LeRoy: Brett Better Than Aaron

[Deputy Nutz]

ya kinda knew this thread wasn't going to end well....

And I hadn't even posted yet.

[Freak Out]

Nice job, smuggler. I was surprised to see Bert's win-loss column (only started rooting for the Pack in '02), especially in the first year. Rodgers' 1st year as a starter was way down, plus he missed 2 1/2 contests over the last 2 seasons.

Despite this, I would want my QB to be named Rodgers. Loved Bert when he dressed in Green and Gold, hate him for playing against the Green and Gold. Philosophers maintain there's a fine line between love and hate!

Freaking 02? Johnny come lately. You don't even have a dog in this fight Tar.

[pbmax]

Anyone else hear Marshall Faulk say Aaron Rodgers is not a top 5 or elite level QB...because "Matt Flynn did what Aaron Rodgers can do"

Sure, and by that logic, Brees is also not top 5 or elite, since Flynn played at least as well as Brees against the same Detroit secondary.

To a certain extent, I give Faulk a pass on this, at least long term, because if you are going to do Sports Talk on NFLN all day, somebody has to argue about something. Otherwise its Skip Bayless barking up every tree he sees.

[Deputy Nutz]

But you can compare interceptions and Rodgers' ball security make him the better QB IMO.

I wonder how secure Rodgers would have been if he would have had to start 13 games his first year, and 16 games pluse 2 playoff games his second year? Favre threw over 32 picks his first two years with Green Bay Rodgers sat on the bench for his first 3 years in Green Bay watching Favre, learning the right things to do with the football and the wrong things to do with the football. He also realized that he didn't have the supreme ability and talent it took to play at the highest level, and he reinvented himself under the tutilage of McCarthy. Rodgers has a strong arm, but he doesn't have the natural gifts of Brett Favre or John Elway so he he understood he couldn't throw the ball through 2 defenders. It is a hard thing to learn and what makes Rodgers special is that he was able to learn it.

[Deputy Nutz]

He had some good weapons over the years...but never the talent that AR currently has as a whole. Not even close. As mentioned, Billy Schroeder led the team in receiving once. Favre had 1 or 2 good guys around him. AR has 5 really good WR and one of the more talented TE right now.

plus are you telling me that the game is really the same today as it was in the mid 90's? because QB's are owning the NFL at a rate never seen in its history. Favre's 2009 season is a perfect example of how the rules have really changed the game for the QB. Not many QB's have come out and had a season like he did for the Vikes that yr at that age. His best QB rating ever at the very end of his career? GTFO. A Favre playing in his prime today would be the best QB in football.

Favre statistically had a better 2009, at the end of his career, than AR had last yr or in 2009. In the 90's it was rare to see a QB finish w/ a 100 rating, much less the ratings guys are putting up today.

Its too bad Sharpe got hurt because he and Favre would have been unstoppable.

but nice try at grasping at straws. It would be nice to see some intelligence when it comes to Favre instead of irrational emotional BS revisionist thinking.

So far AR has stepped in and there has been absolutely zero drop off in the QB play we had grown accustomed to the previous 16 years. That's what really should be the focus as we sit here and witness AR write his own legacy.

It kinda pisses me off to see people want to start discounting the Favre era and using AR to rip on him. SO what Favre left. get over it nancy. its a business. shit happens. it doesn't change what he brought to this team when he was here. it was a different game then, and if you can't see that when you're doing your comparison then IDK what to tell ya.

It is very rare to find any intelligence when it comes to Favre and Packer fan. Favre was the "golden boy" for Green Bay Packer fans. They were able to watch Favre and cheer and shed tears for him, and shake their head in amazement when he would make plays thought to be impossible, they would stomp their feet and and cuss him out for throwing that game ending pick, but afterwards, Favre would give ya that "awe shucks" smirk of a boy caught with his hand in the cookie jar and all would be forgiven, for the moment. When he left and then went to the Vikings Packer fans were disowned by their "Golden Boy". They were hurt and they can't forgive because it is sport. They now feel righted because Rodgers is exceeding all expectations, they are free to preach their spite and their hatered for Favre because they all feel vindicated. Their memories are wiped clean of the Packers of the 1990s and the 2000s, their feelings of hero worship erased of Brett Favre. Brett Favre, is Packer fan's fallen angel.

[pbmax]

I wonder how secure Rodgers would have been if he would have had to start 13 games his first year, and 16 games pluse 2 playoff games his second year? Favre threw over 32 picks his first two years with Green Bay Rodgers sat on the bench for his first 3 years in Green Bay watching Favre, learning the right things to do with the football and the wrong things to do with the football. He also realized that he didn't have the supreme ability and talent it took to play at the highest level, and he reinvented himself under the tutilage of McCarthy. Rodgers has a strong arm, but he doesn't have the natural gifts of Brett Favre or John Elway so he he understood he couldn't throw the ball through 2 defenders. It is a hard thing to learn and what makes Rodgers special is that he was able to learn it.

It has been written several times that Rodgers hated throwing picks long before he met Lorenzo, so he did not pick up the anti-habit from sitting on the bench and watching.

And McGinn has written that he did remake his body and attitude after his second year, but as a first round grade/first round pick (Favre was a 1/2 round grade, 2nd round pick) I doubt he suffers much in physical comparison to Favre. Both were 6' 2" and 220 with the same size hands. McGinn did note that someone he talked to considered that bad weight for Rodgers.

Favre was as tough as it gets, but a good percentage of that was mule-headed stubbornness. I think the fact that he gave up on this in the middle of his career points to the fact that his ultra-physical style of play was unsustainable, gifts or no.

[Fritz]

Great post Fritz. About time you do something besides cringe.

Really though the numbers are damn close and still leaves me thinking rings will be the deciding factor.

That line makes me cringe.

[Deputy Nutz]

I've really tried to stay out of the Favre/Rodgers battle. Very hard to compare the 2 IMO. I grew up loving Favre, and I pretty much love Rodgers as much as I once loved Favre. The biggest thing that is hard for some people is the fact the Favre was as much a "caricature" as he was an athlete for GB. He would do something in a game and people would laugh and fall more in love with him because he was just having fun and so on. Favre did some amazing things, no question, but there were many times he would make mistakes early in his career, but had an amazing defense that could make up for his mistakes. Later in his career that fact showed it's ugly face a lot. Granted he had some great years without a very good defense though. He also put up some crazy numbers without the type of talent Rodgers has right now. You can look and see Sterling Sharpe, Robert Brooks, antonio Freeman, Donald Driver...but none of them really played together at the same time. Sterling was with Brooks, but Brooks wasn't really used...then Brooks took over, and Freeman was the lesser used, than Freeman took ove and Driver was the lesser used...GB has had a nice run of #1 recievers, but never had likely 4 #1 guys on the team at one time, PLUS a pretty good TE in Finley. I mean come on, Bill Schroeder led the team as a receiver one season. The Packers running game for many years early in Favre's career were screens and dump off passes.

Now on the flip side, Rodgers is a Quarterbacks Quarterback. I would assume Rodgers could develop into a very good coach some day given his attention to detail. If Rodgers didn't walk into a situation that had Driver and Jennings year 1, it could have been a bad start for him. but Thompson has loaded this team with weapons, and doesn't care if we have 6 WR's to compete for 5 spots as long as the best 5 make it...at any position. I love Rodgers, we have to credit some of his success to the talent that's been placed around him. BUT...I don't think Brett Favre could have made some of the throws that Aaron Rodgers has made in the past year. He's been fun to watch, and I hope we can get some OL talent around him to keep him upright for many years. How many teams can say they had 2 HOF QB's play back to back and it lasted potentially 30 years? Bear fans will hate us.

How many QBs threw for over 4000 yards this year? how many threw for over 5000 yards? 5 qbs throwing for over 30 tds and 3 throwing for over 40.

Favre has never had the offensive fire power on one team that is currently built around Rodgers. I would say the closest was 2002 with Driver, Walker, Ferguson, Green, Wesley Walls.

If Favre had his crew completely healthy for 1996 Then I would argue that 1996 was comparable to 2011. Losing Freeman to a broken arm, and Brooks for the whole season really hurt the productivity of the offense, bringing in Rison was a great band aide for the playoffs.

[Deputy Nutz]

It has been written several times that Rodgers hated throwing picks long before he met Lorenzo, so he did not pick up the anti-habit from sitting on the bench and watching. Hating throwing picks and throwing them are two different things. Rodgers has the ability now to make plays, but how many sacks would he take his first two years as a starter because he refused to get rid of the ball? He didn't have the ability to make plays his first two years, he didn't want to force the ball, and he didn't have the understanding of the offense to go through his reads fast enough. Now it is a different story, Rodgers is surgical with the offense.
And McGinn has written that he did remake his body and attitude after his second year, but as a first round grade/first round pick (Favre was a 1/2 round grade, 2nd round pick) I doubt he suffers much in physical comparison to Favre. Both were 6' 2" and 220 with the same size hands. McGinn did note that someone he talked to considered that bad weight for Rodgers. This really does nothing to prove that. Favre was a better athlete then Rodgers, better arm, better legs. Rodgers slipped in the draft because he was a mechanical robot, with slow feet. He also fell because teams didn't need a qb. Favre was a little known prospect from Southern Miss that carried all the intangibles that great sports fiction is written on, He didn't have the big name and was drafted 9 spots lower than Rodgers

Favre was as tough as it gets, but a good percentage of that was mule-headed stubbornness. I think the fact that he gave up on this in the middle of his career points to the fact that his ultra-physical style of play was unsustainable, gifts or no.

Playing with a broken thumb and playing great and making the playoffs, call you what you want, but I call it selling out for your team. Going out on a frozen field for a worthless game at 41 years of age and getting mauled was being mule-headed stubborn.

[Deputy Nutz]

geezus. I realize Favre pissed a lot of fans off, but come on man!

1. the lg has already changed a great deal from Favre's hey day. It's a much more pass oriented lg...not to mention all the rules recently put into place to help the QB and offenses.

2. Favre was an absolute stud in his prime. He did things NOBODY else could do back there.

3. AR is a much more calculated and safer QB. Right now AR is playing as good or better than Favre for a 20+ game stretch. But again, the lg is a lot different than it was, AR has a sick supporting cast, and its still a small sample size.

Lets see what happens this yr and for the next several before we crown AR as the better QB. It's waaaay to early to be making that call.

I love me some AR for many many reasons which include how awesomely he has handled the transition and having to follow a legend. Other than Montana and Young, there is no other story like AR's and what he's done. Nobody that I can recall has came into the lg unestablished and taken over for a HOF QB and done what AR has done. I love it. But its a little too early to convince me he's better than Favre. He's still got a ways to go before you can seriously have that discussion.



The ONE great thing about this is AR already has a chip on his shoulder and maybe this just adds to it. This just dumps more gas on his fire and desire to shut up everyone. So I'll thank Butler in advance.

This is a great post. 100% correct.

[Deputy Nutz]

I would have loved to see how Favre would have developed if Holmgren had stayed. Ray Rhodes year really hurt Favre's growth as a QB since he just let him go...which is funny since McCarthy was his QB coach that year. But there is no doubt that Favre took a huge step back with Rhodes, then Sherman brought him back in, but towards the end was doing the same thing in letting the old gun slinger be the gun slinger. Holmgren would let him sling it, but under his direction. And if he wandered off his direction, Holmgren would call him on it and keep him accountable. Many people later on would not hold Favre accountable. I still remember coming back from a game in 2004, granted, not a good team, but Favre was HORRIBLE in that game, and truly was the reason GB lost that day (sorry I don't remember who against, not the point)...but on the ride home, the post game guys were very up front about Favre being the downfall that day, and some lady called him yelling at the post game guys for saying anything bad about Favre....why? When Rodgers had bad days I'll say bad about him. BUT, Rodgers is very much accountable about himself, maybe more than needed...Favre would very rarely stand up and say this was all on me.

This is just rambling BS. Listen to the radio, listen to people talk about Rodgers, he is the new hero in Green Bay and he like Favre in the past can do no wrong. It is a cycle bro, fans are "what are doing for me lately" and people are willing to fight if you go against Rodgers, or the Packers.

[Deputy Nutz]

Well, no matter what Favre did in his career by 2007 he just wasn't going to work out for us. You can't have your starting QB struggle in the cold when your team is in Wisconsin. This is most likely why MM and company were more than ready to give the reigns to Airin' and didn't think twice about trading Favre to NY.

It was one of the coldest game ever played, and it was played at night, and it completely shut down the Packers runnning game and played hell with Al Harris's coverage on Plaxico Burress, but it was completely Favre's fault, it is just easier to remember it that way instead of looking at the entire game. MM and Thompson didn't ship Favre out, if they were happy to get rid of Favre they would have traded him when he asked to be traded. They sat on him and when he stood up to them he became a villian, and then they shipped him to New York. Favre retired, I know and it forced McCarthy and Thompson to move on to Rodgers, if they were so sold on Rodgers though, why were they willing to meet with Favre in May of '08 to talk about Favre coming back to the Packers?

[Deputy Nutz]

Yeah, man...you're real cool. Dumb? It's my opinion...asshole.

Well apparently he thought your opinion was dumb. Your opinion is that he is an asshole. I just found it interesting that you took the time to edit this post and still called him an asshole.

[Deputy Nutz]

I believe I once heard that the playoff loss in the cold was a reason M3 was ready to move on.

Wrong, but nice attempt.

[Deputy Nutz]

How to make friends and influence people, 4Glory? What are you, 15 years old?

I think people that defend a QB that purposely shat on his old teamates and fans after being worshipped for 16 years is as dumb as a box of rocks, but they're entitled to do so without me labelling them as such.

I prefer to focus on the pathic argumentation they bring forward rather than question their intelligence or obvious lack of it. But that's just me.

Your opinion stated above is filled with ridiculous stupidity. moving forward please impress us all with your legendary opinions on the Packers lore of the 1990s.