Favre will go out with a whimper

[Cleft Crusty]

Not as a criticism of Favre's performance, but Grant's performance as a runner was more "brilliant" than Favre's as a passer. Grant had more yards, and both had 3 TDs. Grant even had more rushing attempts than Favre had passing attempts.

In spite of the early fumbles, Grant was "brilliant" in that game. The character of that game was decided by the Packers running game, and Grant in particular.

You make a good argument, Patler. But often stats don't tell the whole story. Or better stated, stats, in their proper context, tell a better story. The fumbles, in context, left Favre with the ball, a 14 point deficit, and a shaky RB behind him. He had to rally the troops for that all-important first TD drive, almost exclusively through the air. That was where Favre's leadership was crucial. But there is no doubt about the impact that Grant's running had on the game as it wore on - I was a memorable record-setting performance.

[The Leaper]

Not as a criticism of Favre's performance, but Grant's performance as a runner was more "brilliant" than Favre's as a passer. Grant had more yards, and both had 3 TDs. Grant even had more rushing attempts than Favre had passing attempts.

I disagree.

Grant got much of that yardage and most of those carries in the second half of a game that clearly was fully in Green Bay's control by halftime. I will admit that Grant had an excellent 2nd quarter...but Favre's steady hand early is what kept Green Bay in the game, not Grant. Favre completed 10 of his first 11 or something like that. He was hitting different receivers all over the field...and putting it right on the money so they could make plays after the catch.

Just because Favre more or less shut it down after halftime hardly means he was less of a factor in the game than Grant. Favre's leadership and focus when the team got behind was crucial.

[HarveyWallbangers]

In spite of the early fumbles, Grant was "brilliant" in that game. The character of that game was decided by the Packers running game, and Grant in particular.

I'm not so sure. My recollection could be bad, but I thought the Packers threw the ball to get back in the game. Then, Grant took over. I think Favre was huge in that game. He provided the veteran leadership and made the throws he had to. That first TD drive was huge in that game. It might have been a different game if the Packers had not gotten points there.

[Tarlam!]

IIRC, Favre was amazing against Seattle. It was middle of the night stuff for me, but I remember shocking my new fiancé to death running up and down my living room sreaming Favre!!!!!!

[Pacopete4]

You all make good points but I want to make a point of, if we dont have #4 all year... we are no where near 14-4 including playoffs. Do we forget the games he won basically carrying GB on his back when they had zero running game? I understand he stunk in the bears games and especially Dallas. But he threw game winning TD passes against KC and DEN back to back weeks AT THEIR PLACE. It's easy to sit back at say how bad he was in the games we lost, but without him.. the season probably was a wash.

[Cleft Crusty]

You all make good points but I want to make a point of, if we dont have #4 all year... we are no where near 14-4 including playoffs. Do we forget the games he won basically carrying GB on his back when they had zero running game? I understand he stunk in the bears games and especially Dallas. But he threw game winning TD passes against KC and DEN back to back weeks AT THEIR PLACE. It's easy to sit back at say how bad he was in the games we lost, but without him.. the season probably was a wash.

I think you're absolutely right. Without Favre, they never would have done what they did. The part I got wrong was that Favre really bought into the system and really made a huge effort to reduce the careless errors. He was like Gannon in 2002 for the Raiders - a coach on the field - and essentially played an MVP season, but he did fade near the end of the season, and he did struggle against the Giants. It's too bad for Packer fans (and football fans) since a truly epic matchup was one play away: Favre, the old gunslinger against undefeated Brady in the Superbowl. I would argue that had Favre convincingly led the Packers to a victory in that game, he would be in the top 3 QBs of all time, possibly perceived as first over time, instead of somewhere down at 7 or 8.

[Patler]

In spite of the early fumbles, Grant was "brilliant" in that game. The character of that game was decided by the Packers running game, and Grant in particular.

I'm not so sure. My recollection could be bad, but I thought the Packers threw the ball to get back in the game. Then, Grant took over. I think Favre was huge in that game. He provided the veteran leadership and made the throws he had to. That first TD drive was huge in that game. It might have been a different game if the Packers had not gotten points there.

I'm NOT discrediting anything Favre did in that game. The first TD drive was mostly all Favre, and it was huge. Grant had just one carry for 4 yards in that drive. But the second TD drive to tie it at 14-14 was mostly Grant. He had carries of 7, 26, 15, 0 and 1(for the TD) in the second drive. Favre had 15 yards passing in that drive in four attempts. To me, Grant shaking off his horrible start, and running like he did in that drive, established the physical presence that the Packers exhibited the rest of the game.

Following the Hasselbeck fumble on the 18, Grant had an 11 yard reception and a 5 yard run, followed by Favre's 2 yard TD to Jennings to make it 21-14.

Seattle came back to make it 21-17, and in the very next drive Grant was 5/25 yards, Jackson 1/6 and Favre picked up 45 passing for a better balanced drive, with Grant again getting the TD on a 3 yard run

Halftime score: 28-17, 2 TDs for Favre, 2 for Grant. 91 yards for Grant, 133 for Favre.

Next Drive (1st in 3rd quarter) - Grant has 30 yards running, Favre has 37 passing and a TD to Jackson.

The 2nd drive, second half, Grant has carries of 4, 43, -1, 2 and 1 for the TD. Favre has 3 yards passing.

Very next possession - Grant has carries of 28, 1, 3 and 0; Favre has no attempts. Jackson took over for Grant at that point.

Grant was pretty well balanced through out the game, with his longest run coming in the second half. He had 14 carries for 91 yards in the first half (with a long of 26), and 13 for 110 yards in the second (with a long of 43).

It wasn't all Favre followed by all Grant by any means.

[HarveyWallbangers]

In spite of the early fumbles, Grant was "brilliant" in that game. The character of that game was decided by the Packers running game, and Grant in particular.

I'm not so sure. My recollection could be bad, but I thought the Packers threw the ball to get back in the game. Then, Grant took over. I think Favre was huge in that game. He provided the veteran leadership and made the throws he had to. That first TD drive was huge in that game. It might have been a different game if the Packers had not gotten points there.

I'm NOT discrediting anything Favre did in that game. The first TD drive was mostly all Favre, and it was huge. Grant had just one carry for 4 yards in that drive. But the second TD drive to tie it at 14-14 was mostly Grant. He had carries of 7, 26, 15, 0 and 1(for the TD) in the second drive. Favre had 15 yards passing in that drive in four attempts. To me, Grant shaking off his horrible start, and running like he did in that drive, established the physical presence that the Packers exhibited the rest of the game.

Following the Hasselbeck fumble on the 18, Grant had an 11 yard reception and a 5 yard run, followed by Favre's 2 yard TD to Jennings to make it 21-14.

Seattle came back to make it 21-17, and in the very next drive Grant was 5/25 yards, Jackson 1/6 and Favre picked up 45 passing for a better balanced drive, with Grant again getting the TD on a 3 yard run

Halftime score: 28-17, 2 TDs for Favre, 2 for Grant. 91 yards for Grant, 133 for Favre.

Next Drive (1st in 3rd quarter) - Grant has 30 yards running, Favre has 37 passing and a TD to Jackson.

After this drive, the game was essentially over.

[Pacopete4]

You all make good points but I want to make a point of, if we dont have #4 all year... we are no where near 14-4 including playoffs. Do we forget the games he won basically carrying GB on his back when they had zero running game? I understand he stunk in the bears games and especially Dallas. But he threw game winning TD passes against KC and DEN back to back weeks AT THEIR PLACE. It's easy to sit back at say how bad he was in the games we lost, but without him.. the season probably was a wash.

I think you're absolutely right. Without Favre, they never would have done what they did. The part I got wrong was that Favre really bought into the system and really made a huge effort to reduce the careless errors. He was like Gannon in 2002 for the Raiders - a coach on the field - and essentially played an MVP season, but he did fade near the end of the season, and he did struggle against the Giants. It's too bad for Packer fans (and football fans) since a truly epic matchup was one play away: Favre, the old gunslinger against undefeated Brady in the Superbowl. I would argue that had Favre convincingly led the Packers to a victory in that game, he would be in the top 3 QBs of all time, possibly perceived as first over time, instead of somewhere down at 7 or 8.

The only part I have to say about that is how can one game determine where he is as a QB all time? I mean look at his 17 year career. I am one who strongly feels that Favre was the most overall talented QB to ever step foot on the football field. I know there are more guys with more rings than him but like the media tries to do is give too much credit when a qb wins and too much blame when they lose.

I love Favre, Elway and Marino as my overall top 3 qb's to ever play this game. They could move, had the guts, were smart and boy could they put a football where they wanted it. Also, they all won a lot of games and hold the top 3 spots in pretty much ever stat category there is. The only way you do that is become a great QB for a real long period of time.

[Cleft Crusty]

The only part I have to say about that is how can one game determine where he is as a QB all time?

Paco,

You have to know that a single game - even a single play can make an entire career. The reason I speculated that a Favre victory over Brady in the Superbowl could have possibly cemented Favre as #1 in many fans' minds is the import of the game and the significance of 1) Favre going against Brady head to head 2) NE being undefeated 3) Brady being MVP and in his prime 4) If Favre wins he has two championships and the final one really would be, as you pointed out, because of him. Look at Namath - a decent QB who had his legendary status generated by one guarantee and one game. Favre's entire career effort gets him in the argument for being the 'best of the best' after Montana, Elway, and Brady (in with the likes of Graham, Marino, and Unitas, etc.)_ but that one huge accomplishment - beating Brady and the best team (arguably EVER) in pro football history, would have put him - with all the records the longevity, the charisma, etc. into consideration for best ever. Give him a play or two in the SB to run on a highlight loop and it's even more certain that 10 years down the road no one would dispute his title as best ever. Sports legends grow and also get consolidated over time into single memorable plays or phrases like The Catch, The Guarantee, The ice Bowl QB sneak, The nicknames (Steel Curtain, etc.). Favre has one title and fair or not, it's just not enough to be considered best ever.

[Pacopete4]

When you rank your QB's are u ranking them as QB's over all or guys that have rings? As much as I love Montana, he dont belong in a category with Favre, Marino, Elway, Moon.. guys that could actually throw. Brady, Montana, Bradshaw are guys, to me, that belong in the "played on a good team, pretty hard to screw up" category. I say that cuz those 3 dont have the talent that Favre, Marino, Elway had in their left arms...

[Cleft Crusty]

As the next matchup with Dallas rapidly approaches, I pull out this article from the archives. I hope to have a new article up by Sunday. As always, post in the Crusty blog if you have questions that need answers, even if you know you won't like the answers you get.

Aaron Rodgers Era Starts Now

The time for the Aaron Rodgers era must start now. Brett Favre is a tremendous quarterback having a tremendous year, but there’s just one fly in the ointment: he cannot and will not win in Dallas. Ever. This bears repeating: In the world of sports where ‘nothing is certain’ and on any given Sunday any team can defeat any other team, the horrible reality for Packer fans is the absolute certainty that they will never see Brett Favre defeat the Cowboys in Texas Stadium. During his tenure as Packer Field General,Favre has developed several bad habits that are all magnified on Cowboy FieldTurf. Most debilitating of these is that somewhere along the line Favre has developed a fear of getting hit. Favre used to relish hard hits; getting jacked up stoked Favre’s competitive fires. Obliterate Favre on a bootleg against Tampa Bay in the 90s and he’d come back three plays later with a TD strike to Antonio Freeman. ,But now, either because of old age, because of accumulated hard hits, or possibly even because there is no comforting vicodin or alcohol buzz to soften the blows, Favre would rather leave the field than take a hit. In the Divisional matchup with Philly in 2003, Favre saw a first down blitz headed his way and chose to bail out, tossing a prayer of a pass high into the still, silent frozen air of Lincoln Financial Field, hoping Irv Favre would somehow guide his errant lob to Javon Walker. The alternative, a devastating sack, was unthinkable. The next year, Favre had an opportunity to launch himself into the end zone against the hated Vikings on a QB scramble - A move he would never have second-guessed in 1994 when he defeated the Atlanta Hawks in the final game at County Stadium. But Favre passed on the run and passed beyond the line of scrimmage. Instead of winning with his feet and heart, Favre bailed out and was charged with a game-changing penalty, disheartening teammates and fans throughout Lambeau Field and PackerNation all over the globe. It was apparent then that the Favre beloved by so many for so many years was no more – he had become a mere specter of his former self, stripped of that unflappable uninhibited playmaker that formerly ruled the NFL. Why bail out on those game changing plays? After all, Elway sold out his body in SB XXXII, why couldn’t Favre do the same when a playoff game was on the line? Perhaps because he had never won it all, the urgency, the hunger was greater for Elway. But for Favre, who has achieved everything a QB can achieve, perhaps the thinking was: “Why get myself killed when I have the SB win, the MVPs, and most of the QB records?” The grit, determination, and willingness to toss himself in the fray for a critical yard, or the readiness to endure the savage sack – all these attributes Favre used to have were apparent not in Brett Favre, but in the vital play of Aaron Rodgers in Dallas last Thursday. Rodgers tossed his body forward and was propellered on a first down scramble, took the big hit in the pocket -and held the ball, and lived to throw another pass. Favre got hit a few times in the first quarter and in lieu of sacks mentally checked out, lobbing up tosses into the Dallas evening sky as though he was conducting pop fly practice for little leaguers.
General Manager Ted Thompson arrived in Green Bay with a philosophy that no veterans were safe from his critical scrutiny. If he thought a position needed an upgrade, he’d go out and get his guy. For him, that guy was Aaron Rodgers. Upgrading Favre was so critical to Thompson that he used his first pick ever as a GM to take him. Now that pick must pay dividends. Rodgers has all the qualities that the young Favre had – he’s fearless, he’ll scramble when necessary and he’ll hang in the pocket and take the massive hit if the pass isn’t open. Favre, on the other hand will reach and try to make the big throw when an easier option is available. Favre even said it himself in his “In their own words” segment that is also included as a DVD in his most recent money-making tome. Favre claims that he’d rather throw the harder pass to the covered receiver “because it’s more challenging.” This attitude had solidified itself in Favre’s psyche like the atherosclerosis in his middle -aged arteries. For a while this year, Packer fans had a respite from this behavior and some were convinced McCarthy had purged these self-destructive tendencies from Favre’s game. But it was a mere façade, and the awful truth is that these tendencies are encoded in Favre DNA and will never be expunged. To be sure, Favre has the ability to continue his great play that has been on display in all non-Bear and non-Cowboy games this year, and he is a better option than Rodgers in all remaining games, including a likely Divisional playoff game at home. But he won’t win in Dallas. Thus, McCarthy and Thompson must make the hard decision and replace Favre now. They can use his injury as an excuse to excuse him from playing. In five games, Rodgers can be groomed to play that all-important game in Dallas and perhaps against New England in the Superbowl. If McCarthy and Thompson don’t make this choice, they and all Packer fans may as well reserve seats for another tragic opera in Texas Stadium. Brett Favre has now had nine performances on that artificial stage and each performance bombed. It’s time for the understudy.

[cpk1994]

When you rank your QB's are u ranking them as QB's over all or guys that have rings? As much as I love Montana, he dont belong in a category with Favre, Marino, Elway, Moon.. guys that could actually throw. Brady, Montana, Bradshaw are guys, to me, that belong in the "played on a good team, pretty hard to screw up" category. I say that cuz those 3 dont have the talent that Favre, Marino, Elway had in their left arms...

You truly don't know what you are talking about when you say Montana couldn't throw. You also seem to forget all of Montana's 4th quarter comebacks as well. The rest of your post is BS and doens't dersvre any response.

[mission]

As the next matchup with Dallas rapidly approaches, I pull out this article from the archives. I hope to have a new article up by Sunday. As always, post in the Crusty blog if you have questions that need answers, even if you know you won't like the answers you get.

Aaron Rodgers Era Starts Now

The time for the Aaron Rodgers era must start now. Brett Favre is a tremendous quarterback having a tremendous year, but there’s just one fly in the ointment: he cannot and will not win in Dallas. Ever. This bears repeating: In the world of sports where ‘nothing is certain’ and on any given Sunday any team can defeat any other team, the horrible reality for Packer fans is the absolute certainty that they will never see Brett Favre defeat the Cowboys in Texas Stadium. During his tenure as Packer Field General,Favre has developed several bad habits that are all magnified on Cowboy FieldTurf. Most debilitating of these is that somewhere along the line Favre has developed a fear of getting hit. Favre used to relish hard hits; getting jacked up stoked Favre’s competitive fires. Obliterate Favre on a bootleg against Tampa Bay in the 90s and he’d come back three plays later with a TD strike to Antonio Freeman. ,But now, either because of old age, because of accumulated hard hits, or possibly even because there is no comforting vicodin or alcohol buzz to soften the blows, Favre would rather leave the field than take a hit. In the Divisional matchup with Philly in 2003, Favre saw a first down blitz headed his way and chose to bail out, tossing a prayer of a pass high into the still, silent frozen air of Lincoln Financial Field, hoping Irv Favre would somehow guide his errant lob to Javon Walker. The alternative, a devastating sack, was unthinkable. The next year, Favre had an opportunity to launch himself into the end zone against the hated Vikings on a QB scramble - A move he would never have second-guessed in 1994 when he defeated the Atlanta Hawks in the final game at County Stadium. But Favre passed on the run and passed beyond the line of scrimmage. Instead of winning with his feet and heart, Favre bailed out and was charged with a game-changing penalty, disheartening teammates and fans throughout Lambeau Field and PackerNation all over the globe. It was apparent then that the Favre beloved by so many for so many years was no more – he had become a mere specter of his former self, stripped of that unflappable uninhibited playmaker that formerly ruled the NFL. Why bail out on those game changing plays? After all, Elway sold out his body in SB XXXII, why couldn’t Favre do the same when a playoff game was on the line? Perhaps because he had never won it all, the urgency, the hunger was greater for Elway. But for Favre, who has achieved everything a QB can achieve, perhaps the thinking was: “Why get myself killed when I have the SB win, the MVPs, and most of the QB records?” The grit, determination, and willingness to toss himself in the fray for a critical yard, or the readiness to endure the savage sack – all these attributes Favre used to have were apparent not in Brett Favre, but in the vital play of Aaron Rodgers in Dallas last Thursday. Rodgers tossed his body forward and was propellered on a first down scramble, took the big hit in the pocket -and held the ball, and lived to throw another pass. Favre got hit a few times in the first quarter and in lieu of sacks mentally checked out, lobbing up tosses into the Dallas evening sky as though he was conducting pop fly practice for little leaguers.
General Manager Ted Thompson arrived in Green Bay with a philosophy that no veterans were safe from his critical scrutiny. If he thought a position needed an upgrade, he’d go out and get his guy. For him, that guy was Aaron Rodgers. Upgrading Favre was so critical to Thompson that he used his first pick ever as a GM to take him. Now that pick must pay dividends. Rodgers has all the qualities that the young Favre had – he’s fearless, he’ll scramble when necessary and he’ll hang in the pocket and take the massive hit if the pass isn’t open. Favre, on the other hand will reach and try to make the big throw when an easier option is available. Favre even said it himself in his “In their own words” segment that is also included as a DVD in his most recent money-making tome. Favre claims that he’d rather throw the harder pass to the covered receiver “because it’s more challenging.” This attitude had solidified itself in Favre’s psyche like the atherosclerosis in his middle -aged arteries. For a while this year, Packer fans had a respite from this behavior and some were convinced McCarthy had purged these self-destructive tendencies from Favre’s game. But it was a mere façade, and the awful truth is that these tendencies are encoded in Favre DNA and will never be expunged. To be sure, Favre has the ability to continue his great play that has been on display in all non-Bear and non-Cowboy games this year, and he is a better option than Rodgers in all remaining games, including a likely Divisional playoff game at home. But he won’t win in Dallas. Thus, McCarthy and Thompson must make the hard decision and replace Favre now. They can use his injury as an excuse to excuse him from playing. In five games, Rodgers can be groomed to play that all-important game in Dallas and perhaps against New England in the Superbowl. If McCarthy and Thompson don’t make this choice, they and all Packer fans may as well reserve seats for another tragic opera in Texas Stadium. Brett Favre has now had nine performances on that artificial stage and each performance bombed. It’s time for the understudy.

Well written and insightful. Hard to argue with the mentality side of it ... it's kinda like people asking what happened to Eminem (lol sorry about the rap reference). Nothing happened, he just got rich and fat, it's hard to be so pissed off and fired up when you got it all already.

[Scott Campbell]

When you rank your QB's are u ranking them as QB's over all or guys that have rings? As much as I love Montana, he dont belong in a category with Favre, Marino, Elway, Moon.. guys that could actually throw. Brady, Montana, Bradshaw are guys, to me, that belong in the "played on a good team, pretty hard to screw up" category. I say that cuz those 3 dont have the talent that Favre, Marino, Elway had in their left arms...

You truly don't know what you are talking about when you say Montana couldn't throw. You also seem to forget all of Montana's 4th quarter comebacks as well. The rest of your post is BS and doens't dersvre any response.

Man. Montana played on a good team. Well, yeah, once he got there it became a great team. But prior to his arrival they were the 70's equivalent of the Millen led Lions.

Anybody that says something like this obviously isn't old enough to have watched him play.