IS IT TIME TO PUT UNTOUCHABLE TED ON TRIAL ? HOW DO YOU GRADE HIM ??

[pbmax]

When we're grading out TT we're talking about building a roster around the best QB in the NFL
Don't buy the popularity contests ? The numbers support who makes the Pro Bowl. Which Green Bay Packer deserves to be there and what player was he better than this year ?

Bach, Adams, Linsley, Clark and Ponch plus Janis on special teams.

But more to the overall point, Pro Bowls go to teams with currently remarkable seasons. Without Rodgers, everyone else gets downgraded due to record and less exposure.

[ThunderDan]

When we're grading out TT we're talking about building a roster around the best QB in the NFL
Don't buy the popularity contests ? The numbers support who makes the Pro Bowl. Which Green Bay Packer deserves to be there and what player was he better than this year ?

How about Jeff Saturday when he was on the Packers. He made the Pro Bowl and was benched by the Packers that year for horrible play.

[beveaux1]

I assume the one team you mean is the Patriots, but I'd say the Seahawks, Panthers, Broncos, and Steelers haven't been far from the top or drafted very high for quite a while also, and all of them have built better a lot better teams than the Packers minus Aaron Rodgers. And you can add to that probably half a dozen more teams that either only had one down year (the Cowboys) or stayed middle of the pack and seldom drafted very high (the Vikings and Falcons).

Somebody said Bakhtiari is a superstar? Come on!

I reject the idea that Hundley was the reason for the team dropping off without Rodgers. Hundley was fairly decent; It just was the O Line, the receivers, and most of the D that were exposed as so mediocre.

In the last 7 drafts, this was the order that each of the teams mentioned was supposed to draft based on their record of the previous year:

Green Bay Atlanta Dallas Minnesota
2017 29 31 28 14
2016 27 17 4 23
2015 30 8 27 11
2014 21 6 16 9
2013 26 22 18 23
2012 28 22 6 4
2011 32 26 9 12

Other than the Packers, each one of these teams had at least 2 picks in the top 10 during the past 7 years. Only once, last year with the Falcons, did one of these teams draft after the Packers, based on their record. These teams should be doing much better than the Packers based on their position in the draft. The fact that they have not consistently, or even inconsistently played better than the Packers makes the argument that Thompson has , at least, been a good GM.

[pbmax]

If you overestimate Rodgers by even a little, you seem to devalue the rest of the roster in this kind of analysis.

Rodgers has struggled with being All World when his unit has been decimated with injuries. Even if he is 8% better than Brady and Ben, that doesn't make the rest of the unit terrible.

[pbmax]

In the last 7 drafts, this was the order that each of the teams mentioned was supposed to draft based on their record of the previous year:



Other than the Packers, each one of these teams had at least 2 picks in the top 10 during the past 7 years. Only once, last year with the Falcons, did one of these teams draft after the Packers, based on their record. These teams should be doing much better than the Packers based on their position in the draft. The fact that they have not consistently, or even inconsistently played better than the Packers makes the argument that Thompson has , at least, been a good GM.

                 Green Bay        Atlanta         Dallas        Minnesota
2017               29                31              28              14
2016               27                17               4              23
2015               30                8               27              11
2014               21                6               16               9
2013               26                22              18              23
2012               28                22               6               4
2011               32                26               9              12

[mraynrand]

When we're grading out TT we're talking about building a roster around the best QB in the NFL
Don't buy the popularity contests ? The numbers support who makes the Pro Bowl. Which Green Bay Packer deserves to be there and what player was he better than this year ?

I don’t care. Successful teams have more pro bowlers the next year because people know who they are.

I look at team success and cumulative success. Based on that TT is top 3-4 in the NFL.

[pbmax]

You could basically get Bretsky's or red's preferred player in each year with the differences in average or median of their draft position:

	GB	Atl	Boys	Vikes
Avg	27.57	18.86	15.43	13.71
Median	28	22	16	12

[Rutnstrut]

Maybe a full season where he gets injured game 1. Maybe. You don't know that the team wouldn't make a move if they thought he was gone for the year. Maybe the Packers make the trade with NE for Crappola.

That's fucking funny as hell. There is no way TT would make a major move and especially not during the season. He would just get some unheard of guy off the street to add to the PS.

[Smidgeon]

Bach, Adams, Linsley, Clark and Ponch plus Janis on special teams.

But more to the overall point, Pro Bowls go to teams with currently remarkable seasons. Without Rodgers, everyone else gets downgraded due to record and less exposure.

The Packers have always been underrepresented at the Pro Bowl.

[Bretsky]

Bach, Adams, Linsley, Clark and Ponch plus Janis on special teams.

But more to the overall point, Pro Bowls go to teams with currently remarkable seasons. Without Rodgers, everyone else gets downgraded due to record and less exposure.

Who are you saying any of he above was better than ?

With Rodgers, every else gets upgraded due to him carrying us to wins and more national exposure.

That argument can work either way.

I think Adams may be close. Maybe Bach close. The others.....nah...bottom line....how many teams were shut out ?

Also, nobody is that close on the defensive side of the ball at this point.

[Bretsky]

I don’t care. Successful teams have more pro bowlers the next year because people know who they are.

I look at team success and cumulative success. Based on that TT is top 3-4 in the NFL.

I've pretty much felt forever having the best player in the NFL gets us pretty close to 8 wins. By your logic GB has made several nice runs so if you are into the next year theory we should be getting a ton of recognition right now followed by very little next year . Championships; we got one. Go get more TT if you want elevation in my book. He's ok. If he leaves this year I'm fine. With AROD as our QB we're making the playoffs most years. Surround him with better talent and we'll make the Big Show again soon.

[Bretsky]

INTERESTING COMMENTS BY PETE DOUGHERTY....PACKER BEAT WRITER FROM JS......RED MIGHT HAVE BROKEN INTO CHAT....STATED PACKERS ARE A BOTTOM 10 TALENT TEAM outside of QB. FOR THE RECORD I DON"T THINK THEY ARE NEAR BOTTOM 10; from this I'd guess he would give TT a C as well.


I'm not sure if they're bottom 10 in overall talent or not. I mean, it's probably borderline. Bakhtiari is a Pro Bowler even though he didn't get in. Daniels is right there but plays a position that's strong in the NFC. I mean, I get what you're saying, and maybe they are bottom 10. But they might be just a little better than that. I'll be curious to see how Philly does in the playoffs. I know there was a lot said about how good they are overall, and their defense, or at least their defensive front, definitely is better than the Packers.'. But it looked to me like Wentz's improvement was the reason they went from six or whatever wins last year to maybe best team in the NFC this year. I think they're done now that he's done. We'll see.

[beveaux1]

                 Green Bay        Atlanta         Dallas        Minnesota
2017               29                31              28              14
2016               27                17               4              23
2015               30                8               27              11
2014               21                6               16               9
2013               26                22              18              23
2012               28                22               6               4
2011               32                26               9              12

Thanks, PB. Obviously, charts are not my strong suit.

[call_me_ishmael]

The scope is this question is the past 5 years. What great player has he acquired in the past 5 years? David Bahktiari. That's it.

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/dougherty/2017/12/22/dougherty-vikings-getting-better-packers-draft/977791001/

Grading scale:
3 starters, 2 good, 1 average/bad = A (4.0)
3 starters, 1 good, 2 average/bad = B (3.0)
2 starters, 1 good, 1 average/bad = C (2.0)
2 starters, 2 average/bad = D (1.0)
1 starter, 1 good = D (0.0)
1 or less starter, bad = F


2012 - Two second contracts as starter, one good, one average. Draft grade is C due to 2 starters where only is a good player.
Perry - average
Worthy - bad
Hayward - average, gone
Daniels - good
McMillion - bad
Manning - bad
Datko - bad
Coleman - bad

2013 - One second contact as starter, 1 special, no one else note worthy. Draft grade is D due to one starter, albeit the Packers second best player at a key position.
Datone Jones - bad, gone
Eddie Lacy - average, gone
Bakhtiari - special
Tretter - below average, gone
Franklin - bad, gone
Hyde - average, gone
Boyd - bad
Palmer - bad
Johnson - bad
Dorsey - bad
Barrington - bad

2014 - Three (presumably) second contracts as starters, Two good players, one average player. Draft grade is A
Dix - good (historically, down year)
Adams - good
Thorton - bad
Rodgers - below average
Bradford - bad
Linsley - average
Abbrederis - bad
Goodson - bad
Janis - average

Projecting 2015 - Presumably 2-3 second contracts as starter though one is a fullback. Two average players, other show potential but are constantly hurt. Draft grade is C at best. Randall is an average #1 at best (that's being generous). Ripkowski is an average fullback (irrelevant). Ryan is nothing special. Rollins and Monty have potential but are always hurt.
Randall - average
Rollins - bad (so far)
Montgomery - bad (so far)
Ryan - below average
Hundley - average
Ripkowski - average
Ringo - bad
Backman - bad

Projecting 2016 - Presumably 3 starters signed to second contracts as starters. Clark is looking pretty darn good. Martinez and Lowry are average starters at their positions. Draft grade is an B
Clark - good
Spriggs - bad
Fackrell - bad
Martinez - average
Lowry - average
Davis - bad
Murphy - bad

Projecting 2017 - Jury is still out but there is no reason to suspect a star out of this class. There is a lot of starting potential here but we'll see. The jury is still out.
King - good (give him benefit of doubt)
Jones - bad so far, incomplete
Adams - incomplete
Biegel - incomplete
Williams - average
Jones - average
Amichia - bad
Mays - bad


Summary:
GPA - ~2.4 on average

Based on my scale and some basic math, TT's GPA is 2.4 over the past 5 years. That's not very good. It's time to make a change here. Part of it is since 2012 so many of his draftees have been very injury prone. They have the medical info ahead of time so perhaps they're taking too many risks there.

His best draft by far is 2014 with two above average starters and one average one. His worst year was 2013 where there is not a single player still on the squad aside from the excellent Bakhtiari.

[pbmax]

You have no basis for your scale. Either we do the rest of the League and adjust for draft position, or this means little, though I thank you for the all the draft picks in one spot listing.

Your grades are interesting too. Don't see how Jones and Williams grade out to average.