6-10 ............. Who is to blame?

[K-town]

He didn't create the problems we are dealing with right now.

Huh? The mess at defensive line (counting on Justin Harrell and KGB instead of upgrading in the offseason) and the inconsistency/lack of development of HIS o-line draftees are EXACTLY the problems he created.
I give him credit for Greg Jennings, Nick Collins and the rebuilding of an aging team with no depth. But I also hold him responsible for the stuff that didn't work out.

How is a player's inconsistency or lack of development the GM's fault? The coaches fault, sure. The GM's?

Do you even know what a GM does?

Yeah, I think a GM is supposed to procure talent. Did you not read the part where I questioned him not getting more and better personnel for the D-line? And the lack of development on the O-line might, MIGHT just be a result of his failure to correctly assess talent. Is that too hard for you to understand?

[MOBB DEEP]

TT is flirting at .500, which is unacceptable for the G&G, especially after taking two years to rebuild in the past 4 years.

He's not going to lose his job. Neither is MM. But blame for the season starts at the top, then goes to coaching.

Explain P. I hear you say this all the time, as if you are just spewing some company line. So tell me, after factoring in all of the intangibles such as injury and schedule, exactly how much blame can be placed on Ted Thompson? Then tell me why. Don't bring up Brett Favre, because there's nothing you can say that would convince me that the problem with this team is QB play. That's not the problem.

And after you are done ranting about all that, tell me how you expect anyone to rebuild a roster with 53 players on it in merely 2 seasons. Or 4 seasons for that matter...

who rebuilds after a 13-3 record and hosting nfccg???? thats pretty much where we are now!

at least our schedule SHOULD be easier next year...

me thinks pack will be lions only win this season

i predicted 11-5 this year with THE WHOLE TEAM returning so is sickening to watch the pack these days

DAYUM!!!

[Gunakor]

He didn't create the problems we are dealing with right now.

Huh? The mess at defensive line (counting on Justin Harrell and KGB instead of upgrading in the offseason) and the inconsistency/lack of development of HIS o-line draftees are EXACTLY the problems he created.
I give him credit for Greg Jennings, Nick Collins and the rebuilding of an aging team with no depth. But I also hold him responsible for the stuff that didn't work out.

How is a player's inconsistency or lack of development the GM's fault? The coaches fault, sure. The GM's?

Do you even know what a GM does?

Yeah, I think a GM is supposed to procure talent. Did you not read the part where I questioned him not getting more and better personnel for the D-line? And the lack of development on the O-line might, MIGHT just be a result of his failure to correctly assess talent. Is that too hard for you to understand?

Did you not pay attention last season when there was more talent on our D-Line than we knew what to do with? Is it TT's fault that Jolly and Pickett have regressed this season? It it TT's fault that Cullen Jenkins had a season ending injury? It is NOT TT's fault if these players aren't playing up to their ability. These guys are more talented than their production this year would illustrate. Last season should be a perfect example of what they CAN do but HAVEN'T done this year.

And as far as your arguement about the O-Line, the part of that line that TT brought in has been the most productive part of that line. TT is responsible for bringing in the interior line - the guards and the center. It is the TACKLES that have been the problem on the O-Line this year, and both of them were here way before TT got here. They too have not played up to their talent level this year, but I'm sure that you'd blame TT for that as well.

The problem might not be TT's ability to assess talent. Maybe it's the players not playing up to their talent level. As so many love to point out, we had basically the same players last year, and last year they played much better than they have this year. Was last year a fluke, where they were all playing over their heads? Or is this year a fluke, where they are all underacheiving? Regardless which one is the correct answer, things weren't broken last season. You can't expect our GM to fix something that doesn't appear to be broken. Stop using hindsight in your arguement because nobody was afforded that luxury when these decisions had to be made. They were the correct decisions at the time.

[Gunakor]

TT is flirting at .500, which is unacceptable for the G&G, especially after taking two years to rebuild in the past 4 years.

He's not going to lose his job. Neither is MM. But blame for the season starts at the top, then goes to coaching.

Explain P. I hear you say this all the time, as if you are just spewing some company line. So tell me, after factoring in all of the intangibles such as injury and schedule, exactly how much blame can be placed on Ted Thompson? Then tell me why. Don't bring up Brett Favre, because there's nothing you can say that would convince me that the problem with this team is QB play. That's not the problem.

And after you are done ranting about all that, tell me how you expect anyone to rebuild a roster with 53 players on it in merely 2 seasons. Or 4 seasons for that matter...

who rebuilds after a 13-3 record and hosting nfccg???? thats pretty much where we are now!

at least our schedule SHOULD be easier next year...

me thinks pack will be lions only win this season

i predicted 11-5 this year with THE WHOLE TEAM returning so is sickening to watch the pack these days

DAYUM!!!

So if the WHOLE TEAM returns this season, and 13 wins becomes 5 or 6, do you blame the GM for the collaps or the players? A better way to ask this is if things didn't appear to be broken last year - especially on the defensive line - how can one blame the GM for not fixing these problems that don't appear to be broken.

I think you nailed it, although you might not realize it. You basically said the players we have are not playing up to the level they were last season, which is 100% correct. But that speaks to production, not talent. These guys are just as talented as they were last year, yet their production has gone down. That's on the coaches, not the GM. TT has put together a talented group of players - a group that, as you said, hosted the NFC Championship Game last season. TT did not fail us in that regard. TT's job is procuring talent, but it is MM's job to turn that talent into production on Sundays. MM has failed us big time by not getting these guys as prepared for gameday as they were last season.

Yeah, TT hired MM. But going back to my earlier point in this post, since it did not appear last offseason that MM was a bad choice as HC, nobody could expect TT to make a change there either. Nearly everybody from the coaches to the players that are on our roster this year were here last year, yet nearly nobody from the coaches to the players has performed up to their talent level. Is that TT's fault?

[Gunakor]

Of course we have 20/20 hindsight! But at the time there was no way to know KGB would not come back after his injury and that Pickett and Jolly would not play as well this season as they did last year. I had NO problem with TT trading Williams. I remember last season after Jolly went down Williams began to start and our pass rush disappeared. TT thought he had the horses on the D line so he traded a backup, but then we had all sorts of hits at that position and the rest of the defense has suffered. So yes, it was moves on the D line by TT that has caused the collapse of our defense this season and I hope he addresses it in the offseason big time.

I absolutely agree. I just would not have expected him to address this issue before this season began, because there didn't appear to be an issue to address back in March. Like I've been saying, it is what he does THIS offseason to address some of these problems that he'll be judged on. He didn't do anything last offseason that any other GM coming off of a 13-3 season and an NFC Championship Game appearance wouldn't do.

[K-town]

Christ we can argue this until the (bell) cows come home.
In the NFC Championship game, our defensive line, the one with more talent than we know what to do with, got overrun.
Didn't have a problem with sending Corey Williams packing. Do have a problem with TT counting on an oft-injured Harrell who showed little if any signs of being a viable replacement. And I've got a problem with anyone believing Montgomery could step in if Jenkins missed significant time. Why not add some bodies in the draft or in free agency? And I mean more than a 4th rounder.
As for the middle of our offensive line being the most productive, that's like being the tallest midget. The tackles are worse, or at least older, but the guards can't create a reasonable push on a lot of runs. And they get collapsed in pass situations more often than is acceptable. Remember, Spitz and Colledge and Jack-of-all-trades-Mater-of-none Moll are Ted's hand-picjked guys. In their 3rd year of this system.
I don't know which year, 2007 or 2008 , was the "fluke."
You seem to fell that this season's debacle is due to incompetent or inefective coaching, combined with players not reaching their potential.
Could it be a combination of both personnel assessment/moves and coaching. Or is Ted infallible to you?

[th87]

Football's also a game of momentum. Win 3 in a row, and you'll probably win 4. Lose 3 in a row, and you'll lose the 4th.

The talent gap is really small in the NFL, so it's necessary to take advantage of all opportunities.

Shoddy performances created bad momentum, and momentum then did the rest. That's why we're 5-9.

[Freak Out]

Both the Packers losing seasons the last 17 years (?) have come under TTs watch...so it must be Sherman's fault.

[Pacopete4]

Both the Packers losing seasons the last 17 years (?) have come under TTs watch...so it must be Sherman's fault.

haha I saw this somewhere else as well and had a good chuckle. People want to compare him to Ron Wolf or even make remarks at Wolf for missing on a couple first rounders... yet we just didn't lose with him as our GM nor did we lose while Sherman was here either!

[HarveyWallbangers]

This year is on him. Only an idiot would blame him for the 2005 record. He just took over, and he had to clean up Sherman's mess. Next year is a big year for him though.

[Patler]

Who is to blame?

If you think the team underperformed its ability, in spite of the injuries, you blame the coaches.
If you think the talent is not what you thought from last year, you blame TT.
If you think the injuries severely impacted performance, along with unexpected player performance declines and simple "bad luck" you blame no one.

[Gunakor]

Or is Ted infallible to you?

No, he's not. But if he's responsible for this year's failure then he's responsible for last years success as well. You can't just lay last year entirely on Brett Favre and not credit TT at all if you don't lay this year entirely on the players also. That's my point. Either last year was a fluke and this year is the norm, or last year was the norm and this year is a fluke, or it's somewhere inbetween. Nobody knows, so nobody should be pointing fingers until they do. Agreed?

[K-town]

Or is Ted infallible to you?

No, he's not. But if he's responsible for this year's failure then he's responsible for last years success as well. You can't just lay last year entirely on Brett Favre and not credit TT at all if you don't lay this year entirely on the players also. That's my point. Either last year was a fluke and this year is the norm, or last year was the norm and this year is a fluke, or it's somewhere inbetween. Nobody knows, so nobody should be pointing fingers until they do. Agreed?

I'll agree on the somewhere inbetween.

Oh, and the Shadow Knows. Wherever the hell he is.

[Gunakor]

Both the Packers losing seasons the last 17 years (?) have come under TTs watch...so it must be Sherman's fault.

haha I saw this somewhere else as well and had a good chuckle. People want to compare him to Ron Wolf or even make remarks at Wolf for missing on a couple first rounders... yet we just didn't lose with him as our GM nor did we lose while Sherman was here either!

First off, we didn't win a goddamn thing under Sherman. If you are of the belief that it's about championships more than winning seasons, we've gotten closer to a championship under Thompson than we ever did under Sherman. Remember that much when comparing the two.

Now the first of TT's 2 losing seasons came after we were forced to dump a lot of high priced talent from our roster because Sherman left us in salary cap hell. It's remarkable how fast TT turned a maxed out payroll with no wiggle room into a very healthy payroll with enough excess to do basically whatever we want to do. On top of that, the guys he did start the season with were on IR at the end of it. Javon Walker and Terrance Murphy and Ahman Green and Tony Fisher and Najeh Davenport and Noah Herron and Samkon Gado and... I suppose that's TT's fault too, even though we were 8-8 the next season and 13-3 the following one. Don't forget that Charmin was coaching that team, so technically, the worst season we've had in 2 decades came under PSL's watch too. Not to mention the fact that whatshisname was still barking out signals at the LOS. Oh yeah, it was all TT's fault, for sure.

Now we get to this season, the second of his two losing seasons. We enter this season with basically the same roster as we had last year, with one noticeable exception on each side of the ball. The same roster that finished 13-3 and was one pass away from a Super Bowl last year. Tell me, what would you have done differently back in March? Weren't you just as amped about our young and talented roster as I was? Of course you were, everyone was. We were one play away from a Super Bowl, regardless what the average age or experience of our roster was. So why would you have changed anything? Given the benefit of hindsight, sure. But back then there was no way to predict a sub .500 season this year, given the fact that 20 of our 22 starters were starting last year.

This is what I don't understand about your arguement - you keep blaming TT for not making enough changes but have yet to explain what reason TT had for making more changes in the first place. We were 13-3 last year - if it ain't broke don't fix it. We are not close to that this year, which means something is now broken and needs fixing. Give TT a chance to fix this.

The same players and coaches that went 13-3 last year are the ones who are failing big time this year. That one isn't on TT unless he doesn't get it fixed when he has a chance to. If he does not fix what is broken with the personnel on this team during THIS offseason, then the blame falls on him. But he cannot be blamed for what happened last offseason, because he did what any good GM would do with a 13-3 roster - he left it stay as it was for the most part.

Now go on and tell me about the change at QB, as if that has been the difference between 13-3 and this year in the first place.

[Pacopete4]

Both the Packers losing seasons the last 17 years (?) have come under TTs watch...so it must be Sherman's fault.

haha I saw this somewhere else as well and had a good chuckle. People want to compare him to Ron Wolf or even make remarks at Wolf for missing on a couple first rounders... yet we just didn't lose with him as our GM nor did we lose while Sherman was here either!

First off, we didn't win a goddamn thing under Sherman. If you are of the belief that it's about championships more than winning seasons, we've gotten closer to a championship under Thompson than we ever did under Sherman. Remember that much when comparing the two.

Now the first of TT's 2 losing seasons came after we were forced to dump a lot of high priced talent from our roster because Sherman left us in salary cap hell. It's remarkable how fast TT turned a maxed out payroll with no wiggle room into a very healthy payroll with enough excess to do basically whatever we want to do. On top of that, the guys he did start the season with were on IR at the end of it. Javon Walker and Terrance Murphy and Ahman Green and Tony Fisher and Najeh Davenport and Noah Herron and Samkon Gado and... I suppose that's TT's fault too, even though we were 8-8 the next season and 13-3 the following one. Don't forget that Charmin was coaching that team, so technically, the worst season we've had in 2 decades came under PSL's watch too. Not to mention the fact that whatshisname was still barking out signals at the LOS. Oh yeah, it was all TT's fault, for sure.

Now we get to this season, the second of his two losing seasons. We enter this season with basically the same roster as we had last year, with one noticeable exception on each side of the ball. The same roster that finished 13-3 and was one pass away from a Super Bowl last year. Tell me, what would you have done differently back in March? Weren't you just as amped about our young and talented roster as I was? Of course you were, everyone was. We were one play away from a Super Bowl, regardless what the average age or experience of our roster was. So why would you have changed anything? Given the benefit of hindsight, sure. But back then there was no way to predict a sub .500 season this year, given the fact that 20 of our 22 starters were starting last year.

This is what I don't understand about your arguement - you keep blaming TT for not making enough changes but have yet to explain what reason TT had for making more changes in the first place. We were 13-3 last year - if it ain't broke don't fix it. We are not close to that this year, which means something is now broken and needs fixing. Give TT a chance to fix this.

The same players and coaches that went 13-3 last year are the ones who are failing big time this year. That one isn't on TT unless he doesn't get it fixed when he has a chance to. If he does not fix what is broken with the personnel on this team during THIS offseason, then the blame falls on him. But he cannot be blamed for what happened last offseason, because he did what any good GM would do with a 13-3 roster - he left it stay as it was for the most part.

Now go on and tell me about the change at QB, as if that has been the difference between 13-3 and this year in the first place.

No, everyone wasnt. Some people, believe it or not, actually saw this shit coming. There would be a tumble effect, most the time there is. He took his shot and got toasted, and in a year... he will lose his job because of it. And to me, thats awesome because he is a fuckin snake that deserves everything thats happening this season. Taking a line from Numb here but Karma sure is a bitch!


Oh and.. HE DIDNT FUCKING FIX US FROM LAST SEASON! He left our shit ass pass rush be even worse off even though he knew KGB was aging and he didnt fix our run D... yea, GREAT GM!