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IS IT TIME TO PUT UNTOUCHABLE TED ON TRIAL ? HOW DO YOU GRADE HIM ??

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Bretsky View Post
    When we're grading out TT we're talking about building a roster around the best QB in the NFL
    Don't buy the popularity contests ? The numbers support who makes the Pro Bowl. Which Green Bay Packer deserves to be there and what player was he better than this year ?
    Bach, Adams, Linsley, Clark and Ponch plus Janis on special teams.

    But more to the overall point, Pro Bowls go to teams with currently remarkable seasons. Without Rodgers, everyone else gets downgraded due to record and less exposure.
    Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Bretsky View Post
      When we're grading out TT we're talking about building a roster around the best QB in the NFL
      Don't buy the popularity contests ? The numbers support who makes the Pro Bowl. Which Green Bay Packer deserves to be there and what player was he better than this year ?
      How about Jeff Saturday when he was on the Packers. He made the Pro Bowl and was benched by the Packers that year for horrible play.
      But Rodgers leads the league in frumpy expressions and negative body language on the sideline, which makes him, like Josh Allen, a unique double threat.

      -Tim Harmston

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by texaspackerbacker View Post
        I assume the one team you mean is the Patriots, but I'd say the Seahawks, Panthers, Broncos, and Steelers haven't been far from the top or drafted very high for quite a while also, and all of them have built better a lot better teams than the Packers minus Aaron Rodgers. And you can add to that probably half a dozen more teams that either only had one down year (the Cowboys) or stayed middle of the pack and seldom drafted very high (the Vikings and Falcons).

        Somebody said Bakhtiari is a superstar? Come on!

        I reject the idea that Hundley was the reason for the team dropping off without Rodgers. Hundley was fairly decent; It just was the O Line, the receivers, and most of the D that were exposed as so mediocre.
        In the last 7 drafts, this was the order that each of the teams mentioned was supposed to draft based on their record of the previous year:

        Green Bay Atlanta Dallas Minnesota
        2017 29 31 28 14
        2016 27 17 4 23
        2015 30 8 27 11
        2014 21 6 16 9
        2013 26 22 18 23
        2012 28 22 6 4
        2011 32 26 9 12

        Other than the Packers, each one of these teams had at least 2 picks in the top 10 during the past 7 years. Only once, last year with the Falcons, did one of these teams draft after the Packers, based on their record. These teams should be doing much better than the Packers based on their position in the draft. The fact that they have not consistently, or even inconsistently played better than the Packers makes the argument that Thompson has , at least, been a good GM.

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        • #49
          If you overestimate Rodgers by even a little, you seem to devalue the rest of the roster in this kind of analysis.

          Rodgers has struggled with being All World when his unit has been decimated with injuries. Even if he is 8% better than Brady and Ben, that doesn't make the rest of the unit terrible.
          Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by beveaux1 View Post
            In the last 7 drafts, this was the order that each of the teams mentioned was supposed to draft based on their record of the previous year:



            Other than the Packers, each one of these teams had at least 2 picks in the top 10 during the past 7 years. Only once, last year with the Falcons, did one of these teams draft after the Packers, based on their record. These teams should be doing much better than the Packers based on their position in the draft. The fact that they have not consistently, or even inconsistently played better than the Packers makes the argument that Thompson has , at least, been a good GM.

            Code:
                             Green Bay        Atlanta         Dallas        Minnesota
            2017               29                31              28              14
            2016               27                17               4              23
            2015               30                8               27              11
            2014               21                6               16               9
            2013               26                22              18              23
            2012               28                22               6               4
            2011               32                26               9              12
            Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Bretsky View Post
              When we're grading out TT we're talking about building a roster around the best QB in the NFL
              Don't buy the popularity contests ? The numbers support who makes the Pro Bowl. Which Green Bay Packer deserves to be there and what player was he better than this year ?
              I don’t care. Successful teams have more pro bowlers the next year because people know who they are.

              I look at team success and cumulative success. Based on that TT is top 3-4 in the NFL.
              "Never, never ever support a punk like mraynrand. Rather be as I am and feel real sympathy for his sickness." - Woodbuck

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              • #52
                You could basically get Bretsky's or red's preferred player in each year with the differences in average or median of their draft position:

                Code:
                	GB	Atl	Boys	Vikes
                Avg	27.57	18.86	15.43	13.71
                Median	28	22	16	12
                Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by mraynrand View Post
                  Maybe a full season where he gets injured game 1. Maybe. You don't know that the team wouldn't make a move if they thought he was gone for the year. Maybe the Packers make the trade with NE for Crappola.
                  That's fucking funny as hell. There is no way TT would make a major move and especially not during the season. He would just get some unheard of guy off the street to add to the PS.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by pbmax View Post
                    Bach, Adams, Linsley, Clark and Ponch plus Janis on special teams.

                    But more to the overall point, Pro Bowls go to teams with currently remarkable seasons. Without Rodgers, everyone else gets downgraded due to record and less exposure.
                    The Packers have always been underrepresented at the Pro Bowl.
                    No longer the member of any fan clubs. I'm tired of jinxing players out of the league and into obscurity.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by pbmax View Post
                      Bach, Adams, Linsley, Clark and Ponch plus Janis on special teams.

                      But more to the overall point, Pro Bowls go to teams with currently remarkable seasons. Without Rodgers, everyone else gets downgraded due to record and less exposure.

                      Who are you saying any of he above was better than ?

                      With Rodgers, every else gets upgraded due to him carrying us to wins and more national exposure.

                      That argument can work either way.

                      I think Adams may be close. Maybe Bach close. The others.....nah...bottom line....how many teams were shut out ?

                      Also, nobody is that close on the defensive side of the ball at this point.
                      TERD Buckley over Troy Vincent, Robert Ferguson over Chris Chambers, Kevn King instead of TJ Watt, and now, RICH GANNON, over JIMMY JIMMY JIMMY LEONARD. Thank you FLOWER

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by mraynrand View Post
                        I don’t care. Successful teams have more pro bowlers the next year because people know who they are.

                        I look at team success and cumulative success. Based on that TT is top 3-4 in the NFL.

                        I've pretty much felt forever having the best player in the NFL gets us pretty close to 8 wins. By your logic GB has made several nice runs so if you are into the next year theory we should be getting a ton of recognition right now followed by very little next year . Championships; we got one. Go get more TT if you want elevation in my book. He's ok. If he leaves this year I'm fine. With AROD as our QB we're making the playoffs most years. Surround him with better talent and we'll make the Big Show again soon.
                        TERD Buckley over Troy Vincent, Robert Ferguson over Chris Chambers, Kevn King instead of TJ Watt, and now, RICH GANNON, over JIMMY JIMMY JIMMY LEONARD. Thank you FLOWER

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          INTERESTING COMMENTS BY PETE DOUGHERTY....PACKER BEAT WRITER FROM JS......RED MIGHT HAVE BROKEN INTO CHAT....STATED PACKERS ARE A BOTTOM 10 TALENT TEAM outside of QB. FOR THE RECORD I DON"T THINK THEY ARE NEAR BOTTOM 10; from this I'd guess he would give TT a C as well.


                          I'm not sure if they're bottom 10 in overall talent or not. I mean, it's probably borderline. Bakhtiari is a Pro Bowler even though he didn't get in. Daniels is right there but plays a position that's strong in the NFC. I mean, I get what you're saying, and maybe they are bottom 10. But they might be just a little better than that. I'll be curious to see how Philly does in the playoffs. I know there was a lot said about how good they are overall, and their defense, or at least their defensive front, definitely is better than the Packers.'. But it looked to me like Wentz's improvement was the reason they went from six or whatever wins last year to maybe best team in the NFC this year. I think they're done now that he's done. We'll see.
                          TERD Buckley over Troy Vincent, Robert Ferguson over Chris Chambers, Kevn King instead of TJ Watt, and now, RICH GANNON, over JIMMY JIMMY JIMMY LEONARD. Thank you FLOWER

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by pbmax View Post
                            Code:
                                             Green Bay        Atlanta         Dallas        Minnesota
                            2017               29                31              28              14
                            2016               27                17               4              23
                            2015               30                8               27              11
                            2014               21                6               16               9
                            2013               26                22              18              23
                            2012               28                22               6               4
                            2011               32                26               9              12
                            Thanks, PB. Obviously, charts are not my strong suit.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              The scope is this question is the past 5 years. What great player has he acquired in the past 5 years? David Bahktiari. That's it.

                              In 2013, the Packers and Vikings were two of the NFL’s worst defenses. Since then, though, these defenses have taken decidedly different paths.


                              Grading scale:
                              3 starters, 2 good, 1 average/bad = A (4.0)
                              3 starters, 1 good, 2 average/bad = B (3.0)
                              2 starters, 1 good, 1 average/bad = C (2.0)
                              2 starters, 2 average/bad = D (1.0)
                              1 starter, 1 good = D (0.0)
                              1 or less starter, bad = F


                              2012 - Two second contracts as starter, one good, one average. Draft grade is C due to 2 starters where only is a good player.
                              Perry - average
                              Worthy - bad
                              Hayward - average, gone
                              Daniels - good
                              McMillion - bad
                              Manning - bad
                              Datko - bad
                              Coleman - bad

                              2013 - One second contact as starter, 1 special, no one else note worthy. Draft grade is D due to one starter, albeit the Packers second best player at a key position.
                              Datone Jones - bad, gone
                              Eddie Lacy - average, gone
                              Bakhtiari - special
                              Tretter - below average, gone
                              Franklin - bad, gone
                              Hyde - average, gone
                              Boyd - bad
                              Palmer - bad
                              Johnson - bad
                              Dorsey - bad
                              Barrington - bad

                              2014 - Three (presumably) second contracts as starters, Two good players, one average player. Draft grade is A
                              Dix - good (historically, down year)
                              Adams - good
                              Thorton - bad
                              Rodgers - below average
                              Bradford - bad
                              Linsley - average
                              Abbrederis - bad
                              Goodson - bad
                              Janis - average

                              Projecting 2015 - Presumably 2-3 second contracts as starter though one is a fullback. Two average players, other show potential but are constantly hurt. Draft grade is C at best. Randall is an average #1 at best (that's being generous). Ripkowski is an average fullback (irrelevant). Ryan is nothing special. Rollins and Monty have potential but are always hurt.
                              Randall - average
                              Rollins - bad (so far)
                              Montgomery - bad (so far)
                              Ryan - below average
                              Hundley - average
                              Ripkowski - average
                              Ringo - bad
                              Backman - bad

                              Projecting 2016 - Presumably 3 starters signed to second contracts as starters. Clark is looking pretty darn good. Martinez and Lowry are average starters at their positions. Draft grade is an B
                              Clark - good
                              Spriggs - bad
                              Fackrell - bad
                              Martinez - average
                              Lowry - average
                              Davis - bad
                              Murphy - bad

                              Projecting 2017 - Jury is still out but there is no reason to suspect a star out of this class. There is a lot of starting potential here but we'll see. The jury is still out.
                              King - good (give him benefit of doubt)
                              Jones - bad so far, incomplete
                              Adams - incomplete
                              Biegel - incomplete
                              Williams - average
                              Jones - average
                              Amichia - bad
                              Mays - bad


                              Summary:
                              GPA - ~2.4 on average

                              Based on my scale and some basic math, TT's GPA is 2.4 over the past 5 years. That's not very good. It's time to make a change here. Part of it is since 2012 so many of his draftees have been very injury prone. They have the medical info ahead of time so perhaps they're taking too many risks there.

                              His best draft by far is 2014 with two above average starters and one average one. His worst year was 2013 where there is not a single player still on the squad aside from the excellent Bakhtiari.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                You have no basis for your scale. Either we do the rest of the League and adjust for draft position, or this means little, though I thank you for the all the draft picks in one spot listing.

                                Your grades are interesting too. Don't see how Jones and Williams grade out to average.
                                Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.

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