted his offense to draft and develop. Sure, he has tuned the offense to Rodgers to the nth degree, but only a fool and Belichick wouldn't. And he gets Stubby when he has to alter the offense for Hundley, which he should have known after three years.

But there is a more severe disconnect on defense between Dom and the younger players. Mike the 3rd needs to figure that out. Ted isn't going to be able to call that one EXCEPT to insist Capers be gone. If its Perry, or Whitt or the complexity of the weekly game plan, something needs to change and it isn't the damn camp practice schedule.

Even if those individuals are excellent, everyone has a shortcoming. They may need a different messenger as a position coach OR a new designer.

If this year happened in the previous two, I would be more apt to look at personnel. But outside of pass rush, there is a fair amount of untapped talent on defense. Unfortunately, the best new piece (King) is on IT. EDIT And by that, I mean he is volunteering to help the IT department while on IR. The second best new piece (Jones) is an unorthodox safety being asked to be the most orthodox safety role.

This is why we have to seize the opportunity to go 7-9, but a top 12 pick....refuel with an elite defensive player (Mosley or Shazier like) that we never have a shot of cause AROD carries out asses to so many wins....restock, and win the dam Super Bowl next year !!