VICK DA GREAT

[MOBB DEEP]

I was trying intentionally to be more ridiculous than MOBB.

u think it would be ridiculous to have a panel or a panel including black professionals?

Why, because a black professional coming from his/her background and experiences is more likely give a well informed opinion than a white professional?

No, because black professionals will naturally understand the dog fighting culture. Because it must be a racial issue, not a socioeconomic one.

Moob, please go back and read KYPack's post on the issue of the racial makeup of the dog fighting community from his slightly different perspective.

nope, i wasnt talking only about the vick situation when i said goddell has too much power and that there should be a "panel"...just u all wait and see; folk will start talking more about this issue in the near future..and yes, race will play a role...id be willing to bet that 80% of black players think vick should be reinstated unconditionally and that the commish is abusing his power

of course i dont expect folk at packerrats to appreciate the quandry what with the demographic here

and i wouldnt be surprised in more black folk support vick than white folk; i think we are much more forgiving (like Jesus) while white folk are more judgemental and self-righteous

my opinion which cant be proved of course

[Scott Campbell]

You can't play the race card every time a black guy gets in trouble.

[Waldo]

I'm beginning to seriously question whether PETA will actually protest him.

We all assume that Mike Vick is the same guy that went into prison, and that situations are the same as when he went into prison. That isn't the case.

Dogfighting has changed since Vick went to prison. On a large organized scale it has declined. On a small scale (not even for gambling purposes, but street cred of having the most BA dog) it has drastically increased, both the direct result of Vick's case.

Groups have reached out to Vick (including PETA I believe) for one big reason. No single voice in the nation can influence the people fighting dogs quite like Vick. Nobody has the cred that he has and respect that he has among those fighting dogs. Nobody has his experience. Nobody has his fame.

For Vick to really show that he is changed and to change his image, it is pretty clear what his off the field public focus is going to be.

It would be inane and idiotic for any sort of organized PETA anti-Vick rally to take place. Cut off your nose to spite your face? Sure you might have a few individuals, but protesting doesn't work without some sort of organization, and any bigger group that typically would do the organization would actually oppose any protesting knowing how Vick can help their cause.

The time for protesting Vick was 2 years ago. That is when the time was right for the dog jokes, when the time was right for the hate. If you believe that he has been rehabilitated, then you also have to believe that he is currently by far the best anti-dogfighting spokesman in the world, and it only gets better and stronger the bigger he becomes in this 2nd go round in the NFL.

Even if you think that you will lose fans by signing Vick, the opposite is also true. The guy is insanely popular. Not quite Brett Favre, but if Vick still has what he had, his fans will follow. He was not called the NFL's most exciting player for nothing.

I would love for the Pack to sign Vick if he came cheap, and to get the roster spot of the #3 TE or #2 FB.

[pbmax]

over half of the people responding to an espn poll voted that they feel Vicks suspension is too harsh

69% of people on a CNN poll don't want Vick on their team.

Two different questions. I think 5 games for Vick is reasonable after the prison term. But I don't want him on the Packers even if its less.

I'm probably putting words in MOBB's mouth but I think he was trying to say "Look at all the support for Vick da Great."

69% don't want Vick on their team which is probably a lot closer to the actual feel of "The People."

Perhaps, but I read his post as supporting that there is a quantifiable public opinion that Vick's suspension is too long.

You CNN number might represent the public opinion on Vick himself, but phrased as it is, it also might be an indictment of his QB skills. And I am not sure you can tease one out from the other. That said, one doesn't necessarily contradict the other.

[MOBB DEEP]

You can't play the race card every time a black guy gets in trouble.

personally IM not playn race card at all

yo, white folks home from work so 46% think vicks punishment too harsh; down from 50%

[Patler]

and i wouldnt be surprised in more black folk support vick than white folk; i think we are much more forgiving (like Jesus) while white for are more judgemental and self-righteous

Well...., that's awful judgmental and self-righteous on your part, isn't it???

[MOBB DEEP]

I would love for the Pack to sign Vick if he came cheap, and to get the roster spot of the #3 TE or #2 FB.

bingo!

but he prob has too much swag for the hickish packer backers

[MOBB DEEP]

and i wouldnt be surprised in more black folk support vick than white folk; i think we are much more forgiving (like Jesus) while white for are more judgemental and self-righteous

Well...., that's awful judgmental and self-righteous on your part, isn't it???

i may not have stated that the way i meant it out of laziness; u know us black folk are shiftless and lazy

[Bossman641]

You can't play the race card every time a black guy gets in trouble.

You can't?

[MOBB DEEP]

You can't play the race card every time a black guy gets in trouble.

You can't?

al is THE MAN

[pbmax]

You can't play the race card every time a black guy gets in trouble.

No, except in egregious cases, it cannot. But while race cannot excuse individual behavior, it does has an affect on a group. And having that experience brought to bear on positions of authority is important.

There was a recent Supreme Court case about whether a driver was using excessive speed on a 2 lane highway. If he was found to be doing this, the penalty was much harsher than simple speeding.

In dissent, Stewart, I think, mentioned that none of his Court colleagues remembered travelling mainly on two lane highways (as opposed to the Interstate System) when the Speed Limit could have been well above 55 miles per hour and involved passing slower cars by moving into the oncoming lane.

If you have driven that speed legally, or even experienced it, then your view of the facts of the case could be very different. As an aside, if the law truly hinges on that shaky kind of definition of excessive or dangerous, it would seem to be a poorly written law.

[mraynrand]

I'm beginning to seriously question whether PETA will actually protest him.

We all assume that Mike Vick is the same guy that went into prison, and that situations are the same as when he went into prison. That isn't the case.

Dogfighting has changed since Vick went to prison. On a large organized scale it has declined. On a small scale (not even for gambling purposes, but street cred of having the most BA dog) it has drastically increased, both the direct result of Vick's case.

Groups have reached out to Vick (including PETA I believe) for one big reason. No single voice in the nation can influence the people fighting dogs quite like Vick. Nobody has the cred that he has and respect that he has among those fighting dogs. Nobody has his experience. Nobody has his fame.

For Vick to really show that he is changed and to change his image, it is pretty clear what his off the field public focus is going to be.

It would be inane and idiotic for any sort of organized PETA anti-Vick rally to take place. Cut off your nose to spite your face? Sure you might have a few individuals, but protesting doesn't work without some sort of organization, and any bigger group that typically would do the organization would actually oppose any protesting knowing how Vick can help their cause.

The time for protesting Vick was 2 years ago. That is when the time was right for the dog jokes, when the time was right for the hate. If you believe that he has been rehabilitated, then you also have to believe that he is currently by far the best anti-dogfighting spokesman in the world, and it only gets better and stronger the bigger he becomes in this 2nd go round in the NFL.

Even if you think that you will lose fans by signing Vick, the opposite is also true. The guy is insanely popular. Not quite Brett Favre, but if Vick still has what he had, his fans will follow. He was not called the NFL's most exciting player for nothing.

I would love for the Pack to sign Vick if he came cheap, and to get the roster spot of the #3 TE or #2 FB.

Great post. The USA is a country of second chances, for all but the most egregious acts and heinous crimes. Vick has a chance to redeem himself and cause a lot of great things to happen if he only takes the correct path. He's a young man with a lot of life ahead of him - I hope he uses it for the greater good. I wish him the best of luck and all the prayers. For a lot of you who are skeptics, I suggest signing up for a prison ministry or talk to a reformed convict. There a a lot of guys that did wrong and have suffered incredibly - and continue to suffer - even despite finding a way to turn it around. The odds are against former convicts, and the stakes of couldn't be higher. Sorry to soapbox it, but just thinking about the difference between a guy turning it around and making good versus a life forever wasted...what Vick did isn't beyond redemption and it seems worth it to give all the support to make it work out.

[Scott Campbell]

I would love for the Pack to sign Vick if he came cheap, and to get the roster spot of the #3 TE or #2 FB.

bingo!

but he prob has too much swag for the hickish packer backers

Not swag - baggage.

That, and his career has been mostly hype to this point.

[Patler]

We all assume that Mike Vick is the same guy that went into prison, and that situations are the same as when he went into prison. That isn't the case.

How can you possible know if he has changed, or if it is all a front to get re-instated? He looked Goodell in the eye and lied before. Whether he is truly rehabilitated or not can not be determined until he has been out and free for sometime. Who he associates with a year from now, or two years from now is much more relevant to his actual rehabilitation than anything he says or does right now. After all, he could be scamming for 10s of millions of dollars.

Dogfighting has changed since Vick went to prison. On a large organized scale it has declined. On a small scale (not even for gambling purposes, but street cred of having the most BA dog) it has drastically increased, both the direct result of Vick's case.

I doubt that very much. They may have gone more underground, but the simple arrest of Vick would not alter something that deeply rooted. I have to believe that there are a lot bigger fish in dog fighting than Vick was, and I would be surprised if they are scared off because of his arrest.

Groups have reached out to Vick (including PETA I believe) for one big reason. No single voice in the nation can influence the people fighting dogs quite like Vick. Nobody has the cred that he has and respect that he has among those fighting dogs. Nobody has his experience. Nobody has his fame.

Well, sure they have. Why not, especially if he can put on a great facade (or actually has changed)?

I agree that there may not be a lot of protests, especially if Vick plays the ambassador role well. But, I'm not ready to assume all is well and good with Vick until he proves it after temptation comes his way.

As for the Packers and Vick, it wouldn't bother me that much if the decided to bring him in. I doubt he would be the most despicable player ever to wear the green and gold, and there may be worse in the future.

[Waldo]

Another aspect to Vick that hasn't really been brought up much...

There is a very real possibility that his best football is ahead of him, not behind him.

Vick was always a hardhead that didn't take to coaching well, full of himself, led a questionable life outside the game, and had questionable focus.

He was also the most mobile and athletic QB to ever play the game and had a rocket for an arm.

Everything was taken away from him and he's had two years to think about it. And he needs it.

The very real possibility exists that Vick's hardhead/full of himself aspect has been completely humbled and he becomes extremely coachable, that outside the game he is going to be a dedicated good citizen and gives back to the community (namely be a huge voice against dogfighting), and that his focus on the game will be far greater than it ever has been before.

Doesn't hurt that Dungy is currently his personal adviser and life coach.

In two years Vick could easily be slowing a little (but still as slippery as anybody in the pocket), but a far better passer than he has ever been before.