Rumors: Rodgers may hand off to Westbrook

[Tarlam!]

Patlerized.

The closest thing to being knighted on Packer Rats!

Though I stand my opinion. Call it what you like, the guy needs an outside influence to perform to a higher standard. The fact that he performs is the primary concern.

Take a guy like Al Harris by comparison, or Driver or Woodson, even guys like T-O- and Larry Fitzgerald. Pure self motivation. These guys strive to be the best they can be.

Sorry, I don't see that dedication in Grant without there being some outside leverage. And, neither does the free sporting press.

[Joemailman]

He had Favre all those years and managed just one SB win and just two appearances. Many GMs with elite QBs have done much better than that.

But then Wolf had Favre only because he went out and got him. Ted got his franchise QB, too. But there was a huge element of pure dumb luck to Rodgers falling that far. I give Ted all the credit in world for pulling the trigger, but Rodgers never should've been there.

The team Wolf put together was certainly good enough to win two titles in a row. I don't think you can pin that Bronco loss on personnel. You can always have more good players, but that team was good enough.

I would also give Wolf bonus points because he engineered a total 180 on the perception surrounding Green Bay at the time (the start of FA) when it mattered most. Ted inherited a team that was already considered one of the class acts in the NFL, because of the work that guys like Wolf and Bob Harlan did.

I guess my point is that it's difficult to assign credit and blame with any degree of accuracy in terms of wins and losses and whether a player pans out or busts. But the change in attitude in and toward Green Bay is a tangible thing that Wolf can clearly hang his hat on.

This is a huge point. Wolf's greatest challenge when he came to Green Bay was changing a losing atmosphere. Many were questioning whether it was still possible to have success in little Green Bay. You can argue whether Wolf or Thompson inherited the better roster. However, there is no doubt that that Thompson inherited a more stable franchise situation than the one Wolf inherited.

[falco]

However, there is no doubt that that Thompson inherited a more stable franchise situation than the one Wolf inherited.

That is true, but also Thompson has played a major role in the continuity of the franchise's success. Had Rodgers been a bust and we turned in several losing seasons, things would be different. I still maintain that Wolf had the bar set much lower when he arrived.

[Tarlam!]

Unless the Pack wins a SB, Wolf will always be considered the better, I think.

But is that really justified? As they say, even a blind squirrel....

It's tough to say today. We'll need to measure the entire body of work before we can genuinely say, TT outmanaged Wolf, or not.

Personally, I am a huge TT fan, but an even bigger Harlan fan. I think Harlan really put the Packers back on the map.

[Patler]

Unless the Pack wins a SB, Wolf will always be considered the better, I think.

But is that really justified? As they say, even a blind squirrel....

It's tough to say today. We'll need to measure the entire body of work before we can genuinely say, TT outmanaged Wolf, or not.

Personally, I am a huge TT fan, but an even bigger Harlan fan. I think Harlan really put the Packers back on the map.

I agree with that 100%. No matter how much credit Harlan gets, in my opinion it is deserved, and perhaps not enough. He engineered the structure and brought in the people to turn the franchise around, and Wolf was a big part of that. Changing the perception of GB was a bigger success for Wolf than his single SB win, in my opinion. Shelling out the $ for White was a big part of that, and Harlan had enough sense to approve it and let Wolf do what he thought was right. (Personally, no matter what Reggie said, I don't think God had a lot to do with it! )

[DonHutson]

He engineered the structure and brought in the people to turn the franchise around, and Wolf was a big part of that.

Structure being a key word, not just in terms of the organizational structure, but in terms of the physical structures. Getting an indoor practice facility and state of the art locker rooms, weight rooms, training facilities, etc. had a lot to do with making a good first impression for prospective players.

The financial benefits of the stadium renovation speak for themselves.

[DonHutson]

DH, I don't know that I disagree with the bold-faced line above. But what do you think did happen that allowed Denver to so badly whip the Green Bay defense? It was a complete beat down.

It wasn't one of Holmy's better coaching days (didn't they leave themselves shorthanded on the DL. then there was an injury?), but overall, it wasn't like they got their asses kicked. It was a highly competitive game that could have gone either way. Yeah, the D got pushed around but the offense was moving the ball on Denver as well.

If Denver had vastly superior personnel you could argue Wolf didn't build a good enough team to win that year. I don't think that was the case. Any number of minor things could've gone differently to result in a Packer win in that game. It was two pretty equal teams, and somebody had to lose.

[Bretsky]

Thompson > Wolf = True

don't agree at all

win a title and then come back to make the argument

some will say Wolf won in a different era

All of the GM's were playing under the same rules as Wolf

I understand the importance of a title, but I think too much is made of that for Wolf. I think it is a huge negative for Wolf that he won ONLY one title while having a QB as talented as Favre. Getting to only two with Favre is also a negative, in my opinion.

The build up to '96 was long, but reasonable, but the fall was sudden and never recovered from, though Wolf himself abandoned ship shortly thereafter. I have this inkling of a feeling that his sudden and unexpected retirement had a bit of a motivation from his desire to retain his image. Did he maybe realize the Packers were not going to get back to legitimate SB contention anytime soon, and he did not want to be associated with it?

I respect Wolf for what he did, but the pedestal I put him on is not real tall. TT's pedestal is under construction. Whether it is ever installed, and the final dimensions are yet to be determined.

The reason Wolf gets a nice pedastal from me is he brought me the only title I witnessed in professional sports as a fan

He turned around a losing organizaton that nobody wanted to come to into a winning one that could land free agents.

He went out and made the bold move of giving up a first round draft pick for a drinking partying burnout who was drafted in round two.

And I disagree that is equivilent to TT watching Rodgers free fall and selecting him. Great move by TT. And incredibly smart. But not nearly as bold as what Wolf did.

I agree many of Wolf's later moves were piss poor...Rhodes...Sherman as GM...the final draft.

But he still got a title; Miami never got one with Dan Marino. We can make a decent Hall of Fame List of QB's who were absent a title. We got one.

The day TT brings us a championship, and I think the blocks are aligned pretty well for us to get one soon, then I will start compariing him to Ron Wolf.

Bring two titles and he'll get his own pedastal above Wolf.

[Bretsky]

He had Favre all those years and managed just one SB win and just two appearances. Many GMs with elite QBs have done much better than that.

But then Wolf had Favre only because he went out and got him. Ted got his franchise QB, too. But there was a huge element of pure dumb luck to Rodgers falling that far. I give Ted all the credit in world for pulling the trigger, but Rodgers never should've been there.

The team Wolf put together was certainly good enough to win two titles in a row. I don't think you can pin that Bronco loss on personnel. You can always have more good players, but that team was good enough.

I would also give Wolf bonus points because he engineered a total 180 on the perception surrounding Green Bay at the time (the start of FA) when it mattered most. Ted inherited a team that was already considered one of the class acts in the NFL, because of the work that guys like Wolf and Bob Harlan did.

I guess my point is that it's difficult to assign credit and blame with any degree of accuracy in terms of wins and losses and whether a player pans out or busts. But the change in attitude in and toward Green Bay is a tangible thing that Wolf can clearly hang his hat on.

DH, I don't know that I disagree with the bold-faced line above. But what do you think did happen that allowed Denver to so badly whip the Green Bay defense? It was a complete beat down.

I've watched that game several times...demoralizing. As crappy as our D played one of the key plays in that game was a third down pass when Favre was running to his left scrambling and he made a horrific pass to a wide open Antonio Freeman who had a lot of green running space ahead of him. If he makes that pass it's possible Denver never even gets the ball back for the go ahead TD.

My point....as bad as our game plan seemed to be....we still had a shot to win two in a row . We had the personnell to do it; we were 12pt favorites and laid a bad egg on the grand stage.

[Bretsky]

Rodgers fell to TT as much as Favre did to Wolf. Favre dropped to the 2nd round, came in with no fanfare and made no mark at all in Atlanta for whatever reasons. Rodgers feel in the draft for whatever reasons. Wolf saw something in Favre, and TT saw something in Rodgers that apparently failed to impress others who could have had either player.

They both deserve credit for getting their QBs. Finding a QB is crucial for any GM. Both GMs risked a 1st round pick they could have used for immediate help elsewhere. Both had established pro-bowl QBs on their rosters when they made the moves for another. Neither Favre nor Rodgers was a certainty when reeled in.

Disagree; Rodgers feel to TT and give TT credit for a great pick there

Wolf went out and took a big gamble by trading a 1st round pick for a partying burnout at the time. There wasn't much falling IMO when it was clear Favre was on a crash course toward not a whole lot of good in Atlants. Huge Gamble...many fans, at the time, were not fone of trading a 1st for a past 2nd round draft pick who had no success up to that point.

[Bretsky]

Patlerized.

The closest thing to being knighted on Packer Rats!

Though I stand my opinion. Call it what you like, the guy needs an outside influence to perform to a higher standard. The fact that he performs is the primary concern.

Take a guy like Al Harris by comparison, or Driver or Woodson, even guys like T-O- and Larry Fitzgerald. Pure self motivation. These guys strive to be the best they can be.

Sorry, I don't see that dedication in Grant without there being some outside leverage. And, neither does the free sporting press.

Not sure I agree here Tarlem, and I'm not a huge fan of Grant being great or anything. He's a solid top 12 or so back IMO.

Have you heard about how some players are reaching out to Jay Glazer for help with their agility, strenth and speed through Mixed Martial Arts ?

Jared Allen gave kudos to Glazer for his improvements last year. Reportedly he kills himself fighting/training with Glazer.

Guess who spent some time with Glazer lately training ?

Ryan Grant. A lot of players are buying into these workouts/training as a way to step up their fitness and improve in areas such as agility...lateral movements....in RB's....shake and baking and making people miss.

I hope it works.

[falco]

Wolf went out and took a big gamble by trading a 1st round pick for a partying burnout at the time.

While I agree about this, you cannot diminish the fact that TT drafted a QB in the first round when we had a future HOF qb at the helm, and many were upset that we didn't make a move to draft an immediate contributor.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Disagree; Rodgers feel to TT and give TT credit for a great pick there

Wolf went out and took a big gamble by trading a 1st round pick for a partying burnout at the time. There wasn't much falling IMO when it was clear Favre was on a crash course toward not a whole lot of good in Atlants. Huge Gamble...many fans, at the time, were not fone of trading a 1st for a past 2nd round draft pick who had no success up to that point.

While I agree that trading a 1st for Favre was a bolder move than drafting Rodgers, I think trading for Favre gets slightly overrated and drafting Rodgers gets slightly underrated. Here's why I think that way. Favre was a top 10 talent,. The main reason he dropped in the draft was because of the car crash his senior year. He was considered a first round pick before that happened, so I think the trade is overrated because people think Wolf gambled on a nobody--when, in fact, Favre had all of the talent/leadership in the world. People were concerned about his character issues. The thing that Wolf did guess right on was that Favre would settle down in tiny Green Bay. He did--although it took several years. The talent was always there.

Rodgers did fall to Green Bay, but the concerns about him were legit. He was a Tedford QB. He had a funny delivery. He wasn't quite as sturdy as you like your QB. There were legit reasons why he fell. Personally, I hated that he fell to us and we drafted him. I said so in the draft thread. I didn't think he'd be any good. I give Thompson credit for either 1) guessing right on what little film he probably watched (considering he may have thought Rodgers wouldn't be there), or 2) scouting a guy that wasn't supposed to be there enough to feel comfortable drafting him. Also, Favre had hinted about retirement, but he was also in the middle of playing GM, so you knew he'd be unhappy with the drafting of a QB. It's hard to go against an icon like Favre.

[Patler]

Rodgers did fall to Green Bay, but the concerns about him were legit. He was a Tedford QB. He had a funny delivery. He wasn't quite as sturdy as you like your QB. There were legit reasons why he fell. Personally, I hated that he fell to us and we drafted him. I said so in the draft thread. I didn't think he'd be any good. I give Thompson credit for either 1) guessing right on what little film he probably watched (considering he may have thought Rodgers wouldn't be there), or 2) scouting a guy that wasn't supposed to be there enough to feel comfortable drafting him. Also, Favre had hinted about retirement, but he was also in the middle of playing GM, so you knew he'd be unhappy with the drafting of a QB. It's hard to go against an icon like Favre.

Well said. It's only in retrospect that picking Rodgers has become a no-brainer for most people. If he fell into TT's lap as some now argue, there would have been wild cheering and glee among the Packer fans at the time, and I sure don't remember it being that way.

The comment about risking antagonizing Favre is excellent, especially with TT being new on the scene. And it did have that effect with Favre. But TT needed to plan for the future, and took a bold step right away.

[Scott Campbell]

Wolf never made a move as bold as trading away Favre for somebody completely unproven.