2019 Green Bay Packers @ Chicago Bears Week 1 Discussion Thread

[gbgary]

I’ll bet you anything, right now when AR goes to bed, he’s missing the sweet, loving Mike McCarthy, who let him do whatever he wanted and built a whole offense around what AR likes to do.

i've got a feeling nothing has changed after MLF's capiulation.

[RashanGary]

I know the defensive adjustments had an impact, but I still believe the drop in receiving talent was a more critical factor in the offensive drop off. Stubby just couldn't run the offense he wanted and his adjustments could only achieve so much.

Very true..... very very true. Especially last year.

[RashanGary]

I know the defensive adjustments had an impact, but I still believe the drop in receiving talent was a more critical factor in the offensive drop off. Stubby just couldn't run the offense he wanted and his adjustments could only achieve so much.

Isn’t it equally maddening that Jones averaged 5.5 yards per carry and they barely ran the ball even when he was healthy. They could have adapted and ran more

[RashanGary]

Pb,

It wasn’t necessarily the Bears that exposed the Packers, but teams have been baiting the Packers into audibles for a while now and learned how to gain an advantage that way. So they were equipped to expose the Rams audible system having so much experience playing the Packers audible system.

[pbmax]

So true! Was a part of that AR wanting the extra time to choose plays though?? Motions would have helped a lot. They basically built the whole thing around AR finding out the disguise post snap and making magic happen. He’s getting too old for that shit.

Do you remember seeing motions in Rodgers first year starting?

[pbmax]

Pb,

It wasn’t necessarily the Bears that exposed the Packers, but teams have been baiting the Packers into audibles for a while now and learned how to gain an advantage that way. So they were equipped to expose the Rams audible system having so much experience playing the Packers audible system.

Justin, none of this is new. Bears with unbelievable personnel could bait the Packers into traps in 2009 and 2010. With lesser personnel, Packers rolled over them. Including a pretty good second half last year versus those same Bears.

Its not the bait and disguise, its the personnel.

When Fangio ruined the Packers offense in San Fran, it was a Cover 2 shell with man under. No disguise. The "Bears" didn't learning anything from the Packer games. They simply devised a strategy for the Rams that worked.

And I might note that the Patriots used a different strategy: quarters zone coverage, something they had no played much off all year.

[RashanGary]

Justin, none of this is new. Bears with unbelievable personnel could bait the Packers into traps in 2009 and 2010. With lesser personnel, Packers rolled over them. Including a pretty good second half last year versus those same Bears.

Its not the bait and disguise, its the personnel.

When Fangio ruined the Packers offense in San Fran, it was a Cover 2 shell with man under. No disguise. The "Bears" didn't learning anything from the Packer games. They simply devised a strategy for the Rams that worked.

And I might note that the Patriots used a different strategy: quarters zone coverage, something they had no played much off all year.

The Bears ran a lot of quarters against the Rams. They showed run defense first though, to bait the audible. Patricia’s Lions did the same and then NE did the same again. Slight variations in how they baited the pass plays, but same general deception in baiting pass and playing quarters post snap.

Pb, seriously, do you really think defenses just go up and honest Abe give Rodgers (or any audible offense) their coverages so Rodgers can audible into the right play? Hell NO! They know he audibles more than anyone so they bait him. It’s really not that complicated.

Teams knew Favre threw into tight coverage so they trained all week to be ready for the ball even if they’ve got a guy covered. Teams know AR checks into passes when he sees certain looks so they bait him in. It’s so obsessive for him it’s become predictable.

He’s got away with it because of his athleticism mixed with his ability to throw on the move and from off platforms. The plays constantly break down and there he’s left holding the ball and having to make something happen off schedule. If he was really in good plays, the plays would be working as designed not breaking into scramble drills on 40% of his drop backs.

[RashanGary]

The Packers literally had an offense designed around getting to the line quick so AR could audible however he wanted. But then finding out after the snap it’s a completely different defense and having to hold the ball and do scramble drills. It’s truly ridiculous, but they were so good at the scramble drills and Rodgers is so good at scrambling, they made a whole offense out of it.

That’s why the Bears were so quick to fuck up the Rams system. They’re used to playing an audible heavy offense. They know how to mess it up. And now so does everyone else.

[RashanGary]

And if AR still tries to be audible-centric, he’s going to be hurt doing it under center with play action passes.

Either MLF is gonna have to put him in gun so he doesn’t get killed or he’s going to actually have to run the ball. You can’t have it both ways. Ask the Rams.

[Fritz]

How far do you want to fall behind before you alter the game plan? If M4 doesn't adjust a run heavy play call mix before half time, what makes him better than M3?

I mean, do you remember a lot of great comeback offenses in the 1970s?

I do. I was constantly calling out to the Packers' offense "Come back! Please! Come back, offense! Where did you go?"

[RashanGary]

I’m rooting for MLF because I’m sick of the bad audible/broken play offense we’ve been sucking at for the last few years.

[call_me_ishmael]

The Broncos fucked up the Packers offense not because they out scheme'd them - but they showed the world how to play them and defeat them by aggressively pressing and getting pressure with four. Not just any team can do this. The Broncos just happened to have special players (Talib, Harris Jr, Miller) that enabled this to wreak havoc and totally shut them down.

Other teams caught on and when crunch time came against good teams, they employed similar strategies. I wouldn't say these were "Packer killers" or anything, just a good team finding a way to beat a good offense.

Likewise, the Bears and Patriots didn't show "the formula" to beating the Shanahan every-play-looks-the-same offense. They just happened to have a scheme that work paired with the horses to do it. The Pats got lucky they could sit in quarters coverage because whats-his-face the RB was hurt and a non-factor. If he's playing and effective, do you think they're able to sit in quarters? Uhh, no. The Bears, meanwhile, happened to acquire a freaky deaky linebacker who can tackle like a linebacker but run like a damn gazelle. This enables a whole lot of different scenarios and gives you schematic flexibility in the sense of keeping your opponent guessing and responding to your opponent's changes.


My gut feeling is the Packers are going to be very tough to stop if they make their bread and butter out of two back set and do legitimately commit to running the ball. They'll be extremely hard to stop on playaction if you have to respect the run.

[RashanGary]

Ishmael,

Patriots completely flipped script and played quarters defense post snap but showed 6 man lines presnap to get the audible out of zone runs.

But yes, personnel matters too. But audible reliant teams get baited and that’s a double disadvantage on top of personnel

Packers learned to master the broken play/bad audible offense but it’s so much work and falls apart too often.

[RashanGary]

I’m a proponent of the MLF system of run/pass plays looking similar and being unpredictable mixed with a torrid pace so defenses can’t catch their breath and a few motions to unveil possible masked coverages. I just think you get less broken plays that way and more big plays on schedule as the unpredictability and play similarity gets teams out of position.

Easier on the QBs body. The whole team is more involved with the run plays. It’s just better team offense imo. Also easier on the defense with longer drives instead of living and dying by the broken play.

[RashanGary]

Amazingly relevant to what we have going on here! Must read!

https://amp-si-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.si.com/mmqb/2016/02/02/nfl-super-bowl-50-gary-kubiak-peyton-manning?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQEKAFwAQ%3D%3D#aoh=15675394553918&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.si.com%2Fmmqb%2F2016%2F02%2F02%2Fnfl-super-bowl-50-gary-kubiak-peyton-manning