2020 Wide Receivers

[GB-Brandon]

I was thinking 2 years is the plan for Rodgers too, assumin Love doesn’t look like hot garbage. Rodgers is a hell of a fall back plan if Love is Kizer 2.0. They have both under contract for 4 years so they might ride it out an extra year or 2 and see what happens. The rest of the roster might determine that.

This is where it gets a little fuzzy. If Gary doesn't get better and JL flames out then Gute could be shown the door. Gute put his career kinda on the JL pick with the way things are forming. Also, if this team starts to struggle this year and things heat up with Rodgers and LaFluer and resentments start to come out then Rodgers could demand his way out of here and were stuck with JL. It's easy for everyone to say the right things now in May but if "L's" start piling up and the pressure cooker starts getting hot etc etc things could get very fluid. This is where I would think Gute would at least "Clean Up The Mess" a little and make some type of move to give Rodgers some more comfort. Well see, I am really starting to believe my first thoughts might be becoming more true that Gute is gonna run this thing out the way it is. To me this is very very very High Stakes Gambling by Gute. He appears to be on a mission of some sort and well see where it ends up.

I wasn't gonna bring this up until later because I really don't like dumping so many negative opinions in one day but I mine as well because it ties to this. I've completed watching just about everything I can on Jordan Love and this pick scares the hell out of me. I really hope i'm wrong but some of things some scouts have said I completely confirm. He is big and athletic and has the arm with some ability to throw at some different launch points. He tends to be a streaker and he runs hot and cold. The biggest thing though that scares me about this guy is he is basically a "One Read QB." Yeah, there is some scramble stuff but when he throws from the pocket he doesn't appear to be able to process successfully past the first read. It's very obvious and that's why when he didn't have as good as talent around him last year and his main read couldn't win his interceptions went through the roof. He forces and forces and I don't believe he is anywhere near being able to process the field at the NFL level. This is probably at least a two year project and there is no guarantee it will ever work out. It's not like some mechanical thing that you can clean up. Lamar Jackson can get away with this because he is so fast he can tuck it an run for 40 yards down the field if his read isn't there. Love doesn't have that kind of speed. There is a lot of Kizer elements I see here and a lot of Blake Bortles too if he can't figure it out. Some do and some don't. I believe personally that it is a natural talent to some degree. If he can get it figured out we might have something but it's gonna be time and who knows. If he gets thrusted out there then it could fry him forever. Its really easy at the combine to look good making all the throws without having to make decisions reading defenses under pressure. He is great if he just has to stand there and some guy tells him to throw a certain route. I believe Gute got sold again on this massive upside kinda like Rashan Gary all over again.

So yeah there is a lot of moving parts to this whole thing. I'd love nothing more then Rodgers to somehow come out of this whole thing on top with the Packers and play here the rest of his career and win another Owl etc. Unfortunately I don't believe that is Gute's vision right now and I just sense an unwillingness to get Rodgers what he needs to get past this year with it being real positive. I think we might be in for a crazy ride this season but once again hoping for the best. They think they got the next Patrick Mahommes in Green and Gold. Lets see if there right.

[GB-Brandon]

So don't worry guys. We got "The Next Pattrick Mahomes" and "The Next Lawrence Taylor" they just do all there work from the bench.

[RashanGary]

You're making sense Brandon. I've watched Love games and see the one read a lot. Horrible oline in 2019 so some of that was necessity. I did see some second reads, looking guys off, etc.... So he showed in spurts of real NFL skillset even outside.ofnthe obvious physical talent.

Huge gamble on upside. Elite physical talent, and just enough sample of looking guys off, progressions and the ability to throw with velocity from a broken pocket and ability to throw on the run abd make plays off schedule. So everythibg. He's shown everythibg to see where the people who are high on him are really, really high.

Enough reason to doubt too. Enough reason to doubt.

I give him a 20% chance. Big gamble. Truely elite upside. Truly doubtful hell achieve it.

[RashanGary]

Throw from a clean pocket - check
Throw from a broken pocket - check
Scramble and make plays off schedule - check
Look guys off and make throw - check
Huge arm - check
Legs to scramble - check
Went through progressions and made plays wothint the play at times - check
Good dude - check

Literally everything is a check

Forced balls - yep
Got ball out to quick on one read - yep (but is that shaky OL confidence??)

Huge questions if he can't process through a whole play . Huge questions with the forced balls. Was that the team he was on. Those are warts that will doom him if they are him. Doom. There was just enough to think maybe tho

[texaspackerbacker]

I was thinking 2 years is the plan for Rodgers too, assumin Love doesn’t look like hot garbage. Rodgers is a hell of a fall back plan if Love is Kizer 2.0. They have both under contract for 4 years so they might ride it out an extra year or 2 and see what happens. The rest of the roster might determine that.

This may just be your best post ever.

RG, Gary at this point is frosting on the cake if he performs like you think (and I wouldn't rule that out). Regardless, we have the Smiths, and thus, we will have high quality edge rusher play if they stay healthy. I don't see Lazard as much like James Jones at all. I can't recall any similar Packer in recent history like him. Maybe go all the way back to Boyd Dowler in the Lombardi years. There have been a lot of big targets with fair speed and good ability to catch the ball on other teams, though, that he reminds me of. I'd be overselling the product if I said Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald. I dug up an article of somebody's idea of the 25 best WRs all time, and it was surprising how few big guys were on that list. Art Monk and Andre Reed were the only two I would cite as maybe similar to a best case result for Lazard. With Rodgers throwing, though, I would say there is way better than a coin flip/50/50 chance of Lazard being better than James Jones. I can't say the same or even close, though, for Sternberger.

[Massive J]

[QUOTE=GB-Brandon;1062024]

Don't bet against this guy, Brandon. #2 WR if i ever saw one.

This guy was gonna be one too someday. Still waiting.

I've been around too long. I don't get excited about these "K-Mart Red Light Special Pipe Dreams" anymore. Someone needs to tell Gute to go get some "Real Nike's." Tired of the fake shit.

No one EVER thought Janis would be even a #2. We all PRAYED he would. But the world knew he didn`t have the brains.

[GB-Brandon]

Throw from a clean pocket - check
Throw from a broken pocket - check
Scramble and make plays off schedule - check
Look guys off and make throw - check
Huge arm - check
Legs to scramble - check
Went through progressions and made plays wothint the play at times - check
Good dude - check

Literally everything is a check

Forced balls - yep
Got ball out to quick on one read - yep (but is that shaky OL confidence??)

Huge questions if he can't process through a whole play . Huge questions with the forced balls. Was that the team he was on. Those are warts that will doom him if they are him. Doom. There was just enough to think maybe tho

The processing thing at NFL speeds is my major concern. I don't believe he is even close. I don't see a natural feel there. Your kinda buying his one season. I see a guy that gets by on arm talent and a little movement in the Mountain West Conference that played like crap most of the season. That's not enough to get it done in the NFL. I don't see the Pattrick Mahommes thing. A few Pattrick Mahommes type plays don't make me go "Pattrick Mahommes". In fact this Mahommes thing is reach to me. Mahommes lit it up at Texas Tech and got better every year. It's not really even close if you look at sheer numbers or tape.

As far as "shaky OL confidence" whats he gonna do when he has two NFL talented edge rushers coming at him and beastly 300 pound NFL talent pushing his pocket a little? He is gonna have to learn how to slide around in there and step up while processing the whole field at NFL speed. It's a giant leap for him from what he shows on tape against soft competition. They prepped Brett Hundley for a year before he had to go in there and he bombed. Kizer has similar talent as Love and they couldn't fix his ass. This is a scratch off lottery ticket and for Gute to do this is just trash. He wants to make this big gamble so he can possibly look like some fucken genius. It was a power move. THIS WAS NOT PLAYING IT SAFE! And people that say "Well it was just a draft pick and we don't know if they got a receiver or LB even if that player would of been any good either." That's bullshit! We needed to take chances getting better now. I believe we had a chance.

I actually feel bad for Jordan Love. He is gonna get thrown into this thing and if he figures it out and becomes this BDP then hey more power to him. If he can take all the pressure that is gonna be there day 1 that just escalates and study hundreds and hundreds of hours of film and be a student and live this shit like Aaron Rodgers does then we shall see. He couldn't figure it out in college. He got in some trouble before his big bowl game where he flopped. Does he have the discipline and is he mentally strong enough? Lot's of question marks here.

To me this was two years to early and it was nothing more then Gute chasing Unicorns again and basically trying to stamp his name on this organization while he takes the wind out of sales of the "Aaron Rodgers Era." These things very rarely work out well and that's a fact.

[RashanGary]

Brandon, I'm pretty much with ya. Huge risk. Hugely different game at Utah State vs NFL. More to process. So many fail. And he showed some trouble spots that indicate possible failure. I doubt every rookie QB. I doubt Burrow.

Can't say I blame gute for shooting his shot though. He moved up to get love. This was not forced. He chose it.

If I was GM, I wouldn't just sit and try to win with Rodgers like he was my golden ticket. I'd have confidence in my abilities and I'd go all out with it.

So I respect what gute did and I want to see him succeed the same way I wanted to see Thompson succeed after Favre.

The Packers staff, starting with Wolf, has had some good luck with QBs. Most likely HOFers picked by Wolf deciples include: Favre (wolf), Rodgers (Thompson), Wilson (Schneider), Mahomes (Dorsey). Good QBs include: Hasselback (wolf), Carr (McKenzie) and Mayfield (Dorsey) and there is reason to believe that number could be higher if the above listed GMs needed a QB and continued to take them high. Wolf deciples have excellent QB play, all of them other than Thompson did it without Rodgers. And thompson didn't accidently draft Rodgers either. Rodgers isn't a unicorn.

Gute might be the next wolf deciple to be added to the above list. Love (gutekunst) Hall of Fame. Maybe they know something you don't.

[RashanGary]

Thompson once said, when an NFL player leaves a team it's like taking your hands out of a bucket of water. The water is still there and you aren't . Nobody is irreplaceable is what he was saying. That's what he found out. And he was man enough to make a life after. It's not personal. Rodgers is gonna have to be a big boy here. And I'm a big Rodgers fan.

[pbmax]

Thompson once said, when an NFL player leaves a team it's like taking your hands out of a bucket of water. The water is still there and you aren't . Nobody is irreplaceable is what he was saying. That's what he found out. And he was man enough to make a life after. It's not personal. Rodgers is gonna have to be a big boy here. And I'm a big Rodgers fan.

Ted was wrong about that when it comes to the better players. If you are a backup ILB and special teamer, then yes, the bucket of water wins.

Love could be a one read guy, but that critique doesn't bother me. Offenses in college tend to be one read. And one read doesn't mean they aren't doing a pre snap read of the defense.

The Flowers offense is built off a pre-snap read then (normally) one read. He'll be OK in the basic offense and then might need to develop more. Same as with most QBs coming out. If he was this size and speed, ran a pro offense and did not throw picks, he would have been the #1 pick.

[GB-Brandon]

Thompson once said, when an NFL player leaves a team it's like taking your hands out of a bucket of water. The water is still there and you aren't . Nobody is irreplaceable is what he was saying. That's what he found out. And he was man enough to make a life after. It's not personal. Rodgers is gonna have to be a big boy here. And I'm a big Rodgers fan.

I fully expect him to get his 34 million dollars and try to say all the right things as much as he can this season. My OP in regards to this was a response to the Rodgers and Adams timeline. I just see some people and not just on here go this route where they think Rodgers is going to be here for awhile and I laugh. It's total denial and it's kinda like the "I want my cake and eat it too" saying. If I was betting on the timeline I believe this will Be Aaron Rodgers last season here in Green Bay with the only chance of him staying is if they win a Super Bowl.

If we "Must respect Gute's decision" as you say then we certainly "Must respect Rodgers decision" as well. After all it was Gute's decision that will ultimately serve as the catalyst moving forward. Aaron Rodgers wants to win as badly as anyone and he is smart enough to know that it probably isn't gonna happen in Green Bay(at least not a world championship). So he gets his $ and does the best he can do to stay healthy without making a bunch of forced throws with receivers he doesn't really trust to begin with while biting his tongue all season. He might even give a few "atta boy's" to Jordan Love. Then after a so and so season he asks to be traded which the Packers could conceivably do with some help from Rodgers which I believe is what Gute really wants anyways.

Then all the sudden this big pick that some think is so cool becomes very real. Maybe this is why they are rushing and making it a priority to acquire the nuts and bolts of this new scheme. They know its coming. There not stupid in the sense that they know they haven't gotten Rodgers what he needs to be Super Successful. All they really did is plug a few holes with some cheap injury prone players on which are basically one year contracts while they use there premium resources on there new plan. I'm sure there will be some more roster shifting next year and an attempt to help JL out more if this becomes the "here and now." Sure, the LaFluer offense might be more friendly to Love's limited in game processing reads and abilities but its still a massive jump. Well find out but I could see how this is the move that takes the Packers back to NFL Purgatory and rather quickly at that. I wouldn't be putting any heavy ching ching on the Packers to win and that's for sure.

[RashanGary]

Rodgers saw Favre get petty . Now he understands why. Now that he's in it, he understands why Favre was upset

But Rodgers was on the other side of the equation, 15 years ago. So he understands why people think big picture too.

Rodgers is uniquely qualified to handle this well, to see it from multIlle viewpoints and not get lost in his disappointmwnt turned anger

[GB-Brandon]

Rodgers saw Favre get petty . Now he understands why. Now that he's in it, he understands why Favre was upset

But Rodgers was on the other side of the equation, 15 years ago. So he understands why people think big picture too.

Rodgers is uniquely qualified to handle this well, to see it from multIlle viewpoints and not get lost in his disappointmwnt turned anger

Yes and Favre did not end his career in Green Bay and very few others in similar situations have with there respective teams over the years in the NFL. Your putting this "All on Rodgers" when its really "All on Gute". Rodgers even back tracked in his first interview about "Retiring as a Packer' and furthermore saying "Things are beyond his control" and this is just what he is "Saying" to the media.

If you don't think at some level that the wheels are not turning in Rodgers head about putting himself in a better position to win now then you live in a Fantasy Land that i can't help you get out of.

Sometimes "Handling it Well" = "Getting the Hell out of Dodge"

[pbmax]

Rodgers saw Favre get petty . Now he understands why. Now that he's in it, he understands why Favre was upset

But Rodgers was on the other side of the equation, 15 years ago. So he understands why people think big picture too.

Rodgers is uniquely qualified to handle this well, to see it from multIlle viewpoints and not get lost in his disappointmwnt turned anger

Rodgers is also smart enough to know his career, if he is healthy, is not going to end in Green Bay. He said exactly this in his PC.

And no one is contradicting him.

[texaspackerbacker]

The shit just keeps getting deeper and deeper in here. By far the most obvious thing is that Rodgers plays all four remaining years of his contract and excels - as always - doing so. Then after the four years, the Packers find themselves with the same tough decision they had with Favre and Rodgers. Maybe they were stupid in drafting Love; Maybe they just genuinely think lightning can strike twice. Anyway, all this talk about Rodgers leaving one way or the other sooner is idiotic. If he's playing super, why would he be dumped in a trade? If he's diminished, then we likely couldn't get a huge amount in a trade anyway, so why bother?

My guess is that at the end of the four years, we re-up Rodgers for a couple more years and pay a fairly significant amount to retain Love also, assuming he has developed the way it seems he is capable of by watching the GOAT. All it would take is sacrificing one mid-level player at some other position to do that.