6-10 ............. Who is to blame?

[Gunakor]

No, everyone wasnt. Some people, believe it or not, actually saw this shit coming. There would be a tumble effect, most the time there is. He took his shot and got toasted, and in a year... he will lose his job because of it. And to me, thats awesome because he is a fuckin snake that deserves everything thats happening this season. Taking a line from Numb here but Karma sure is a bitch!


Oh and.. HE DIDNT FUCKING FIX US FROM LAST SEASON! He left our shit ass pass rush be even worse off even though he knew KGB was aging and he didnt fix our run D... yea, GREAT GM!

You didn't see this coming until he traded BF away. Because unlike most of us, you thought that 13-3 was a direct reflection of having BF at quarterback rather than a complete team effort. Don't even try to lie about it Paco, that is why you are mad at TT. It has nothing to do with our defense. Our defense was fine last year - it needed no fixing. It didn't become broken until this season. That's not what you are pissed about though, is it? No, your frustration is simply because your boyhood idol was traded to New York.

TT wasn't supposed to fix us from last season. We were 13-3 last year. How much can you fucking fix with 13-3? Seriously man, do you know how rediculous that sounds? "Oh we lost the NFC Championship game, time to overhaul our defense!" Do you realize that's what you sound like right now?

Our shit ass pass rush that ranked amongst the league best in sacks last year? Make wholesale changes to that? Really? KGB was aging, but he still accounted for nine and a half fucking sacks last year. There was no reason to believe he couldn't come in and perform this year. We didn't know until this year, and to act like you saw this shit coming is laughable at best. You are no fucking prophet Paco. You aren't even smart, you just happen to get lucky sometimes. If half of the games we lost in the final minutes of games this year had went the other way, we'd be staring at another division title and your arguement would have no merit whatsoever. You keep using hindsight in your arguement - OH LOOK AT OUR SHIT D LINE THIS YEAR - totally forgetting that it was a pretty dominant D line last year.

[Pacopete4]

No, everyone wasnt. Some people, believe it or not, actually saw this shit coming. There would be a tumble effect, most the time there is. He took his shot and got toasted, and in a year... he will lose his job because of it. And to me, thats awesome because he is a fuckin snake that deserves everything thats happening this season. Taking a line from Numb here but Karma sure is a bitch!


Oh and.. HE DIDNT FUCKING FIX US FROM LAST SEASON! He left our shit ass pass rush be even worse off even though he knew KGB was aging and he didnt fix our run D... yea, GREAT GM!

You didn't see this coming until he traded BF away. Because unlike most of us, you thought that 13-3 was a direct reflection of having BF at quarterback rather than a complete team effort. Don't even try to lie about it Paco, that is why you are mad at TT. It has nothing to do with our defense. Our defense was fine last year - it needed no fixing. It didn't become broken until this season. That's not what you are pissed about though, is it? No, your frustration is simply because your boyhood idol was traded to New York.

TT wasn't supposed to fix us from last season. We were 13-3 last year. How much can you fucking fix with 13-3? Seriously man, do you know how rediculous that sounds? "Oh we lost the NFC Championship game, time to overhaul our defense!" Do you realize that's what you sound like right now?

Our shit ass pass rush that ranked amongst the league best in sacks last year? Make wholesale changes to that? Really? KGB was aging, but he still accounted for nine and a half fucking sacks last year. There was no reason to believe he couldn't come in and perform this year. We didn't know until this year, and to act like you saw this shit coming is laughable at best. You are no fucking prophet Paco. You aren't even smart, you just happen to get lucky sometimes. If half of the games we lost in the final minutes of games this year had went the other way, we'd be staring at another division title and your arguement would have no merit whatsoever. You keep using hindsight in your arguement - OH LOOK AT OUR SHIT D LINE THIS YEAR - totally forgetting that it was a pretty dominant D line last year.

haha you can't have it bother ways bud! You cant play the what if game and pretend thats whats going on here. TT fucked up, the day you realize it will be step one towards seeing the light. Hell ya I was/am pissed he traded Favre away but if you couldn't see that last year we were a mediocre D then I don't know what to tell ya but you are dead wrong if you think I liked TT before the Favre fiasco. I haven't liked much he's done so far. I was one person last season that though a lot of luck bounced our way and we weren't that good.

[Freak Out]

Fuck a duck wankers...none of you can take a joke anymore. I guess that's what losing does to a fan base though.

[rbaloha1]

Shared Blame

Last year the breaks went our way. This season its not. BF's leadership and ability to make plays the majority of the time greatly contributed to victories.

Shared Blame is as follows:

TT assembled a young and talented roster. Failed to provide veteran leadership. Gambled by not having a veteran backup qb.

MM's offense does not always to appear in sync. While the numbers look good the offense fails in crucial times. MM does not always "dial-up" the right plays as opposed to last season. Sometimes too conservative.

BS calls the right defenses but guys misplay gaps and assignments. Injuries have hurt tremendously. IMO the defense is the largest contributor for the poor season.

[Gunakor]

No, everyone wasnt. Some people, believe it or not, actually saw this shit coming. There would be a tumble effect, most the time there is. He took his shot and got toasted, and in a year... he will lose his job because of it. And to me, thats awesome because he is a fuckin snake that deserves everything thats happening this season. Taking a line from Numb here but Karma sure is a bitch!


Oh and.. HE DIDNT FUCKING FIX US FROM LAST SEASON! He left our shit ass pass rush be even worse off even though he knew KGB was aging and he didnt fix our run D... yea, GREAT GM!

You didn't see this coming until he traded BF away. Because unlike most of us, you thought that 13-3 was a direct reflection of having BF at quarterback rather than a complete team effort. Don't even try to lie about it Paco, that is why you are mad at TT. It has nothing to do with our defense. Our defense was fine last year - it needed no fixing. It didn't become broken until this season. That's not what you are pissed about though, is it? No, your frustration is simply because your boyhood idol was traded to New York.

TT wasn't supposed to fix us from last season. We were 13-3 last year. How much can you fucking fix with 13-3? Seriously man, do you know how rediculous that sounds? "Oh we lost the NFC Championship game, time to overhaul our defense!" Do you realize that's what you sound like right now?

Our shit ass pass rush that ranked amongst the league best in sacks last year? Make wholesale changes to that? Really? KGB was aging, but he still accounted for nine and a half fucking sacks last year. There was no reason to believe he couldn't come in and perform this year. We didn't know until this year, and to act like you saw this shit coming is laughable at best. You are no fucking prophet Paco. You aren't even smart, you just happen to get lucky sometimes. If half of the games we lost in the final minutes of games this year had went the other way, we'd be staring at another division title and your arguement would have no merit whatsoever. You keep using hindsight in your arguement - OH LOOK AT OUR SHIT D LINE THIS YEAR - totally forgetting that it was a pretty dominant D line last year.

haha you can't have it bother ways bud! You cant play the what if game and pretend thats whats going on here. TT fucked up, the day you realize it will be step one towards seeing the light. Hell ya I was/am pissed he traded Favre away but if you couldn't see that last year we were a mediocre D then I don't know what to tell ya but you are dead wrong if you think I liked TT before the Favre fiasco. I haven't liked much he's done so far. I was one person last season that though a lot of luck bounced our way and we weren't that good.

I stand corrected. The Green Bay Packers were in a 3 way tie last season for 13th in the NFL with 36 sacks. That is one sack behind 4 teams tied for 9th with 37, and 2 less than the Vikings at 8th place with 38.

If we take Corey Williams 7 sacks out of the equation, that leaves 29 sacks last year from players still on our roster. Which is plenty more than the 22 we've gotten from those players this year.

Last year we had 1 DE that had 12 sacks, and another that had 9.5 sacks, and a DT that had 7 sacks. On one end, Kampman has 9.5 this year. On the other... I'm not sure we've had a combined 3 sacks come from that DE position if you totalled every snap played by every player that lined up there. We have no pressure coming from any DT's on our roster. The next highest sack total on our roster after Kampman appears to be AJ Hawk and Charles Woodson with 3 - one of which came just this past weekend for both players.

I look at these concrete facts and ask myself who is to blame with the DL this season. Last year these guys were playing great - and if they came out with the same fire and gave the same production this year, we'd have little to complain about. They haven't. That falls on the players and the coaches. But I haven't found a reason to blame TT for THIS season's DL shortcomings, because these same players were more than adequate at the same positions last year. TT had nothing to fix last spring.

Look, I'm not saying TT can do no wrong. I'm saying he hasn't yet, at least as far as the DL is concerned. That said, this offseason he has some work to do. If he doesn't get it done, THEN it falls on him. I just find a hard time blaming our GM for not fixing a problem when he hasn't even had an opportunity to fix it yet. Which is the point I've been trying to make, that he hasn't had an offseason to fix our DL yet. At least give him that chance before branding him a snake and a failure.

[Gunakor]

Re: Shared Blame

Last year the breaks went our way. This season its not. BF's leadership and ability to make plays the majority of the time greatly contributed to victories.

Shared Blame is as follows:

TT assembled a young and talented roster. Failed to provide veteran leadership. Gambled by not having a veteran backup qb.

MM's offense does not always to appear in sync. While the numbers look good the offense fails in crucial times. MM does not always "dial-up" the right plays as opposed to last season. Sometimes too conservative.

BS calls the right defenses but guys misplay gaps and assignments. Injuries have hurt tremendously. IMO the defense is the largest contributor for the poor season.

Agreed, but how many games would a veteran backup QB have won for us this year? Rodgers has played every snap, except for one series in one game that was out of reach already anyway. Don't get me wrong, I'd have felt more comfortable with a veteran backup too, but I'm not sure how big a difference it would have made given the way this season played out.

[MOBB DEEP]

Fuck a duck wankers...none of you can take a joke anymore. I guess that's what losing does to a fan base though.

NOTHING to laugh about any more

TERRIBLE year

[MOBB DEEP]

TT is flirting at .500, which is unacceptable for the G&G, especially after taking two years to rebuild in the past 4 years.

He's not going to lose his job. Neither is MM. But blame for the season starts at the top, then goes to coaching.

Explain P. I hear you say this all the time, as if you are just spewing some company line. So tell me, after factoring in all of the intangibles such as injury and schedule, exactly how much blame can be placed on Ted Thompson? Then tell me why. Don't bring up Brett Favre, because there's nothing you can say that would convince me that the problem with this team is QB play. That's not the problem.

And after you are done ranting about all that, tell me how you expect anyone to rebuild a roster with 53 players on it in merely 2 seasons. Or 4 seasons for that matter...

who rebuilds after a 13-3 record and hosting nfccg???? thats pretty much where we are now!

at least our schedule SHOULD be easier next year...

me thinks pack will be lions only win this season

i predicted 11-5 this year with THE WHOLE TEAM returning so is sickening to watch the pack these days

DAYUM!!!

So if the WHOLE TEAM returns this season, and 13 wins becomes 5 or 6, do you blame the GM for the collaps or the players? A better way to ask this is if things didn't appear to be broken last year - especially on the defensive line - how can one blame the GM for not fixing these problems that don't appear to be broken.

I think you nailed it, although you might not realize it. You basically said the players we have are not playing up to the level they were last season, which is 100% correct. But that speaks to production, not talent. These guys are just as talented as they were last year, yet their production has gone down. That's on the coaches, not the GM. TT has put together a talented group of players - a group that, as you said, hosted the NFC Championship Game last season. TT did not fail us in that regard. TT's job is procuring talent, but it is MM's job to turn that talent into production on Sundays. MM has failed us big time by not getting these guys as prepared for gameday as they were last season.

Yeah, TT hired MM. But going back to my earlier point in this post, since it did not appear last offseason that MM was a bad choice as HC, nobody could expect TT to make a change there either. Nearly everybody from the coaches to the players that are on our roster this year were here last year, yet nearly nobody from the coaches to the players has performed up to their talent level. Is that TT's fault?

tru

[Pacopete4]

Gunkor, so its not the gm's fault for trading away a player who had 19% of our sacks last year and not replacing him..? We avg. about the same amount of sacks this season per game as we did without Williams sacks last season... oh and he never shored up our run d that wasn't good last year either.... he's a snake and hasn't done his job for either side of the line... no excuses nemore... this is year 4 times up....

[MOBB DEEP]

TT is flirting at .500, which is unacceptable for the G&G, especially after taking two years to rebuild in the past 4 years.

He's not going to lose his job. Neither is MM. But blame for the season starts at the top, then goes to coaching.

Explain P. I hear you say this all the time, as if you are just spewing some company line. So tell me, after factoring in all of the intangibles such as injury and schedule, exactly how much blame can be placed on Ted Thompson? Then tell me why. Don't bring up Brett Favre, because there's nothing you can say that would convince me that the problem with this team is QB play. That's not the problem.

And after you are done ranting about all that, tell me how you expect anyone to rebuild a roster with 53 players on it in merely 2 seasons. Or 4 seasons for that matter...

who rebuilds after a 13-3 record and hosting nfccg???? thats pretty much where we are now!

at least our schedule SHOULD be easier next year...

me thinks pack will be lions only win this season

i predicted 11-5 this year with THE WHOLE TEAM returning so is sickening to watch the pack these days

DAYUM!!!

So if the WHOLE TEAM returns this season, and 13 wins becomes 5 or 6, do you blame the GM for the collaps or the players? A better way to ask this is if things didn't appear to be broken last year - especially on the defensive line - how can one blame the GM for not fixing these problems that don't appear to be broken.

I think you nailed it, although you might not realize it. You basically said the players we have are not playing up to the level they were last season, which is 100% correct. But that speaks to production, not talent. These guys are just as talented as they were last year, yet their production has gone down. That's on the coaches, not the GM. TT has put together a talented group of players - a group that, as you said, hosted the NFC Championship Game last season. TT did not fail us in that regard. TT's job is procuring talent, but it is MM's job to turn that talent into production on Sundays. MM has failed us big time by not getting these guys as prepared for gameday as they were last season.

Yeah, TT hired MM. But going back to my earlier point in this post, since it did not appear last offseason that MM was a bad choice as HC, nobody could expect TT to make a change there either. Nearly everybody from the coaches to the players that are on our roster this year were here last year, yet nearly nobody from the coaches to the players has performed up to their talent level. Is that TT's fault?

pack swagger did leave though

[Gunakor]

Gunkor, so its not the gm's fault for trading away a player who had 19% of our sacks last year and not replacing him..? We avg. about the same amount of sacks this season per game as we did without Williams sacks last season... oh and he never shored up our run d that wasn't good last year either.... he's a snake and hasn't done his job for either side of the line... no excuses nemore... this is year 4 times up....

This is pure bullshit Paco. I suppose that KGB disappeared entirely after a fairly productive season last year because TT traded Corey Williams away. Coz, you know, it would just be too difficult to look deeper for the reason. Much easier to blame TT for trading a guy away.

I've broken down the sack statistics in my previous post. Without Williams, this team had 29 sacks last year. Without Williams, this team has 22 sacks this year - and 3 of those came from CHARLES WOODSON. I'm not saying that those don't count, but it goes to show where the pressure is coming from this year. Our Pro Bowl cornerback has more sacks on the season than either of our starting DT's or our starting RDE. Last year our DT's and RDE were very effective in getting to the QB, this year they are not. And the only change on the line has been Williams, who hasn't done a damn thing for Cleveland all year.

Paco, Corey Williams proved himself to be a very capable backup last year. But when he was named the starter in the second half of the season his production plummeted. I don't think he had a single sack in the last month of the season or the playoffs. And to further prove that point, now that he's a regular starter in Cleveland, he stinks. Not just below average - no, I mean he shouldn't be starting. Not for Cleveland, not for us.

Our run D was average last year. Not great, but not especially poor either. Why don't you go ahead and look up the defensive rushing statistics from last year. Game by game or the overall season totals, it doesn't matter. Do it, and you'll see what I'm talking about.

[Gunakor]

TT is flirting at .500, which is unacceptable for the G&G, especially after taking two years to rebuild in the past 4 years.

He's not going to lose his job. Neither is MM. But blame for the season starts at the top, then goes to coaching.

Explain P. I hear you say this all the time, as if you are just spewing some company line. So tell me, after factoring in all of the intangibles such as injury and schedule, exactly how much blame can be placed on Ted Thompson? Then tell me why. Don't bring up Brett Favre, because there's nothing you can say that would convince me that the problem with this team is QB play. That's not the problem.

And after you are done ranting about all that, tell me how you expect anyone to rebuild a roster with 53 players on it in merely 2 seasons. Or 4 seasons for that matter...

who rebuilds after a 13-3 record and hosting nfccg???? thats pretty much where we are now!

at least our schedule SHOULD be easier next year...

me thinks pack will be lions only win this season

i predicted 11-5 this year with THE WHOLE TEAM returning so is sickening to watch the pack these days

DAYUM!!!

So if the WHOLE TEAM returns this season, and 13 wins becomes 5 or 6, do you blame the GM for the collaps or the players? A better way to ask this is if things didn't appear to be broken last year - especially on the defensive line - how can one blame the GM for not fixing these problems that don't appear to be broken.

I think you nailed it, although you might not realize it. You basically said the players we have are not playing up to the level they were last season, which is 100% correct. But that speaks to production, not talent. These guys are just as talented as they were last year, yet their production has gone down. That's on the coaches, not the GM. TT has put together a talented group of players - a group that, as you said, hosted the NFC Championship Game last season. TT did not fail us in that regard. TT's job is procuring talent, but it is MM's job to turn that talent into production on Sundays. MM has failed us big time by not getting these guys as prepared for gameday as they were last season.

Yeah, TT hired MM. But going back to my earlier point in this post, since it did not appear last offseason that MM was a bad choice as HC, nobody could expect TT to make a change there either. Nearly everybody from the coaches to the players that are on our roster this year were here last year, yet nearly nobody from the coaches to the players has performed up to their talent level. Is that TT's fault?

pack swagger did leave though

Ted Thompson is not responsible for the Packers swagger. Coaches, to a limited extent, maybe. But IMO the players are responsible for that one themselves. If this team lost its swagger, it is up to the players to get it back. Not the coaches, really, and certainly not the GM.

[PackerBlues]

I wonder if it would have helped all of these young players on this young team to have more veterans to look up to. Competing amongst themselves for a position is one thing, striving to be as good as a proven veteran though......

[Gunakor]

I wonder if it would have helped all of these young players on this young team to have more veterans to look up to. Competing amongst themselves for a position is one thing, striving to be as good as a proven veteran though......

There's veterans in the defensive backfield in Al Harris and Charles Woodson. There's veterans on the LB corps in Nick Barnett and Brandon Chillar. There's veterans on the DL in Ryan Pickett and Aaron Kampman. And yet our defense is bottom third in the NFL. I mean, maybe if it was the offense that was struggling and the defense that was playing well I could agree with you, but the youth of this team is on the offense and the offense is doing just fine. It is the more veteran group that is struggling the most.

[Bretsky]

With all this being said this is the last dam year I want to hear the "we're the youngest team in the NFL" talk