2019 Green Bay Packers @ Chicago Bears Week 1 Discussion Thread

[RashanGary]

So you think that run-pass option under center offenses are at an inherent disadvantage. OK. Odd that only the Bears and Patriots figured that out.

But I think you are claiming too much certainty over two games with the Rams having an injured Gurley.

Defenses are not never ending fractals of possible defenses. I do agree that offenses who motion and play with no huddle get the edge in identifying or simplifying the defense. In an under center offense, the QB turning his back is a downside if the defense has the right call.

And I see times where mixing in the audibles and adjustments really help. If I had to design an offense, I’d make it more pace/execution/motion oriented to simplify defenses. And then every once in a while id mix in some of that adjustment stuff, but not so much that defenses can pick my plays for me. The Packers and Rams do it so much that teams figured out how to pick pass plays for them.

[RashanGary]

This is just trolling, not humble-bragging. Are you OK?

Yeah. Shitty sarcasm. Not cool. Will calm down

[pbmax]

@WesHod
The monsoon in Green Bay this morning pushed #Packers practice inside the Hutson Center.

Darrius Shepherd, Jace Sternberger, and Oren Burks still out. Ka’dar Hollman (neck) again in a non-contact jersey

[mraynrand]

Fakery like this is not new and not confined to play action teams. Bears used to torture Rodgers/McCarthy with Urlacher all the time.

Yes, because they could. Because Erlacher could defend the run and cover backs, TEs, slot receivers and the slower wideouts. Nice to have an Urlacher/Shazier type in there at the other LB. Essentially that's nickel but with a true run stopping capacity so that allows you to run everything and engage in effective fakery. Hell, with those guys you can pull your run-stopping LB and basically have dime as base to counter a passing team and have a reasonable expectation to stop the run (at least against teams constructed like the Packers last year).

[RashanGary]

Fakery like this is not new and not confined to play action teams. Bears used to torture Rodgers/McCarthy with Urlacher all the time.

Probably why the Bears were the first team to expose the Rams. They’ve gotten so good at doing it with Rodgers.

Also, the Rodgers offense has been better equipped to deal with it because out of the gun, AR can see the field better, escape better and turn a trap into magic more often. The whole offense was built around off schedule plays because they happened so often. So it has been happening to us.... year after year after year. This under center PA stuff.... it’s gonna be much harder to get away with.

[mraynrand]

AR’s obsession with being such a wizard at the line is an addiction similar to Favre’s love of throwing into tight windows. Neither guy could get out of their own way. AR loves to show how smart he is and Favre loved to show what a gun slinger he was. Both come at the expense of the team.

While this is an exaggeration, there's some truth to it.

[pbmax]

Yes, because they could. Because Erlacher could defend the run and cover backs, TEs, slot receivers and the slower wideouts. Nice to have an Urlacher/Shazier type in there at the other LB. Essentially that's nickel but with a true run stopping capacity so that allows you to run everything and engage in effective fakery. Hell, with those guys you can pull your run-stopping LB and basically have dime as base to counter a passing team and have a reasonable expectation to stop the run (at least against teams constructed like the Packers last year).

Right and against most defenses, the offense will either choose to attack a matchup (safety on a WR or a LB on a RB) or attack a scheme or front (run versus their nickel, pass to outside against single coverage).

Its gets much harder when the defenses get better (usually playoffs) with players who can hold the fort by themselves. Then you either avoid (Deion or Revis) or attack head on (Sherman running at Urlacher).

But even the Bears, under Lovie, when ALL outlets called it a Cover 2 or Tampa 2 defense, rarely used Cover 2 on first or second down. Somehow a team always noted for running the same defense was disguising non Cover 2 coverage. All a shell game.

And that is why M3's reluctance to motion or bunch was always maddening. He was conceding tactical advantage to run the play as it was designed originally. He put a lot on Rodgers plate.

[gbgary]

While this is an exaggeration, there's some truth to it.

some? he nailed it!

[mraynrand]

Probably why the Bears were the first team to expose the Rams. They’ve gotten so good at doing it with Rodgers.

Also, the Rodgers offense has been better equipped to deal with it because out of the gun, AR can see the field better, escape better and turn a trap into magic more often. The whole offense was built around off schedule plays because they happened so often. So it has been happening to us.... year after year after year. This under center PA stuff.... it’s gonna be much harder to get away with.

Yep. They are going to have to be able to actually run the ball and connect with primary WR targets at a reasonable success level for it to work. It will be interesting to the the under center versus shotgun(and the shorter version) percentages.

[RashanGary]

The Rams took the league by storm the way the Packers did. McVay took the shannahan offense and added more advanced presnap audible capabilities. They already had teams on their heals with the pace and deceptive play selections. Then they did a couple audibles and a couple more and they were slaying the league.

Until

The Chicago Bears came along. They’ve seen this before.... McCarthy/Rodgers once took the league by storm in a similar way, taking WCO and adding advanced audible capabilities. Nobody could stop them. Until teams learned how to get the Packers into pass plays and play 2 over with aggresssice under coverage. The offense has never been the same since. And if the Rams don’t adjust, teams have it figured out now. They’ll never be the same either.

I just Hope AR doesn’t keep trying the same tired shit that hasn’t worked for years.

[pbmax]

Yep. They are going to have to be able to actually run the ball and connect with primary WR targets at a reasonable success level for it to work. It will be interesting to the the under center versus shotgun(and the shorter version) percentages.

Its the first game. I could see the new offense stagger and get a lead until the Bears adjust.

I could also see it struggle and Rodgers dust off the extended offense to mount a comeback.

But he has beaten this team with less, he can do it again. We'll see.

[mraynrand]

And that is why M3's reluctance to motion or bunch was always maddening. He was conceding tactical advantage to run the play as it was designed originally. He put a lot on Rodgers plate.

Yep, especially when the receiver talent dropped below the level to create actual mismatches/get open.

[pbmax]

The Rams took the league by storm the way the Packers did. McVay took the shannahan offense and added more advanced presnap audible capabilities. They already had teams on their heals with the pace and deceptive play selections. Then they did a couple audibles and a couple more and they were slaying the league.

Until

The Chicago Bears came along. They’ve seen this before.... McCarthy/Rodgers once took the league by storm in a similar way, taking WCO and adding advanced audible capabilities. Nobody could stop them. Until teams learned how to get the Packers into pass plays and play 2 over with aggresssice under coverage. The offense has never been the same since. And if the Rams don’t adjust, teams have it figured out now. They’ll never be the same either.

I just Hope AR doesn’t keep trying the same tired shit that hasn’t worked for years.

When did the Bears take this away? When was the last time they held the Packers to under 6 points?

Its amazing that the Bears couldn't manage to beat the Eagles at home and the Rams made the Super Bowl, but the Rams scoring 6 points is the most important item in the Packers 2019 season.

[mraynrand]

The Rams took the league by storm the way the Packers did. McVay took the shannahan offense and added more advanced presnap audible capabilities. They already had teams on their heals with the pace and deceptive play selections. Then they did a couple audibles and a couple more and they were slaying the league.

Until

The Chicago Bears came along. They’ve seen this before.... McCarthy/Rodgers once took the league by storm in a similar way, taking WCO and adding advanced audible capabilities. Nobody could stop them. Until teams learned how to get the Packers into pass plays and play 2 over with aggresssice under coverage. The offense has never been the same since. And if the Rams don’t adjust, teams have it figured out now. They’ll never be the same either.

I just Hope AR doesn’t keep trying the same tired shit that hasn’t worked for years.

I know the defensive adjustments had an impact, but I still believe the drop in receiving talent was a more critical factor in the offensive drop off. Stubby just couldn't run the offense he wanted and his adjustments could only achieve so much.

[RashanGary]

And that is why M3's reluctance to motion or bunch was always maddening. He was conceding tactical advantage to run the play as it was designed originally. He put a lot on Rodgers plate.

So true! Was a part of that AR wanting the extra time to choose plays though?? Motions would have helped a lot. They basically built the whole thing around AR finding out the disguise post snap and making magic happen. He’s getting too old for that shit.