Favre will go out with a whimper

[Bretsky]

I'm surprised at the level of pessimism in here. The only thing I can agree with is that there is no superbowl on the cards.

But 6-10? You've got to be kidding! If we do worse than 10-6, I'll eat MY hat. I expect us to do a bit better, frankly.

Call them rose coloured glasses if you like - I'll just say you're wearing those mirror sunglasses... AND wearing them inside out.

I don't consider myslef to be a pessimist by predicting the Packers will be between 7 and 9 wins. I just don't completely agree with the GM: doesn't make me a pessimist.

As for the 10 wins, I think you should renegotiate into a "hat cake". I wouldn't want you to get sick

And I hope you are right.

Cheers,
B

[Bretsky]

Oh, they just think that the ONLY way to improve the team is to drop a wad in free agency, and since we didn't do that, there obviously is no hope and no POSSIBLE way we could be any better than we were last year with the same group of guys. As a matter of fact, with the same group playing together for a second year, we will be worse...

I guess you selectively choose to ignore what we've been saying all along to put your own spin on things

[packrulz]

Nowhere does the guy mention there was a new coaching staff, new zone blocking scheme, and that 5 rookie draft picks started last year. He also didn't mention all the dropped passes when Brett hit them right in the hands, Bubba comes to mind. Hell, I thought Farve would've retired rather than going through all that, he doesn't need the money. They still improved over the 4-12 season the previous year, few posters here going into the season thought the Packers would go 8-8. This year the coaching staff & rookies will be in their 2nd year, hopefully TT will draft some young talent who can fit into their system, and they can draft a WR & TE who can catch the friggen ball when Favre whistles it to them. Favre isn't the problem, the rest of the team need to step it up. I agree with Terry, if the Packers do less than 10-6 this year I'll be suprised. Look at the NFC North:
Bears: Grossman? He can't carry Farve's jockstrap.
viqueens: They are going from bad to worse.
Lions: They are just messed up, why is Millen still there?

There rest of the schedule I'll admit is fairly tough, but there are question marks. Philly isn't as strong as they used to be, KC will probably trade Trent Green, and the Chargers will be hurting if they trade Turner and LT gets hurt. Who thought the Saints would do so well going into last season?

I think Favre played well last year, and proved he's still got it. If TT has a good draft with his 9 picks I don't think a Wild Card Playoff spot is out the the question.

[retailguy]

Love it guys. I'm "pessimistic" because i look at the RB position and see holes. Also, TE, FB, 3rd WR (possibly 2nd too), Safety, 3rd LB, DT, Special Teams, and issues with KR...

I keep being told, "just wait for the draft", it'll be better... OK, but we're going to fill SEVEN starters on the draft? C'mon, how realistic is that?

Last season we beat ONE team with a winning record, and that team had NOTHING but pride to play for. Does anyone here believe that if that game had been played a week later, as the first playoff game, that Chicago would have come out flat?

I realize the team is young and started a bunch of rookies, but last year we played the FOURTH PLACE schedule and beat ONE team with a winning record, this season we play the SECOND PLACE schedule with the SAME guys, with an extra season of experience, which all the rest of the veterans in the league have too....and without a starting caliber running back too...

Lots of questions, no answers and because I disagree with you, I'm a PESSIMIST? Whatever.

[MJZiggy]

There was an interview with Bob Sanders not too long ago in which he outlined what the problems with the running game were last season and for the most part it boiled down to changes that needed to be made to what the offensive line was doing. The question becomes, once those improvements are made, do we need a premier back or can we do it in the Denver/Atlanta mode and then Morency, Beach and Pope turn out better than we currently assume?

[Bretsky]

There was an interview with Bob Sanders not too long ago in which he outlined what the problems with the running game were last season and for the most part it boiled down to changes that needed to be made to what the offensive line was doing. The question becomes, once those improvements are made, do we need a premier back or can we do it in the Denver/Atlanta mode and then Morency, Beach and Pope turn out better than we currently assume?

I'd say the question is "if" those improvements are made do we need a premier back.

My view is we at least need a back talented enough to carry the load and right now we don't have that.

But......

Is our offensive line currently as solid as either Denver or Atlanta's ?

If you want to try to argue that our offensive line is superior to theirs you can try to make that work and say we don't need an upgrade at RB. I don't buy that our OL is superior to either unit, and I think it's pretty obvious that the RB position in among the weakest position on our roster.

Elite RB or not, I don't ever remember a time where Denver or Atlanta went into the season with talent as weak as Morency/Beach/Pope.

I cant' imagine the Snapper would ignore this position.

[BEARMAN]

I'm just looking forward to Brett Farve being pumled, crushed and broken by my beloved BEARS ! (yet Again!) this season. Your fudge wackers going 6 - 10 is way too optimistic. And yes, he is correct, "whimpering" into oblivion is the way he gose out.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Love it guys. I'm "pessimistic" because i look at the RB position and see holes. Also, TE, FB, 3rd WR (possibly 2nd too), Safety, 3rd LB, DT, Special Teams, and issues with KR...

I keep being told, "just wait for the draft", it'll be better... OK, but we're going to fill SEVEN starters on the draft?

7 starters? I'm fine with Jennings, Miree, Poppinga, and Corey Williams. They were decent last year, and I would expect all of them to improve. It would be nice to get three new starters (RB, TE, and S) and fill depth at several other positions.

[b bulldog]

I think we will be a better team than last season but we'll end up 7-9.

[retailguy]

I think we will be a better team than last season but we'll end up 7-9.

If we wind up 7-9, we will CLEARLY be a better team than last year. 6-10 might even make us a better team than last year depending on where those wins come from.

I could build a case, however, based on where the team is TODAY, that we could be 0-6, or at best 2-4 at the bye week.... Thank GOD, we've got 4 more months to find someone who can run the damn ball...

[packerbacker1234]

Favre went 5-1 against the division despite the slumps and injuries/talent level. Chicago can say all they want they didn't try in that last game. I guess they forgot to try in the super bowl too. Thats incorrect, what happened is we "exposed" chicago and they used the "didn't try" card to shrug it off.

Yes, he played poor verse poor competition, HOWEVER if you noticed during the games it was all about the 1st quarter. Favre would be playing well then suddenly someone would drop a crucial first down pass.

As for the RB situation. Some could argue that Morency ignited the run game, more so then green. I do feel that Morency is not going to get the tough yards, however he was excellent in his cuts and showed good insticts and break away speed. He had more long runs then green. I think RB wise we just need a proven guy to give us a nice one two punch. Who knows the draft may fix that.

As for WR's, jennings should be good to go come this season barring another injury. Thats two weapons. Bubba may actually get to run routes, so as long as he works on his hands this offseason and not his blocking he could be a solid target. KR back around week 10 could be a nice addition to help a playoff push if we can stay in the running.

Now, moving to our defense, we got a good core and a little bit more depth then last year (who knows maybe even a new safety by the time draft is over). So, our defense may be able to keep us in games longer to give favre and company time to get there confidence.

Thats really the only issue. I've seen players on the current roster flash potentional. What they lack is confidence in themselves. Favre seems to never doubt himself, but if the WR he is throwing too is shaking, worried he wont make the catch, thats when mistakes and drops happen. It's all about quarter one.

If they offense can show confidence, things could be different. What are we short this year?

We lost green, OH NO. Green didn't do THAT well, just did ok. Morency with our line could do "ok". Lost Martin? So what, he is on;y here 4 games a year anyways. To note, we won more games after his injury then before it.

Defense? ALl starters return. Offense? All return but one. The offense will be just as good, and depending on a draft and any late pick ups, even better then last years offense.

Point in case, there is every reason to think we can do just as good, maybe even better, then last year. Yes favre is sparadic, has good games and bad games. Thats been his way throughout his career. he has always been sporadic. What favre is not use to is getting into the redzone 7 times a game and only getting three points.

If we did better in the redzone last year you can notch at least 2 or 3 more wins on our belt. Favre moved the chains still even in bad games. Once the field got condensed it showed that driver was the only viable option. Hopefully we address this in the draft and get bubba going in the redzone. That way he can't fumble... he just has to catch it in the endzone.

[MadtownPacker]

Lots of questions, no answers and because I disagree with you, I'm a PESSIMIST? Whatever.

I wouldnt call you a PESSIMIST, more like a negative SOV.

Did an alarm go off when you realized you share the same prediction as bearman?

[retailguy]

Lots of questions, no answers and because I disagree with you, I'm a PESSIMIST? Whatever.

I wouldnt call you a PESSIMIST, more like a negative SOV.

Did an alarm go off when you realized you share the same prediction as bearman?

Very funny.

We'll see what happens. I'll be there, watching every game, looking for improvement... Hopefully we'll compare notes at the bye week break, and you'll be saying "I told you so". I'll be only too grateful to hear that.

Now if it's the other way around....

[Packnut]

Last 4 Games

My biggest concern isthat those last 4 games have done more harm than good. If you go back to the sentiment on this board before those 4 games, it was very bleak. Even the most ardent TT backers were very quiet.

Now since those 4 games we have people here who believe 10-6 is possible. Also, with Teddy's absence in the FA market, I think he believes those last 4 games were some kind of signal that his plan is working. God help us all if he really believes this team as is, is anywhere near the talent of the upper echelon.

Look, I hate being negative but you have to be realistic and use some logic here. Some here act like it's a given our O lne improves. It's not. Go back and look at some games last year. Our line was THOROUGHLY dominated. You just can't have a convenient memory lapse and forget about those games. It's logical to expect a small amount of improvment but not the giant steps some here are expecting. The odds of getting through the entire season with our starters playing every game is just about ZERO and no one can make a case we have any depth.

Our offense has had red zone problems for the last 3 years. Every year we think it will improve and it does'nt. Since Thompson has done NOTHING in this area, can someone please explain to me how it's going to change? Do we just close our eyes and hope for the best yet again? I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but ya need to score in the red zone in order to compete in this league.

Now you can hang your hats on those last 4 games but you also just can't ignore what happened against the Pats and Jets. That was 80's Packer football all over again. It looked like men against boys and it was thoroughly embarrassing to any Packer fan.

There is a disturbing trend on this board that guys like Bresky, retail-guy and myself just to name a few are called negative and pessimists. We've been given the label as "Thompson bashers". Well, there is a helluva lot more evidence on our side about where the Packers are at then the kool-aid drinkers. Yes, no doubt the Packers are trending upwards. That's not in dispute. But let's also remember this team was at the bottom and there was no where to go but up.

[retailguy]

Re: Last 4 Games

Just a couple of comments....

Look, I hate being negative but you have to be realistic and use some logic here. Some here act like it's a given our O lne improves. It's not. Go back and look at some games last year. Our line was THOROUGHLY dominated. You just can't have a convenient memory lapse and forget about those games. It's logical to expect a small amount of improvment but not the giant steps some here are expecting. The odds of getting through the entire season with our starters playing every game is just about ZERO and no one can make a case we have any depth.

Can you IMAGINE what would have happened over the course of the entire season, WITHOUT a back like Ahman Green behind that Oline? How about a Quarterback who's name was NOT Brett Favre? Oh yeah, we saw that one, his name was Aaron Rodgers and he broke his foot in less than a half of action...

Thank God we had Ahman Green last year, say what you all want about him being in decline... There is ample proof that he was the ONLY one that could run CONSISTENTLY behind our OL. 1,059 yards behind that line was a freaking MIRACLE, and something he should be VERY proud of.

There is a disturbing trend on this board that guys like Bresky, retail-guy and myself just to name a few are called negative and pessimists. We've been given the label as "Thompson bashers". Well, there is a helluva lot more evidence on our side about where the Packers are at then the kool-aid drinkers. Yes, no doubt the Packers are trending upwards. That's not in dispute. But let's also remember this team was at the bottom and there was no where to go but up.

The sad part is I actually like Ted Thompson. I appreciate his determination and his wherewithal to stick with what he believes. I simply disagree with the "short term" portion of his plan. I think we could bring in a few guys to make this a more competitive team while he "retools" the long term plan and talent level, and "take a chance" that this team could catch fire in Favre's last couple of years.

Favre keeps this team somewhat competitive all by himself. You don't need 21 other "weapons" to win some games and get to the playoffs. You probably sit about 4 guys short at this point. You definitely need a top flight running back, a better starting FB, at least a third WR, a better starting Safety, and perhaps a KR. Ok, that's 5, so sue me...

That's what I find frustrating...