Rumors: Rodgers may hand off to Westbrook

[MJZiggy]

Rodgers fell to TT as much as Favre did to Wolf. Favre dropped to the 2nd round, came in with no fanfare and made no mark at all in Atlanta for whatever reasons. Rodgers feel in the draft for whatever reasons. Wolf saw something in Favre, and TT saw something in Rodgers that apparently failed to impress others who could have had either player.

They both deserve credit for getting their QBs. Finding a QB is crucial for any GM. Both GMs risked a 1st round pick they could have used for immediate help elsewhere. Both had established pro-bowl QBs on their rosters when they made the moves for another. Neither Favre nor Rodgers was a certainty when reeled in.

Disagree; Rodgers feel to TT and give TT credit for a great pick there

Wolf went out and took a big gamble by trading a 1st round pick for a partying burnout at the time. There wasn't much falling IMO when it was clear Favre was on a crash course toward not a whole lot of good in Atlants. Huge Gamble...many fans, at the time, were not fone of trading a 1st for a past 2nd round draft pick who had no success up to that point.

I believe the Favre decision to be less of a gamble than you think. Wolf wanted Favre from the get go and Favre was picked by Atlanta just before Wolf's turn to pick. Wolf knew the potential that he was getting and that it was possible to drill into his head that if Favre ever wanted to see the field, he'd best shape up or he'd cut him. He probably could have gotten a much better bargain had Atlanta not been aware of how bad Wolf wanted Favre on his team.

B, cut Scott a little slack. I think his point is that he's trying to behave outside the Favre thread.

[Tarlam!]

Ziggy is 100% on the money. It's well documented that Wolf wanted to draft Favre at his previous employer.

What she forgot to point out is that Wolf threw the tape of Favre on TT's desk and asked for an evaluation. In fact, it was one of TT's first duties with his first stint with the Pack. TT was enamoured.

[Bretsky]

Ziggy is 100% on the money. It's well documented that Wolf wanted to draft Favre at his previous employer.

What she forgot to point out is that Wolf threw the tape of Favre on TT's desk and asked for an evaluation. In fact, it was one of TT's first duties with his first stint with the Pack. TT was enamoured.

interesting and thanks for noting; I never knew that

[pbmax]

PB, I only know what I read in the press, obviously, just as we all do. I highly doubt your sources are any different than mine. (I will give you and anyone else here the advantage of actually watching the game. It's still too fast for me to see who did what and when).

I find it revealing that some people get press for their off season workout programmes while others don't. Suddenly, a presser comes up about Grant being at Glazer's place. I make my conclusions based on what I read and what is reported, as do you and Bretsky.

I still don't see anything wrong with Grant. I haven't said a negative thing about him. I just don't believe he does this to be the best. I think it's a job to him.

But that is exactly the point, Tar. The one mention in the press (that I am aware of, if you have seen others, please pass them along) is a mock draft defending a RB pick for the Pack because they believed (unsourced) that the Packers believed Grant needs someone to push him. Other than that, we have only the feeling on this board by some who thought the presence of Green would push Grant to be better. I don't buy that line of reasoning as the Packers have been better at running in the 2nd half of the season since McCarthy took over, not just when Grant has competition.

So to denigrate his commitment, motivation or training based on those two dubious claims seems to be premature.

Now its possible the Packers have concluded this. But if that was the case before midseason in 09, then they wouldn't have waited to sign Green. They probably would have signed someone better, earlier. And no one has produced reporting to that effect yet.

[pbmax]

While I can see how some interpret Grant's second half of the season as a tribute to Green, this statement seems indefensible:

The names I put out there have been doing abnormaly tough training regimes for years, not days. Grant isn't one of them.

How do you know how Ryan Grant has been training? For that matter, how do you know how Woodson or Driver trained? Other than their longevity, do we know how they did it?

Grant came back to training camp looking as in shape and ripped as a player could be the season of Favre-a-palooza. He did that work before the contract and he looked even in better shape in 2009. Now even from looking at them, we can't know how they trained, or how dedicated they were. So how on earth can we know they didn't train hard, like you claim with Grant?

It's been pretty well reported that Drivers regiments are well more intense than the rest over the years. People within the professoin have noted Driver puts himself though Jerry Rice type workouts and have told stories about how Packer players will come over and did Drivers full workout and noted how they were so sore the following days they would never do it again. Freeman was one of them.

But how does that compare to what Grant does? We don't have any basis for comparison unless Free works out with Ryan. The point is, we have little information to base a conclusion on Grant's commitment or work habits.

[Bretsky]

While I can see how some interpret Grant's second half of the season as a tribute to Green, this statement seems indefensible:

The names I put out there have been doing abnormaly tough training regimes for years, not days. Grant isn't one of them.

How do you know how Ryan Grant has been training? For that matter, how do you know how Woodson or Driver trained? Other than their longevity, do we know how they did it?

Grant came back to training camp looking as in shape and ripped as a player could be the season of Favre-a-palooza. He did that work before the contract and he looked even in better shape in 2009. Now even from looking at them, we can't know how they trained, or how dedicated they were. So how on earth can we know they didn't train hard, like you claim with Grant?

It's been pretty well reported that Drivers regiments are well more intense than the rest over the years. People within the professoin have noted Driver puts himself though Jerry Rice type workouts and have told stories about how Packer players will come over and did Drivers full workout and noted how they were so sore the following days they would never do it again. Freeman was one of them.

But how does that compare to what Grant does? We don't have any basis for comparison unless Free works out with Ryan. The point is, we have little information to base a conclusion on Grant's commitment or work habits.

If we are allowed to use media as being credible.....statements like Driver has one of the hardest workout regiments in the NFL says something. Then statements from his teammates about his workout program. And then just noticing how ripped he is in comparion to other players.....that's all secondary evidence that would seem reasonable to use.

I have no idea of Grant is lazy, casual, or a hard worker on offseason.
But the media has never pointed out anything on Grant being GB's hardest worker.

That is all of the information that any of us has and heck if we can't use the media to formulate views seeing none of us are direct witnesses what other source is their to form views ?

[MJZiggy]

Ziggy is 100% on the money. It's well documented that Wolf wanted to draft Favre at his previous employer.

What she forgot to point out is that Wolf threw the tape of Favre on TT's desk and asked for an evaluation. In fact, it was one of TT's first duties with his first stint with the Pack. TT was enamoured.

How could I have forgotten that? Didn't Wolf say having TT scout that tape was his evaluation to decide whether to keep him (TT) back then?

[Tarlam!]

Didn't Wolf say having TT scout that tape was his evaluation to decide whether to keep him (TT) back then?

Is that true? Damned, I didn't know that.

PB, your points are well noted, respected and appreciated. I have seen a few publicatations cite Grant to work hard given the outside impact, but, I don't save anything. I just rely on my memory - I'll never ever be a Patler or Scott Campbell.

At any rate, this is the first mention that I know of that Grant is doing some extra curricula activity and I, as a true blue Packer fan, appluad it. Just like I love Finley and a few others doing boxing.

I think the team wants more than they've achieved. Guys are pushing harder this year, according to what we get to read. I love that. I want them all to want to be the best. I want the draftees to be challenged to even make the team, from #23 to pick #230.

I love being a fan, I really do.

[Fritz]

I think these days working out is a full time job for these guys in the offseason. I suspect most of them workout nearly all the time.

[get louder at lambeau]

I have seen a few publicatations cite Grant to work hard given the outside impact, but, I don't save anything. I just rely on my memory - I'll never ever be a Patler or Scott Campbell.

Here ya go-

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/andrew_lawrence/07/09/grant/index.html

[HarveyWallbangers]

Found this while researching the Thompson scouting Favre angle. I hadn't read this before, but the guy makes some good points.

Right or wrong, it might be how Thompson felt. Others think he should have gone the route the Vikings have with Favre. Maybe they are right. Maybe they are wrong. I guess it all depends on whether the Packers or Vikings win a title before Thompson leaves Green Bay and Favre retires. I do think the other reason Thompson didn't kiss Favre's butt is that he liked ARod and didn't want to risk losing him.

http://www.green-bay-packer.com/2008/08/10/quartback-autopsy-part-1-ted-thompson/

Thompson cleared out the cap mess, and as is most often the case when someone new is put in charge of an operation held together with duct tape, the adhesive gave way and the team fell to the ground, going 4-12. Thompson had seen enough and cleaned house of the coaching staff, sending Mike Sherman and his ice cream bandits far away from Lambeau.

But the thing that remained a constant, before Sherman, after Sherman and before Thompson was Brett Favre. Now maybe playing linebacker for 10 years hard codes an expectation of mental toughness in you. Never being on the glory side of the football or playing a skill position, you feel a little resentment for all those guys on your team that played offense; they got all the big money, the media requests, they were the ones scoring all the tuna. Fuckers. “I bust my ass every year an what do I get? A busted ass. These guys get the honey, the money and the fame” might have been a few of the thoughts Thompson had as a player. Thoughts that may well have carried into his post-playing days, having to work with the egos of stars players.

So when the rumors of Brett Favre retiring started floating in early 2005 and grew in intensity and duration each successive year, maybe Thompson wondered what was wrong with this Favre guy. The pouting and indecision just didn’t compute for a former linebacker, and frankly, it pissed him off. Guy’s got everything but it isn’t enough - he wants a “voice” in personnel decisions, drapes the franchise in a wet woolen blanket with the threat of retirement. Prima donna.

[pbmax]

I have seen a few publicatations cite Grant to work hard given the outside impact, but, I don't save anything. I just rely on my memory - I'll never ever be a Patler or Scott Campbell.

Here ya go-
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ant/index.html

The defense rests!

[pbmax]

Found this while researching the Thompson scouting Favre angle. I hadn't read this before, but the guy makes some good points.

Right or wrong, it might be how Thompson felt. Others think he should have gone the route the Vikings have with Favre. Maybe they are right. Maybe they are wrong. I guess it all depends on whether the Packers or Vikings win a title before Thompson leaves Green Bay and Favre retires. I do think the other reason Thompson didn't kiss Favre's butt is that he liked ARod and didn't want to risk losing him.

http://www.green-bay-packer.com/2008/08/10/quartback-autopsy-part-1-ted-thompson/

Thompson cleared out the cap mess, and as is most often the case when someone new is put in charge of an operation held together with duct tape, the adhesive gave way and the team fell to the ground, going 4-12. Thompson had seen enough and cleaned house of the coaching staff, sending Mike Sherman and his ice cream bandits far away from Lambeau.

But the thing that remained a constant, before Sherman, after Sherman and before Thompson was Brett Favre. Now maybe playing linebacker for 10 years hard codes an expectation of mental toughness in you. Never being on the glory side of the football or playing a skill position, you feel a little resentment for all those guys on your team that played offense; they got all the big money, the media requests, they were the ones scoring all the tuna. Fuckers. “I bust my ass every year an what do I get? A busted ass. These guys get the honey, the money and the fame” might have been a few of the thoughts Thompson had as a player. Thoughts that may well have carried into his post-playing days, having to work with the egos of stars players.

So when the rumors of Brett Favre retiring started floating in early 2005 and grew in intensity and duration each successive year, maybe Thompson wondered what was wrong with this Favre guy. The pouting and indecision just didn’t compute for a former linebacker, and frankly, it pissed him off. Guy’s got everything but it isn’t enough - he wants a “voice” in personnel decisions, drapes the franchise in a wet woolen blanket with the threat of retirement. Prima donna.

Having a backup plan would tend to make one braver to fold the tent on the current plan. Sherman did not have a Plan B, nor had Holmgren once Brunell left.

But this article reads like a fever dream. If Thompson is really this emotionally clouded, I can't see how he has had much success. Parcells, maybe, or Schottenheimer. I highly doubt its veracity for Thompson. The retire/unretire indecision was nothing really new (except for the publicity) and as others have pointed out (Christl), Thompson had seen or heard them play out before. Ruettgers, etc. Its a power play, as long as you know the team wants you, you can just bide your time. Thompson did play this the patient way for three years.

BTW, I think the Favre tape was Thompson's audition, not final test. Six months after evaluating that tape, he got a permanent gig. I think the Favre tape was the first thing he was asked to look at after Reinfeldt recommended him.

[Guiness]

Thompson cleared out the cap mess, and as is most often the case when someone new is put in charge of an operation held together with duct tape, the adhesive gave way and the team fell to the ground, going 4-12. Thompson had seen enough and cleaned house of the coaching staff, sending Mike Sherman and his ice cream bandits far away from Lambeau.

Kind of OT to this subject, but he gave Sherman an extension before running him off. I never understood that.

Meh. Maybe it was smart, gave Sherman a chance to succeed. If he hadn't extended him, he would've been a lame duck coach and had no shot at all.

[Joemailman]

Found this while researching the Thompson scouting Favre angle. I hadn't read this before, but the guy makes some good points.

Right or wrong, it might be how Thompson felt. Others think he should have gone the route the Vikings have with Favre. Maybe they are right. Maybe they are wrong. I guess it all depends on whether the Packers or Vikings win a title before Thompson leaves Green Bay and Favre retires. I do think the other reason Thompson didn't kiss Favre's butt is that he liked ARod and didn't want to risk losing him.

http://www.green-bay-packer.com/2008/08/10/quartback-autopsy-part-1-ted-thompson/

Thompson cleared out the cap mess, and as is most often the case when someone new is put in charge of an operation held together with duct tape, the adhesive gave way and the team fell to the ground, going 4-12. Thompson had seen enough and cleaned house of the coaching staff, sending Mike Sherman and his ice cream bandits far away from Lambeau.

But the thing that remained a constant, before Sherman, after Sherman and before Thompson was Brett Favre. Now maybe playing linebacker for 10 years hard codes an expectation of mental toughness in you. Never being on the glory side of the football or playing a skill position, you feel a little resentment for all those guys on your team that played offense; they got all the big money, the media requests, they were the ones scoring all the tuna. Fuckers. “I bust my ass every year an what do I get? A busted ass. These guys get the honey, the money and the fame” might have been a few of the thoughts Thompson had as a player. Thoughts that may well have carried into his post-playing days, having to work with the egos of stars players.

So when the rumors of Brett Favre retiring started floating in early 2005 and grew in intensity and duration each successive year, maybe Thompson wondered what was wrong with this Favre guy. The pouting and indecision just didn’t compute for a former linebacker, and frankly, it pissed him off. Guy’s got everything but it isn’t enough - he wants a “voice” in personnel decisions, drapes the franchise in a wet woolen blanket with the threat of retirement. Prima donna.

I think McCarthy's role in this is often overlooked. I think McCarthy probably made the decision to go with Arod, and Thompson supported the decision.