Favre: the man, the legend. Are we having fun yet?

[HarveyWallbangers]

So only because of Favre was it shown live.

Hard to say--since Favre was on the team through 2007 and he showed up during the game last year. I doubt it had to do with Favre because NFL Network had no way of knowing Favre would show up during the game when they scheduled it last year. I guess we'll know the answer soon enough--since Favre likely get off the plane while the scrimmage is going on this year.

[MJZiggy]

Ron Wolf Mike Holmgren, Brett Favre, and Reggie White. Ron Wolf hired Mike Holmgren, trade a number one draft pick for Favre.

Favre plays game against a Philly with Reggie White in 1992. Favre seperates his left shoulder after taking a crushing hit from Reggie White. White thinks Favre is done. Next series Favre comes running back on the field to lead the Packers back to win the game in the second half. Reggie is astounded by the heart and leadership of a young Favre.

White is free agent in 2003, he can chose to go any where he wants for any amount of money. Wolf offers White 17 million dollars. He chooses Green Bay, because of God, and the money, but also he realized he had a QB on his team that could take this team further than he had ever been in the playoffs.

White starts slowly recruiting defensive players to come to Green Bay, Sean Jones, Santana Dotson, and Keith Jackson on offense.

The best player on offense that Favre ever played with was Sterling Sharpe. He was lost in 1995 before the Packers ever made the Super Bowl, was never on a team that went to an NFC Championship game. Favre had a pretty ordinary offensive line in the 1990s the only Pro Bowl linemen was Frank Winters, and I think he was an alternate. Ziggy, without looking it up(which you will) name the starting left tackle in the 1996 Super Bowl for the Packers.

How many pro bowls did any running back, tight end, wide receiver make after playing with Favre?

Ron Wolf was a fantastic GM, but he had his misses in the draft especially in early rounds, but he made up for it in later rounds and he did a fantastic job of acquiring veterans to blend with younger players. Wolf wasn't afraid once his roster was solidified to go after those one or two players that put the team over the top. Keith Jackson, Dotson, Eugene Robinson, Sean Jones, and Ahman Green.

Mike Homgren, biggest accomplishement was taking Favre and turning him into a three time MVP. Next was being one of the best head coaches of his time, excellent with his hiring of coaches, especially on defense. West Coast genius. Cost the Packers in 1997 another Super Bowl, with is underhanding pleading for a Job as a GM and Head coach for a team on the West Coast. Lost focus on winning the second Super Bowl. Lost focus on his 1998 team.

I will never say that Favre did it all himself. I don't think the Packers win a Super Bowl play for another one, and make four NFC Championship games without Brett Favre.

[/quote]

You don't look at what happened 10 (geez, almost 15 years ago), you look at what will make your team better for the NEXT ten years. I bet they were saying the same thing when Starr and Lombardi left. We are already much better off than we were at that point, no? How do you know Raji isn't the next White? McCarthy/Capers the Holmgren combination (he didn't do it alone either and nearly got fired in Seattle, remember?)

Oh and the name of the left tackle doesn't matter. If he didn't do his job, Favre would have spent the game on his back and we'd have lost. Without question. Hell, without Desmond Howard, we'd likely have lost. Favre was not MVP of that game for a reason (that many so EASILY forget)

[Fritz]

I think Partial got "Ziggied" on the last page...

I have my own view of the Favre saga, and that colors what I'm about to say, but it does seem to me that the over-the-top Favre supporters are so rabid their "arguments" are easily deflated, and their responses then become either changing the subject or calling other people homos.

As for tonight, I don't get HBO, but I'm hoping to somehow, someway see the interview. It should be fun. My guess is that Favre will not talk about much except how his arm feels and how excited he is about maybe - and I'm guessing he'll be coy - maybe playing for the Vikings. He'll gush about that team, methinks. Keep it pretty bland.

[pbmax]

Ron Wolf Mike Holmgren, Brett Favre, and Reggie White. Ron Wolf hired Mike Holmgren, trade a number one draft pick for Favre...

Favre plays game against a Philly with Reggie White in 1992. Favre seperates his left shoulder after taking a crushing hit from Reggie White. White thinks Favre is done. Next series Favre comes running back on the field to lead the Packers back to win the game in the second half. Reggie is astounded by the heart and leadership of a young Favre...

I will never say that Favre did it all himself. I don't think the Packers win a Super Bowl play for another one, and make four NFC Championship games without Brett Favre.

I agree with much of Nutz's post, but I have three points.

1. Reggie really signed for the money. The story about leaving it in God's hands and Brett's leadership make for great copy, but they likely did not carry the argument. I think Reggie was genuinely impressed with Favre (mostly after but also before he signed). It was pointed out in Philly at the time of the signing that he would make similar comments about Randall Cunningham, trying to raise him to the level of a franchise leader. That it worked with Favre is a credit to Favre. Reggie gets enormous credit just for caring. He also gets credit for my favorite Holmgren story; when Reggie asked Mike if Andre Rison could address the team prior to a playoff game in 96. Even telling the story years later you can tell Holmgren was convinced Reggie had hit his head on something.

2. There are no more Reggies and Deions in FA. Look at the cap numbers for teams. 2/3 are under the cap enough that they need to do nothing to sign the remaining street guys and draft picks. 1/3 of the teams are so far under the cap they are using the money to sign NEXT year's contracts (Packers). And that is after FA is over. Players like Reggie and Deion don't make it there.

3. Earl Dotson and Aaron Taylor (before and after knee surgery) were better lineman than Frankie Bag o Doughnuts. Pro Bowl or not. So was Timmerman, though that is not exactly the timeline you are discussing exactly.

4. Ok I lied, its 4 things. The greatest strength of those Super Bowl teams was the defense. When the defense got old, it was over championship wise. And when the Defense struggled (versus Dallas, Minnesota at home and early 90s Lions home games) Favre tended to have forgettable games.

[Scott Campbell]

2. There are no more Reggies and Deions in FA. Look at the cap numbers for teams. 2/3 are under the cap enough that they need to do nothing to sign the remaining street guys and draft picks. 1/3 of the teams are so far under the cap they are using the money to sign NEXT year's contracts (Packers). And that is after FA is over. Players like Reggie and Deion don't make it there.

Some people will use Haynesworth as example of FA offerings, but guys with that kind of talent in todays market always have some kind of baggage that contributed to them being available. That's not to say that some of them won't work out. There just aren't the no brainer signings that Reggie was.

[GBRulz]

I hate Michael Irvin, but he makes a lot of sense on this one:

“I love Favre and I think he’s been a phenomenal talent for a long time,” Irvin said. “But when I think about it now, I say, ‘Stop it already.’ I don’t mind that you still want to play football, but do you want to play so much, and you want to get back at [Green Bay General Manager] Ted Thompson so much, that you’re willing to go back into Lambeau and hurt those fans that supported you for so long?”

Sums up exactly how I feel. I couldn't care less if Favre wanted to play somewhere else, I would even cheer for him to win a superbowl. But the way he handled his business last summer and the fact now that he is out to get revenge on the Packers, he can get bent.

And for those who want to say that Favre isn't motivated by revenge, you're delirious, he's said as much himself already.

I was really irritated when I read that statement about Irvin. The fact that I agree with that idiot on something just totally ruined my day!!

[pbmax]

2. There are no more Reggies and Deions in FA. Look at the cap numbers for teams. 2/3 are under the cap enough that they need to do nothing to sign the remaining street guys and draft picks. 1/3 of the teams are so far under the cap they are using the money to sign NEXT year's contracts (Packers). And that is after FA is over. Players like Reggie and Deion don't make it there.

Some people will use Haynesworth as example of FA offerings, but guys with that kind of talent in todays market always have some kind of baggage that contributed to them being available. That's not to say that some of them won't work out. There just aren't the no brainer signings that Reggie was.

Exactly. Albert is a huge question mark, just look at the track record of the team that signed him. Sensible organizations wanted no part of committing that kind of guaranteed money to him. The gamble might pay off, but there is a tremendous risk.

[GBRulz]

Was it live? Because if it wasn't live it doesn't count.

Yes. Well, at least one or two years. Last year, it might not have been. Actually, I think it was--because I remember watching Favre getting off the plane and all that.

Yup, it's been live since the NFLN started airing it in '05 when the Bills came to town. So, basically the first 10 years of this scrimmage were not televised nationally, only the previous four have been. Heck, the first 5 weren't televised period but then it grew more and more popular.

[Bossman641]

Here's the newest lie to be exposed from the Favre camp. Why people continue to think Favre is telling the truth on anything, or somehow got screwed over, is beyond me.

If you remember, TT and MM said that a few weeks after Brett retired he told them he wanted to come back. I think this is when they were set to fly back down there and talk to him about unretiring before he changed his mind days before they were set to meet.

After TT and MM said that, Favre went on Greta and said that the Packers were lying. He said that he had never called them about coming back.

Well, Bus Cook admitted over the weekend that Brett was set to unretire in late March but he conveniently leaves out the part about Brett backing out of it.

"Last summer ... we still don't know why, and nobody's every given us a reason why, the guy wanted to go back and play one more year and for some reason, they didn't want Brett back," Cook said of the Packers. "Within a few weeks of announcing his retirement, he told them 'I want to come back.' That just didn't happen, obviously.

Here's the timeline again if you want to catch up on everything.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080805/PKR01/80805191

[Pacopete4]

Here's the timeline again if you want to catch up on everything.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/...PKR01/80805191

A timeline that does have the chance to be wrong... I mean hell, the Packers hired Ari Fleischer to deal with this crap.. maybe they in fact were lying? But then again.. maybe they are not. But to base your opinion on only what the Packers have said is not right either..

[Bossman641]

Here's the timeline again if you want to catch up on everything.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/...PKR01/80805191

A timeline that does have the chance to be wrong... I mean hell, the Packers hired Ari Fleischer to deal with this crap.. maybe they in fact were lying? But then again.. maybe they are not. But to base your opinion on only what the Packers have said is not right either..

I would agree with your take if there were any instances where the Packers were proven to be wrong. The closest thing I'm aware of was the cell phone story, which the Packers let linger for a day or two before denying it.

There are multiple instances where Favre has been proven to be lying. Until the organization gives me any reason to not believe them, I will choose to believe that side of the story.

[cpk1994]

He also gets credit for my favorite Holmgren story; when Reggie asked Mike if Andre Rison could address the team prior to a playoff game in 96. Even telling the story years later you can tell Holmgren was convinced Reggie had hit his head on something.

I heard that story a little differently/. According to SI in their Jan 20, 1997 issue it was LeRoy Butler who asked Holmgren if Andre could speak to the team before the NFC Championship game:

Claimed off waivers by the Packers in the wake of their loss in Dallas, Rison had become more and more comfortable with his new teammates, whoi embraced him like a wayward stepbrother. Still, Mike Holmgren's jaw dropped when Butler came to him before the game against the Panthers and said, "Coach, let Andre talk. He's got the fire. Our young guys need to feel that"

Now, I'm not saying you are wrong, but this is the only account of Rison being asked to speak to the team I have seen.

[Fritz]

Here's the newest lie to be exposed from the Favre camp. Why people continue to think Favre is telling the truth on anything, or somehow got screwed over, is beyond me.

If you remember, TT and MM said that a few weeks after Brett retired he told them he wanted to come back. I think this is when they were set to fly back down there and talk to him about unretiring before he changed his mind days before they were set to meet.

After TT and MM said that, Favre went on Greta and said that the Packers were lying. He said that he had never called them about coming back.

Well, Bus Cook admitted over the weekend that Brett was set to unretire in late March but he conveniently leaves out the part about Brett backing out of it.

"Last summer ... we still don't know why, and nobody's every given us a reason why, the guy wanted to go back and play one more year and for some reason, they didn't want Brett back," Cook said of the Packers. "Within a few weeks of announcing his retirement, he told them 'I want to come back.' That just didn't happen, obviously.

Here's the timeline again if you want to catch up on everything.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/...PKR01/80805191

Ouchie!!!

[RIPackerFan]

I would say the Late March item is gray - I am not sure who is telling the full truth on that one......

The meeting never took place, so we really don't know whether the Pack was going to go to him with open arms or not. However, I know that TT wanted his guy in. Why?

I am not sure how many of you deal with top level executives, but when they get a new position, they want to get their guys in. Favre was an untouchable until he retired - which gave TT the perfect reason to put his guy in (AR).

A top level executive always wants to be the reason for the success. As an example, let's say that in the next three years, the Pack never goes above .500 - TT will be gone, and most people will believe that the 13 - 3 season was because of Favre (while this may not be true - that is what people will think).

However, if we go to the playoffs in the next 3 years, everyone will think TT is a great GM - and Favre won't be in the picture, since it will be done with TT's guys.

To get the due respect - TT needed Favre gone and to get it done without him. With TT having his replacement, it was in his best interest (and since he felt Arod was a great replacement) the team's best interest to replace Favre.

I don't begrudge TT for this, he was doing what he needed to do, but I just don't believe management is telling the whole truth (that being said, I don't think management did anything wrong - even if the above was the case).

[Scott Campbell]

A top level executive always wants to be the reason for the success.

Marginal top level executives perhaps. The best I've been around just want the business model to thrive, and aren't so paranoid about who gets credit for what.