Is Aaron Rodgers even good anymore?

[gbgary]

I think part of the problem is that we are used to super Rodgers that can carry a team with bad coaching and mediocre talent. The last few years Rodgers has been showing his human side more and more, the writing has been on the wall. Add to that he was injured, and the Packers piss poor job of getting talent around him. He is playing at a mere human level now and there is little talent around him to help.

that and the all the key guys have gotten old at the same time.

[call_me_ishmael]

I mean, we all say the talent is horrible, but in the same breath we all say Aaron Jones is uniquely special and a difference maker, Devante Adams is a top 5 WR, and Bakhtiari is a premier LT along with a quality center. So, what gives? I agree they need more talent but it's not he's throwing the ball to Taco Wallace with Samkon Gado in the backfield.

[pbmax]

I mean, we all say the talent is horrible, but in the same breath we all say Aaron Jones is uniquely special and a difference maker, Devante Adams is a top 5 WR, and Bakhtiari is a premier LT along with a quality center. So, what gives? I agree they need more talent but it's not he's throwing the ball to Taco Wallace with Samkon Gado in the backfield.

Like the defense, the disconnect is between the people who handed over the talent and the coaches who work with it. With an added bonus. Rodgers is still playing like the offense should resemble 2014 or 2016. That isn't working anymore.

[Rutnstrut]

Like the defense, the disconnect is between the people who handed over the talent and the coaches who work with it. With an added bonus. Rodgers is still playing like the offense should resemble 2014 or 2016. That isn't working anymore.

So is Rodgers stubby 2.0 or is he really version 1.

[beveaux1]

I think we all just have to agree that this year is a lost cause, even insofar as Rodgers getting "back on track." We'd hoped that firing MM would somehow have helped, but it clearly did not.

So it is what it is this year, and we all must simply hope that with a better offensive line, this year's experience for the young receivers, and some time to heal, that Rodgers will return to his old form next year.

I think I'd start playing Kizer here and there. You've got to get a bead on whether you think he can be a competent NFL backup.

I agree with this. I think that in this offense it takes experience for WRs to earn Rodgers' trust. During Rodgers' time with the team, approximately every 2 to 3 years, we drafted a WR in the 2nd or 3rd round. That WR was either the number 3 or 4 receiver his first year, moved up the chart the next year, and became a trusted No. 1 or 2 after his 3rd year. After Adams was drafted in 2014, we have not used a high draft pick on a WR, and the lack of talent and experience shows.

I'm going to assume the bulk of his problems this year have been the talent on the field. If we assume that they're rounding routes, going to the wrong depth on the route, making the wrong read, starting their cut too late or too soon, or a myriad other problems having to do with inexperience or lack of talent, Rodgers' comments about the "details" not being right would strongly contribute to what I have viewed as his being inaccurate.

I think Adams' numbers would show that Rodgers has certainly been accurate to that particular receiver. If we limit the perceived poor throws and inaccuracies to receivers that have been in this system 3 or more years, in other words, to Adams, Allison, Cobb, and Kendricks, the number of poor throws is reduced dramatically. I can think of less than 5 bad throws to Adams, maybe 3 to Cobb, and very few to Kendricks or Allison.

Without seeing film from past years, we can't accurately gauge whether Rodgers has been overlooking checkdown receivers more this year than in the past. What we can do is look at the number of receptions by RBs and TEs, primary checkdown receivers (except Finley who functioned almost like a WR), in past years and compare them to this year. Not surprisingly, this year's closest match, in terms of statistics, was 2015 when Nelson was lost for the season, Adams had a hurt calf, and Cobb had various injuries. Rodgers' completion percentage was his career low, QBR career low, R. Rodgers had 58 catches and Starks 43 catches good for 2nd and 5th on the team. Every other year, RBs and checkdown TEs were far down the list in number of receptions. My conclusion would be that Rodgers doesn't like the checkdown and really doesn't use the checkdown.

Rodgers has been saying that his accuracy is not appreciably worse this year than in years past. He says the "details" are the main problems that the offense has been having. The fact that the young receivers catch very few balls and seem to disappear from the game lends some truth to his statements. My conclusion would be that Rodgers and this particular offense is much more affected by personnel than Brady, Brees, Rivers, or P. Manning and, to give him the benefit of the doubt, his play may not have slipped. But, without contrary evidence, he may not be the GOAT, just an excellent QB given the proper receiving talent.

[call_me_ishmael]

I am just saying put Peyton or Brady in the offense and this team has lost 3 games or less. I think we can all agree the Rodgers is a peer of these two in terms of arm talent and mental talent. The difference in Manning and Brady play within the system. Rodgers doesn't.

For the crap hand the defense has been dealt by an anemic offense, the D has held up remarkably well over the season and is clearly the superior squad right now.

[pbmax]

I am just saying put Peyton or Brady in the offense and this team has lost 3 games or less. I think we can all agree the Rodgers is a peer of these two in terms of arm talent and mental talent. The difference in Manning and Brady play within the system. Rodgers doesn't.

For the crap hand the defense has been dealt by an anemic offense, the D has held up remarkably well over the season and is clearly the superior squad right now.

It's too simple a read. Manning wouldn't join this team unless he could run HIS offense. There is ample evidence around of coaches talking that its actually Mannings offense, no one else.

Brady was a limited passer in their first two Super Bowl wins. He might not be able to run any offense this well except Belichick's.

[The Shadow]

Stale passing game. Packers' receivers are almost never open; Rodgers has to constantly force the ball into tight windows. Overdue for a new fresh offensive approach.

[red]

Stale passing game. Packers' receivers are almost never open; Rodgers has to constantly force the ball into tight windows. Overdue for a new fresh offensive approach.

Except that after the game pb posts videos showing 2 or 3 guys open on each play, they just aren’t the deep guy that a-rod is staring down

[pbmax]

Yeah, at this point 50% of this trouble is willful touchdown to check down.

To a point, I agree with that approach. You've seen with Shanahan's lesser offenses and with the Bears at times with Trubisky, if everything is short, you often don't get to the sticks for a first down. Not every short passing game offense works like the Patriots.

But Rodgers is WAY too resistant to throwing short especially on 3rd down and especially in his own half of the field. They pick up 4 more first downs a game and it completely flips the field position. Helps the D and the O.

[gbgary]

Stale passing game. Packers' receivers are almost never open; Rodgers has to constantly force the ball into tight windows. Overdue for a new fresh offensive approach.

that's not the case. Rodgers looks past the open guys for open guys down field and by then he's under siege and nothing happens.

[Carolina_Packer]

Yeah, at this point 50% of this trouble is willful touchdown to check down.

To a point, I agree with that approach. You've seen with Shanahan's lesser offenses and with the Bears at times with Trubisky, if everything is short, you often don't get to the sticks for a first down. Not every short passing game offense works like the Patriots.

But Rodgers is WAY too resistant to throwing short especially on 3rd down and especially in his own half of the field. They pick up 4 more first downs a game and it completely flips the field position. Helps the D and the O.

There are other examples to choose from throughout the season, but none fresher than last week vs. the Bears when the offense possessed the ball right after the D gets a fumble; I believe the game is tied and the Packers have a great opportunity. Instead of a methodical, grinding, ball possession approach, the Packers offense goes three and out because of the lust for chunk yardage. Rodgers siren song is the long pass play. Rodgers apologists, I'm right with you on his greatness. He's one of the best ever. Part of what makes a player great is adaptation. If all he cares about is winning, is he willing to take whatever approach is dictated by the situation? At that point we know QB banged up (add a groin pull to the knee issue and whatever else will come out after the season is done), game tied, defense down some guys, playing with many inexperienced receivers. All that stuff needs to be processed as adeptly as the ability to read coverages, call protections and check out of a bad play. If Rodgers does self-scout in the off-season, I hope he learns more to take what the defense gives him, especially in situations where the game is on the line and there is an opportunity to take control. Home runs are fun, but so are two out, two-run singles.

[mraynrand]

that's not the case. Rodgers looks past the open guys for open guys down field and by then he's under siege and nothing happens.

exactly. It's lack of discipline, sloppy QBing, or both. Maybe a disciplinarian like Mike McCarthy, who reined in Favre, can get Rodgers to change his ways.

[pbmax]

exactly. It's lack of discipline, sloppy QBing, or both. Maybe a disciplinarian like Mike McCarthy, who reined in Favre, can get Rodgers to change his ways.

Mike McCarthy is dead!

Hire Mike McCarthy!

[gbgary]

exactly. It's lack of discipline, sloppy QBing, or both. Maybe a disciplinarian like Mike McCarthy, who reined in Favre, can get Rodgers to change his ways.

i think Rodgers disciplined McCarthy.