OFFICIAL BRETT THE LIVING LEGEND THREAD

[Tarlam!]

The way I interpret the Rodgers pick is TT took the BPA.

Suggesting a different player would have made the 2005 Packers a SB contender is ludicrous. One player will not vastly improve what turned out to be a 4-12 team.

Favre was definitely not commited to playing under a TT led front office. Sherman would have pouted whomever TT picked; he'd recently been stripped of the GM duties.

The Packers under Sherman/Favre were only close in the 4th & 26 season and both Sherman and Favre botched big time against Phillie. I believe the term "choked" is appropriate.

I highly doubt Rodgers would have faired any better than #1 overall, Alex Smith, had he been thrust into play as a rookie. His first two pre-seasons were anything but encouraging to Packer fans and probably coaching.

The Packers got lucky in that Favre played three more seasons to allow Rodgers to ripen and mature. M3 had ample time to prepare for the post Favre era and, the results have proven that the time was spent wisely.

I don't consider TT a genious for picking Rodgers, nor do I consider him woeful for picking Harrell or Hawk. I admire him for sticking to his BPA philosophie.

What I admire him more for is his ballsy stance vis a vis Bert. He rightly refused to be held hostage again. He relied obviously heavily on the coaching staff.

Favre has no one but himself and probably Bus Cooke to blame for his image demise. He should have been second string to the Almighty in Packerland. Instead he has become the most polarizing figure in the history of the game.

Great legacy.

[mraynrand]

The way I interpret the Rodgers pick is TT took the BPA.

Suggesting a different player would have made the 2005 Packers a SB contender is ludicrous. One player will not vastly improve what turned out to be a 4-12 team.

I think the argument is that TT could have picked a different player - say a pass-rushing DE, who would have helped them win it all in 2007. Maybe they could have drafted a bigger tight end that Favre would have been able to see coming out of the backfield on that last play against the NYG so he wouldn't have thrown the INT.

[Scott Campbell]

As we saw last year, you can put Favre on the "most talented team" he's ever played on, and he'd still find a way to lose.

[Tarlam!]

I think the argument is that TT could have picked a different player - say a pass-rushing DE, who would have helped them win it all in 2007. Maybe they could have drafted a bigger tight end that Favre would have been able to see coming out of the backfield on that last play against the NYG so he wouldn't have thrown the INT.

OK, I'll play. Let's say the pick is different and more importantly, T-Murph doesn't have that spinal condition that ends his career. Which player, that went between the Rodgers pick and the Murphy pick would have put Sherman in a position to keep his job?

25 Washington Redskins (from Denver) Jason Campbell Quarterback Auburn
26 Seattle Seahawks (from New York Jets through Oakland) Chris Spencer Center Mississippi
27 Atlanta Falcons Roddy White Wide Receiver UAB
28 San Diego Chargers Luis Castillo Defensive Tackle Northwestern
29 Indianapolis Colts Marlin Jackson Cornerback Michigan
30 Pittsburgh Steelers Heath Miller Tight End Virginia
31 Philadelphia Eagles Mike Patterson Defensive Tackle USC
32 New England Patriots Logan Mankins Offensive Guard Fresno State
[edit]Round two
Pick # NFL Team Player Position College
33 San Francisco 49ers David Baas Center Michigan
34 Cleveland Browns Brodney Pool Safety Oklahoma
35 Philadelphia Eagles (from Miami) Reggie Brown Wide Receiver Georgia
36 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Barrett Ruud Linebacker Nebraska
37 Detroit Lions (from Tennessee) Shaun Cody Defensive Tackle USC
38 Oakland Raiders Stanford Routt Cornerback Houston
39 Chicago Bears Mark Bradley Wide Receiver Oklahoma
40 New Orleans Saints (from Washington) Josh Bullocks Safety Nebraska
41 Tennessee Titans (from Detroit) Michael Roos Offensive Tackle Eastern Washington
42 Dallas Cowboys Kevin Burnett Linebacker Tennessee
43 New York Giants Corey Webster Cornerback LSU
44 Arizona Cardinals J. J. Arrington Running back California
45 Seattle Seahawks (from Carolina) Lofa Tatupu Linebacker USC
46 Miami Dolphins (from Kansas City) Matt Roth Defensive End Iowa
47 New York Jets (from Houston through Oakland) Mike Nugent Placekicker Ohio State
48 Cincinnati Bengals Odell Thurman Linebacker Georgia
49 Minnesota Vikings Marcus Johnson Offensive Tackle Mississippi
50 St. Louis Rams Ron Bartell Cornerback Howard
51 Green Bay Packers (from New Orleans) Nick Collins Safety Bethune-Cookman
52 Jacksonville Jaguars Khalif Barnes Offensive Tackle Washington
53 Baltimore Ravens Dan Cody Defensive End Oklahoma
54 Carolina Panthers (from Seattle) Eric Shelton Running back Louisville
55 Buffalo Bills Roscoe Parrish Wide Receiver Miami (FL)
56 Denver Broncos Darrent Williams Cornerback Oklahoma State
57 New York Jets Justin Miller Cornerback Clemson

[Scott Campbell]

I think the argument is that TT could have picked a different player - say a pass-rushing DE, who would have helped them win it all in 2007. Maybe they could have drafted a bigger tight end that Favre would have been able to see coming out of the backfield on that last play against the NYG so he wouldn't have thrown the INT.

OK, I'll play. Let's say the pick is different and more importantly, T-Murph doesn't have that spinal condition that ends his career. Which player, that went between the Rodgers pick and the Murphy pick would have put Sherman in a position to keep his job?


43 New York Giants Corey Webster Cornerback LSU

.......though Bert probably would have found some other Giant to throw it too in OT.

[mraynrand]

. Which player, that went between the Rodgers pick and the Murphy pick would have put Sherman in a position to keep his job?

Again, the point wasn't about 2005 and saving Sherman's job - it was about picking someone who could help the revamped team win in 2007. Webster is a great selection. Not only is he unable to make the pick of Favre's horribly misguided pass, but he might have either 1) been on the field and shut Plexiglass down a bit or 2) Been on 'teams and fallen on or picked up that goddam fumble that Bush whiffed on.

[mraynrand]

Still, gotta like:

Heath Miller Tight End Virginia (Maybe Favre sees him!)
Mike Patterson Defensive Tackle USC (stop the NYG run?)
Logan Mankins better interior pass pro and possibly the Packers actually run the ball against the NYG?

Any three of those guys probably would have put the Packers over the top in 2007, unless Favre found another way to implode. Still, I'd rather have Rodgers, simply because the toughest position to fill is 'Franchise QB'

[Tarlam!]

Well, the comment I am answering is the one about Shermy's and Favre's grimaces after the pick. According to that comment, they were looking for immediate help to put them over the hump. To me, that means the 05' seaon.

Sherman would definitely not have had a much better 05' record, since the interior line fell apart. Maybe LM would have holed it up a tad. IIRC, Bubba was still playing OK. But if TT goes DL, he still has that disasterour OL.

So, Shermy was gone, despite his grimace. If TT didn't draft Rodgers, maybe he hires Payton instead of McCarthy. M3 is known to develop QB's. Payton just proved how well he can work with Vet QBs.

Maybe They go tp the SB in 07'. I dunno.

[mraynrand]

Well, the comment I am answering is the one about Shermy's and Favre's grimaces after the pick.

Right after the pick. Yep, I get this. After the draft and the spring, it was pretty clear the Packers were rebuilding, etc. I think most people still pretty much knew the team had reached the end with the current group. I don't think any amount of mortgaging of the future was going to get that 2005 squad anywhere near a championship, even with fewer injuries.

[LEWCWA]

I think the argument is that TT could have picked a different player - say a pass-rushing DE, who would have helped them win it all in 2007. Maybe they could have drafted a bigger tight end that Favre would have been able to see coming out of the backfield on that last play against the NYG so he wouldn't have thrown the INT.

OK, I'll play. Let's say the pick is different and more importantly, T-Murph doesn't have that spinal condition that ends his career. Which player, that went between the Rodgers pick and the Murphy pick would have put Sherman in a position to keep his job?

25 Washington Redskins (from Denver) Jason Campbell Quarterback Auburn
26 Seattle Seahawks (from New York Jets through Oakland) Chris Spencer Center Mississippi
27 Atlanta Falcons Roddy White Wide Receiver UAB
28 San Diego Chargers Luis Castillo Defensive Tackle Northwestern
29 Indianapolis Colts Marlin Jackson Cornerback Michigan
30 Pittsburgh Steelers Heath Miller Tight End Virginia
31 Philadelphia Eagles Mike Patterson Defensive Tackle USC
32 New England Patriots Logan Mankins Offensive Guard Fresno State
[edit]Round two
Pick # NFL Team Player Position College
33 San Francisco 49ers David Baas Center Michigan
34 Cleveland Browns Brodney Pool Safety Oklahoma
35 Philadelphia Eagles (from Miami) Reggie Brown Wide Receiver Georgia
36 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Barrett Ruud Linebacker Nebraska
37 Detroit Lions (from Tennessee) Shaun Cody Defensive Tackle USC
38 Oakland Raiders Stanford Routt Cornerback Houston
39 Chicago Bears Mark Bradley Wide Receiver Oklahoma
40 New Orleans Saints (from Washington) Josh Bullocks Safety Nebraska
41 Tennessee Titans (from Detroit) Michael Roos Offensive Tackle Eastern Washington
42 Dallas Cowboys Kevin Burnett Linebacker Tennessee
43 New York Giants Corey Webster Cornerback LSU
44 Arizona Cardinals J. J. Arrington Running back California
45 Seattle Seahawks (from Carolina) Lofa Tatupu Linebacker USC
46 Miami Dolphins (from Kansas City) Matt Roth Defensive End Iowa
47 New York Jets (from Houston through Oakland) Mike Nugent Placekicker Ohio State
48 Cincinnati Bengals Odell Thurman Linebacker Georgia
49 Minnesota Vikings Marcus Johnson Offensive Tackle Mississippi
50 St. Louis Rams Ron Bartell Cornerback Howard
51 Green Bay Packers (from New Orleans) Nick Collins Safety Bethune-Cookman
52 Jacksonville Jaguars Khalif Barnes Offensive Tackle Washington
53 Baltimore Ravens Dan Cody Defensive End Oklahoma
54 Carolina Panthers (from Seattle) Eric Shelton Running back Louisville
55 Buffalo Bills Roscoe Parrish Wide Receiver Miami (FL)
56 Denver Broncos Darrent Williams Cornerback Oklahoma State
57 New York Jets Justin Miller Cornerback Clemson

That guy at 43 woulda been a good one, LOL It seems he is in one of the pictures above!!

[packerbacker1234]

While they may have drafted in 2005 to win that season (or sherman wanted guys to win that season) - drafts could of changed slightly to get us over the hump in 2007. Remember, we also couldn't run the ball either that game, and the OL played horribly. It was the culmination of two missed FG's and a long favre to driver TD as being the real reason we were still in the game anyways.

No excuse for the pick, everyone was open... even driver was decently open if he threw it outside... like you're suppose to. Either Favre's timing was just way off on the throw, it slipped, he short armed it, or did it on purpose. I highly doubt it was on purpose. I think Driver was just his #1 read, he was decently open, and he just made a horrible pass.

[Tarlam!]

No excuse for the pick, everyone was open... even driver was decently open if he threw it outside... like you're suppose to. Either Favre's timing was just way off on the throw, it slipped, he short armed it, or did it on purpose. I highly doubt it was on purpose. I think Driver was just his #1 read, he was decently open, and he just made a horrible pass.

The Packers only had possession for 1/3 of the game. Their Defense was out in the cold an awfully long time. Yet the team was able to end regulation tied.

So, all things being equal at that point, it was Bert that choked. Again. Or, he was looking for personal glory. Again.

I continue to lay the blame squarely at Bert's feet. Apologists will point to "without him, the Packers wouldn't have tied the game up". Well, how about a few more first down to keep their Defense from running on empty.

[Gunakor]

Both teams had trouble moving the ball consistently up to that point. Both teams made mistakes on defense. Both FG kickers had trouble putting the ball through the uprights. Regulation time is a wash. Both teams had their chance to put the game away in regulation and neither could do it.

But once the clock was reset and the OT period begins, the slate is wiped clean, there is no score, first team to score wins. Once we got there, the previous 60 minutes matter very little IMO. Brand new game. We got the ball. Favre gave it away on the Packers side of the field. Not because he was hurried, or pressured, or scrambling around trying to buy time. He planted, sitting comfortably in the pocket, and threw a ball that sailed right into the waiting hands of a NY defensive back looking for his 15 minutes of fame. We lost. That's what happened. There's really nothing else to say.

[Pugger]

While they may have drafted in 2005 to win that season (or sherman wanted guys to win that season) - drafts could of changed slightly to get us over the hump in 2007. Remember, we also couldn't run the ball either that game, and the OL played horribly. It was the culmination of two missed FG's and a long favre to driver TD as being the real reason we were still in the game anyways.

No excuse for the pick, everyone was open... even driver was decently open if he threw it outside... like you're suppose to. Either Favre's timing was just way off on the throw, it slipped, he short armed it, or did it on purpose. I highly doubt it was on purpose. I think Driver was just his #1 read, he was decently open, and he just made a horrible pass.

Unfortunately for him and the team he plays for since 1997 this has been his modus operandi. In spite of all of the great things he's done in his career he has had a propensity to make poor plays at the worst possible times in big games. This Achille's heel of his will most likely prevent him from being considered the greatest QB in league history.

[packerbacker1234]

No excuse for the pick, everyone was open... even driver was decently open if he threw it outside... like you're suppose to. Either Favre's timing was just way off on the throw, it slipped, he short armed it, or did it on purpose. I highly doubt it was on purpose. I think Driver was just his #1 read, he was decently open, and he just made a horrible pass.

The Packers only had possession for 1/3 of the game. Their Defense was out in the cold an awfully long time. Yet the team was able to end regulation tied.

So, all things being equal at that point, it was Bert that choked. Again. Or, he was looking for personal glory. Again.

I continue to lay the blame squarely at Bert's feet. Apologists will point to "without him, the Packers wouldn't have tied the game up". Well, how about a few more first down to keep their Defense from running on empty.

As I said, we couldn't run the ball, and Brett already showed that season, despite how fantastic he played, that his weakness was now cold weather. This meant the focus for our attack needed to be the rushing game, but the fact remains that we did try to run the ball and it went nowhere. 1/3 possesions doesn't fall squarly on brett.

OT was on him. It was a bad pass, and when you hit OT you look to your superstars to win the game for you. I am not debating OT. I am just saying it should of never been in OT.