IS IT TIME TO PUT UNTOUCHABLE TED ON TRIAL ? HOW DO YOU GRADE HIM ??

[mraynrand]

And the Patriots get caught cheating just enough so that you don't trust that type of success is truly attainable on honest terms.

Holidays with the Patriots...

[woodbuck27]

Gee I'm in the Christmas Spirit and thus very generous today.

Too generous:

I rated him a C.

I'll be overjoyed when he retires.

[bobblehead]

His point was the fallacy that drafting low was the excuse for the Packers mediocrity other than Rodgers. My point is Seattle also has drafted pretty low for a long time - along with those others.

Surely you wouldn't suggest that Russell Wilson is even close to Aaron Rodgers quality - would you? And surely you wouldn't suggest the Packers overall talent level other than QB is anywhere near Seattle's - would you?

Have you seen the seahawks offensive line? Its offensive.

[bobblehead]

I assume the one team you mean is the Patriots, but I'd say the Seahawks, Panthers, Broncos, and Steelers haven't been far from the top or drafted very high for quite a while also, and all of them have built better a lot better teams than the Packers minus Aaron Rodgers. And you can add to that probably half a dozen more teams that either only had one down year (the Cowboys) or stayed middle of the pack and seldom drafted very high (the Vikings and Falcons).

Somebody said Bakhtiari is a superstar? Come on!

I reject the idea that Hundley was the reason for the team dropping off without Rodgers. Hundley was fairly decent; It just was the O Line, the receivers, and most of the D that were exposed as so mediocre.

You don't just get to declare that those teams have drafted as low as the packers and there team is better. You actually have to back that argument up. I could destroy the statement should I take the time to, but I won't bother responding to a lazy post with my research.

[ZachMN]

I love how there is an obsession with stats. I trust my eyes. It's not fair to make it all about TT. It's a package deal. He's married to M3 and they have a philosophy and in Capers defense ( no pun intended) he's doing what M3 wants. M3 believes he will more often than not have a lead and the other team will be throwing a lot and taking risks. The defense is predicated on takeaways thus giving our offense more possessions. I admit this worked during the superbowl run but MY EYES see confusion on the defensive side (secondary most often) a team that seriously doesn't look ready to play ( especially in big games) and seems to take an entire half to warm up and get rolling sometimes. I also feel that M3 lacks a killer instinct. We had an offense that could have put 75 up more than once in the last three or four years. I mean wasn't there a game against the 'queens where we had 21 in the first quarter? Hammer these teams. I can tell some of you don't like Belichik but he's got a killer instinct and he's a winner. He goes for it on fourth down when he's up by 21. I like that attitude. I know some of you don't but this is football. It's physical and about attitude. Forget a prissy milquetoast defensive strategy like we currently have and build a BIG defense. Defense travels. Big teams stay big as the year goes on. Fast teams slow down. We play in a cold climate. Have a D line like the Giants did during their two superbowl runs and your other two levels automatically get better. We pass on Watt and take King. Bad decision. Watt makes whoever is paying cb better in my opinion because he can rush the passer. TT is 40% of the problem. It's him and M3...I give Capers a partial pass as he's doing their bidding.

[Bretsky]

And after seeing this vote, I definitely see why the haters are so loud! They must feel horribly out numbered and alone in their belief.

I'm not sure what category you put haters (maybe F area) in,but I see 12 votes for A and B and 11 votes for C and D

[red]

does anyone have a screen cap of TT sitting in the booth looking like corky from "life goes on"?

[mraynrand]

does anyone have a screen cap of TT sitting in the booth looking like corky from "life goes on"?

I'm not giving it to you. If you don't get there first, that will be my new avatar.

[red]

I'm not giving it to you. If you don't get there first, that will be my new avatar.

too late

[call_me_ishmael]

You have no basis for your scale. Either we do the rest of the League and adjust for draft position, or this means little, though I thank you for the all the draft picks in one spot listing.

Your grades are interesting too. Don't see how Jones and Williams grade out to average.

You view them as better than average starters in the league? They aren't even starters in a GB when Ty in healthy. They look decent enough - average RBs as starters to me.

Sorry, I sort of take offense to this because my write-up is spot on. Is a player a good player, a great player, an average player, a bad player, etc. It's black and white. There is no complex algorithm. It's a simple question. Is this person good (if they were a starter if they're not).

The second contract as starter metric is incredibly valuable. If a player goes on and has success, that's fine, but that just means TT didn't think enough of them to sign them as a second contract starter. This is the ultimate measure of a drafter.

The scale is very similar to Ron Wolfe's WRT to judging a draft. TT scores a 2.4 in the past 5 years. Pretty bad.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I love how there is an obsession with stats. I trust my eyes. It's not fair to make it all about TT. It's a package deal. He's married to M3 and they have a philosophy and in Capers defense ( no pun intended) he's doing what M3 wants. M3 believes he will more often than not have a lead and the other team will be throwing a lot and taking risks. The defense is predicated on takeaways thus giving our offense more possessions. I admit this worked during the superbowl run but MY EYES see confusion on the defensive side (secondary most often) a team that seriously doesn't look ready to play ( especially in big games) and seems to take an entire half to warm up and get rolling sometimes. I also feel that M3 lacks a killer instinct. We had an offense that could have put 75 up more than once in the last three or four years. I mean wasn't there a game against the 'queens where we had 21 in the first quarter? Hammer these teams. I can tell some of you don't like Belichik but he's got a killer instinct and he's a winner. He goes for it on fourth down when he's up by 21. I like that attitude. I know some of you don't but this is football. It's physical and about attitude. Forget a prissy milquetoast defensive strategy like we currently have and build a BIG defense. Defense travels. Big teams stay big as the year goes on. Fast teams slow down. We play in a cold climate. Have a D line like the Giants did during their two superbowl runs and your other two levels automatically get better. We pass on Watt and take King. Bad decision. Watt makes whoever is paying cb better in my opinion because he can rush the passer. TT is 40% of the problem. It's him and M3...I give Capers a partial pass as he's doing their bidding.

Great post. My old eyes see a lot of the same things.

[mraynrand]

Sorry, I sort of take offense to this because my write-up is spot on. Is a player a good player, a great player, an average player, a bad player, etc. It's black and white. There is no complex algorithm. It's a simple question. Is this person good (if they were a starter if they're not)..

[pbmax]

Packers offense and margin of victory (not including this year) are neck and neck with Patriots.

The problem isn't killer instinct, its end of game clock management.

[ZachMN]

Packers offense and margin of victory (not including this year) are neck and neck with Patriots.

The problem isn't killer instinct, its end of game clock management.

Disagree on the killer instinct....so if clock management is to blame that falls under incompetence now doesn't it? EDIT And now that I think about what you posted your statement is absurd. You use meaningless stats to say we are neck and neck with the Pats. Since TT, M3 and Rodgers have been here how many Superbowls have the Packers won/appeared in compared to the Pats? That's what this is about...not arcane numbers which in the end may tell you something but more often than not cause delusion. I'll quote Bud Grant here: 'stats are for losers'. Shoe fits with this regime Cinderella! You can site all the numbers and third down stats etc in the end winning and winning the important games is what matters. We fail there. So when I said all I have is the scoreboard in response to another poster in another thread wasn't capitulating. I was serious. Keep drinking the kool aid folks.

[pbmax]

Disagree on the killer instinct....so if clock management is to blame that falls under incompetence now doesn't it?

I agree, its one dimensional thinking.

But vince has some compelling arguments and data that McCarthy's record, regardless of poor clock management, is fantastic in close, late games.

So we are talking about a few notable failures.

Every coach has foibles. The question is how big are they and how bad do they effect the games? This one is not the worst.