Rumors: Rodgers may hand off to Westbrook

[Patler]

What we know about Grant is that he isn't self motivated. So far, he has been motivated by the big payday, the incentives in his contract and most recently, by the addition of Green.

We know this? How?
I know of no cause and effect certainty for any of that, especially for the addition of Green.

I have a hard time saying a guy isn't self motivated when he hangs around as a PS/IR member for a couple years with one team and fights his way up from the bottom of the roster on another to become a starter.

A player who was not drafted becomes a starter and he isn't self-motivated? Who forced him into it?

If you followed his career at ND, they were always trying to replace him, first with one player, than with another. He had nagging injuries. They never seemed to want him as their back. He made them play him, just as he did in Green Bay. He graduated in four years with a double major. He had opportunity after opportunity in college and for three years as a pro to say heck with it. No one was motivating him to do all that. It was all from within him, his own desire to get where he has gotten.

Ryan Grant does not have immense talent. He's not a big bruiser, he's not overly fast. He's not real shifty. Face it, nothing about him stood out enough for him to even get drafted. He probably gets more from what he has than many players in the NFL. That, in my mind, is exactly what self-motivation is all about.

[MJZiggy]

Patlerized.

[pbmax]

What we know about Grant is that he isn't self motivated. So far, he has been motivated by the big payday, the incentives in his contract and most recently, by the addition of Green.

We know this? How?
I know of no cause and effect certainty for any of that, especially for the addition of Green.

I have a hard time saying a guy isn't self motivated when he hangs around as a PS/IR member for a couple years with one team and fights his way up from the bottom of the roster on another to become a starter.

A player who was not drafted becomes a starter and he isn't self-motivated? Who forced him into it?

If you followed his career at ND, they were always trying to replace him, first with one player, than with another. He had nagging injuries. They never seemed to want him as their back. He made them play him, just as he did in Green Bay. He graduated in four years with a double major. He had opportunity after opportunity in college and for three years as a pro to say heck with it. No one was motivating him to do all that. It was all from within him, his own desire to get where he has gotten.

Ryan Grant does not have immense talent. He's not a big bruiser, he's not overly fast. He's not real shifty. Face it, nothing about him stood out enough for him to even get drafted. He probably gets more from what he has than many players in the NFL. That, in my mind, is exactly what self-motivation is all about.

He is also currently doing MMA training with Jay Glazer and Randy Coture.

http://www.packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?t=20394

[Patler]

I also think the Mike McCarthy signing is greatly underestimated. McCarthy wasn't on anyone's radar when Thompson picked him up, and I think he deserves more credit as a coach than most on here give.

Thompson has clearly had some bad picks, but every GM does. I think Wolf was great, but Thompson is better.

Or, you could argue TT passed up Sean Peyton who is the reigning World Champion....

Wolf had some terrible picks, too. That Jamaal Reynolds pick was on his shift.

Unless the Pack wins a SB, Wolf will always be considered the better, I think.

But is that really justified? As they say, even a blind squirrel....
Now, I'm not saying Wolf was the equivalent of a blind squirrel, but on the negative side for Wolf:

He had Favre all those years and managed just one SB win and just two appearances. Many GMs with elite QBs have done much better than that. For me, the gloss of that one win is very much tarnished by not getting more out of the Favre years than he did. He had a lot of foundation work done for a semi-dynasty, but managed to get very little out of it.

He hired Ray Rhodes.

He recommended Sherman to be the GM.

[Patler]

Thompson > Wolf = True

don't agree at all

win a title and then come back to make the argument

some will say Wolf won in a different era

All of the GM's were playing under the same rules as Wolf

I understand the importance of a title, but I think too much is made of that for Wolf. I think it is a huge negative for Wolf that he won ONLY one title while having a QB as talented as Favre. Getting to only two with Favre is also a negative, in my opinion.

The build up to '96 was long, but reasonable, but the fall was sudden and never recovered from, though Wolf himself abandoned ship shortly thereafter. I have this inkling of a feeling that his sudden and unexpected retirement had a bit of a motivation from his desire to retain his image. Did he maybe realize the Packers were not going to get back to legitimate SB contention anytime soon, and he did not want to be associated with it?

I respect Wolf for what he did, but the pedestal I put him on is not real tall. TT's pedestal is under construction. Whether it is ever installed, and the final dimensions are yet to be determined.

[Brandon494]

TT is good but he is not quite as good as Wolf.

Favre > Rodgers
R. White > Woodson
Bulter > Collins

[Patler]

I also think Thompson deserves extra credit for taking a competitive but aging team and re-building it; especially in having to transition from HOF QB to possible future HOF QB.

How successful were the Packers before Ron Wolf arrived ?

I think the talent inherited by Wolf was as good or better than the talent inherited by Thompson. Sharpe, Butler, Paup, Cecil, Ruettgers, Majkowski, Holland, Bennett, Harris, Jacke, Moran, Hallstrom etc. were all there before Wolf arrived. There was a lot of young talent that Infante had not gotten much out of. Not saying they were all great players, but some were.

TT inherited a few too, but most were entering the second halves of their careers. TT inherited older players that would have to be replaced, Wolf inherited younger players with which he could build.

Wolf had to rebuild an image and attitude. No small project. But Wolf had a fair number of young players to work with. I think TT had more of a roster re-building project.

[Patler]

I also think Thompson deserves extra credit for taking a competitive but aging team and re-building it; especially in having to transition from HOF QB to possible future HOF QB.

How successful were the Packers before Ron Wolf arrived ?

You are missing my point. Obviously the team wolf inherited was much worse.

I don't think it was, from a roster perspective.

[Fritz]

Thompson > Wolf = True

don't agree at all

win a title and then come back to make the argument

some will say Wolf won in a different era

All of the GM's were playing under the same rules as Wolf

I understand the importance of a title, but I think too much is made of that for Wolf. I think it is a huge negative for Wolf that he won ONLY one title while having a QB as talented as Favre. Getting to only two with Favre is also a negative, in my opinion.

The build up to '96 was long, but reasonable, but the fall was sudden and never recovered from, though Wolf himself abandoned ship shortly thereafter. I have this inkling of a feeling that his sudden and unexpected retirement had a bit of a motivation from his desire to retain his image. Did he maybe realize the Packers were not going to get back to legitimate SB contention anytime soon, and he did not want to be associated with it?

I respect Wolf for what he did, but the pedestal I put him on is not real tall. TT's pedestal is under construction. Whether it is ever installed, and the final dimensions are yet to be determined.

It was a fast fall. After the Super Bowl there was the Denver debacle - it was complete anguish to watch that defense get shredded so easily. When Wolf made his infamous "fart in the wind" comment, my sense was that he was not looking to the future any more. After all, had they gone back a third year in a row or even one year after and won, all would have been fine.

But I think Holmgren's impending departure damaged the entire organization badly. It was not so much that he was going to leave - it was clear that he wanted to run the whole show - it was that Wolf and Holmgren could not come to an agreement that would allow Holmgren to step in once Wolf left, which was not too far away, and two, that it was abundantly clear Holmgren was leaving through the final third or so of that season. It made it difficult for everyone to focus on football. And the loss to San Fran was the proverbial stake in the heart to that team.

I'll give Wolf a break on the Rhodes hire - he dumped his mistake quickly - but I fault him for giving so much authority up to Sherman so quickly - and Sherman was untested as a coach, much less as a GM, at that time.

Finally, there was the mess that was the Jamaal Reynolds/Robert Ferguson draft. Wolf left the organization with a team that had some veteran parts in place (the offensive line, Favre, Driver) but in other places was clearly heading south.

[DonHutson]

He had Favre all those years and managed just one SB win and just two appearances. Many GMs with elite QBs have done much better than that.

But then Wolf had Favre only because he went out and got him. Ted got his franchise QB, too. But there was a huge element of pure dumb luck to Rodgers falling that far. I give Ted all the credit in world for pulling the trigger, but Rodgers never should've been there.

The team Wolf put together was certainly good enough to win two titles in a row. I don't think you can pin that Bronco loss on personnel. You can always have more good players, but that team was good enough.

I would also give Wolf bonus points because he engineered a total 180 on the perception surrounding Green Bay at the time (the start of FA) when it mattered most. Ted inherited a team that was already considered one of the class acts in the NFL, because of the work that guys like Wolf and Bob Harlan did.

I guess my point is that it's difficult to assign credit and blame with any degree of accuracy in terms of wins and losses and whether a player pans out or busts. But the change in attitude in and toward Green Bay is a tangible thing that Wolf can clearly hang his hat on.

[Fritz]

He had Favre all those years and managed just one SB win and just two appearances. Many GMs with elite QBs have done much better than that.

But then Wolf had Favre only because he went out and got him. Ted got his franchise QB, too. But there was a huge element of pure dumb luck to Rodgers falling that far. I give Ted all the credit in world for pulling the trigger, but Rodgers never should've been there.

The team Wolf put together was certainly good enough to win two titles in a row. I don't think you can pin that Bronco loss on personnel. You can always have more good players, but that team was good enough.

I would also give Wolf bonus points because he engineered a total 180 on the perception surrounding Green Bay at the time (the start of FA) when it mattered most. Ted inherited a team that was already considered one of the class acts in the NFL, because of the work that guys like Wolf and Bob Harlan did.

I guess my point is that it's difficult to assign credit and blame with any degree of accuracy in terms of wins and losses and whether a player pans out or busts. But the change in attitude in and toward Green Bay is a tangible thing that Wolf can clearly hang his hat on.

DH, I don't know that I disagree with the bold-faced line above. But what do you think did happen that allowed Denver to so badly whip the Green Bay defense? It was a complete beat down.

[CaptainKickass]

Speaking of Defense.....

I can only say 2 words regarding the Wolf/Holmgren era that have yet to be chewed on in this particular thread:

Fritz Shurmur.

[Patler]

Rodgers fell to TT as much as Favre did to Wolf. Favre dropped to the 2nd round, came in with no fanfare and made no mark at all in Atlanta for whatever reasons. Rodgers feel in the draft for whatever reasons. Wolf saw something in Favre, and TT saw something in Rodgers that apparently failed to impress others who could have had either player.

They both deserve credit for getting their QBs. Finding a QB is crucial for any GM. Both GMs risked a 1st round pick they could have used for immediate help elsewhere. Both had established pro-bowl QBs on their rosters when they made the moves for another. Neither Favre nor Rodgers was a certainty when reeled in.

[falco]

They both deserve credit for getting their QBs.

+1

[falco]

I don't think it was, from a roster perspective.

Point taken.