Scott Motherf***ing Tolzien

[KYPack]

I hope when Rodgers comes back that they keep all three QB's. Depth is needed there.

Backup QB can be a tricky business. You want someone who is good enough to hold down the fort for a few games, if needed, but not be so good that he's going to eventually leave. I was OK with Green Bay taking a flyer on Graham Harrell back in 2010 because we already had Flynn as a solid backup. Once Flynn left for free agency after 2011, the Packers should have brought in whatever veteran was available at the time as competition to push Harrell and see if he was worth the roster spot, which I feel he kind of received by default after Flynn left because he knew the system and he came cheap. Bringing in B.J. Coleman from the 2012 draft was not adequate competition to push Harrell. In 2012 they could have signed someone like Kyle Orton to be the backup; problem solved, although they are probably never going to pay 2 mill per year for a backup like Dallas did. There were other guys out there too like Drew Stanton, Kellen Clemens (former 2nd round pick).

If Tolzien works out well, then TT will have acquitted himself for the uncertain situation created by having Harrell and Coleman as the backups. You certainly hope your backup is already on the roster and established when you start a season. If Tolzien can establish himself, TT may have pulled a rabbit out of the hat. Go kid!

+ 1 & repped.

if you can get a vet, he operates as a solid buffer that no QB coach can provide.

We should have got somebody like that when Harrell demonstrated his infamous "handoff from hell" last season.

[Smeefers]

Is it though? That was my question.

Sure, there's a run game now. Personnel - top 2 pass catchers that fateful day vs Detroit were Nelson and Jones...and Kuhn had a couple of catches.

Not saying it would be a good idea. It probably isn't, just wondering how much consideration it was given, and how much it might say about Flynn being 'perfectly healthy'.

I say it is. The addition of Lacy and MM's commitment to the run has drastically altered how even Aaron Rodgers called the game. Flynn wouldn't be stepping back into the same old same old. Jones has still been hampered by his injury and has only been playing 40% of the snaps or so. How much chemistry does Flynn have with quarless, miles white, bostick, lacy, or Boykin? These are all contributors to the offense now.

[woodbuck27]

I hope when Rodgers comes back that they keep all three QB's. Depth is needed there.

Backup QB can be a tricky business. You want someone who is good enough to hold down the fort for a few games, if needed, but not be so good that he's going to eventually leave. I was OK with Green Bay taking a flyer on Graham Harrell back in 2010 because we already had Flynn as a solid backup. Once Flynn left for free agency after 2011, the Packers should have brought in whatever veteran was available at the time as competition to push Harrell and see if he was worth the roster spot. I feel like Harrell kind of received that spot by default after Flynn left because he knew the system and he came cheap. Bringing in B.J. Coleman from the 2012 draft was not adequate competition to push Harrell. In 2012 they could have signed someone like Kyle Orton to be the backup; problem solved, although they are probably never going to pay 2 mill per year for a backup like Dallas did for three years. There were other guys out there too like Drew Stanton, Kellen Clemens (former 2nd round pick), Brian Hoyer, who would have all done fine in the backup role. You just have to get your competition in for the entire offseason training program and through camp, not signing them off the street at the start of the season.

If Tolzien works out well, then TT will have acquitted himself for the uncertain situation created by having Harrell and Coleman as the backups in the first place. The Packer brass needed to push themselves harder to know if Harrell (or Coleman in less time) was a suitable backup, or not. They hesitated. You certainly hope your backup is already on the roster and established when you start a season. If Tolzien can establish himself, TT may have pulled a rabbit out of the hat. I'm pulling for the kid!

An excellent post.

[Pugger]

I hope when Rodgers comes back that they keep all three QB's. Depth is needed there.

Backup QB can be a tricky business. You want someone who is good enough to hold down the fort for a few games, if needed, but not be so good that he's going to eventually leave. I was OK with Green Bay taking a flyer on Graham Harrell back in 2010 because we already had Flynn as a solid backup. Once Flynn left for free agency after 2011, the Packers should have brought in whatever veteran was available at the time as competition to push Harrell and see if he was worth the roster spot. I feel like Harrell kind of received that spot by default after Flynn left because he knew the system and he came cheap. Bringing in B.J. Coleman from the 2012 draft was not adequate competition to push Harrell. In 2012 they could have signed someone like Kyle Orton to be the backup; problem solved, although they are probably never going to pay 2 mill per year for a backup like Dallas did for three years. There were other guys out there too like Drew Stanton, Kellen Clemens (former 2nd round pick), Brian Hoyer, who would have all done fine in the backup role. You just have to get your competition in for the entire offseason training program and through camp, not signing them off the street at the start of the season.

If Tolzien works out well, then TT will have acquitted himself for the uncertain situation created by having Harrell and Coleman as the backups in the first place. The Packer brass needed to push themselves harder to know if Harrell (or Coleman in less time) was a suitable backup, or not. They hesitated. You certainly hope your backup is already on the roster and established when you start a season. If Tolzien can establish himself, TT may have pulled a rabbit out of the hat. I'm pulling for the kid!

If Tolzien is as good as I think he could be as our long term backup for Rodgers TT and MM will be fortunate indeed. I blame both of them - and especially MM - sticking with Harrell as long as we did. Because they thought Harrell (and/or Coleman) would develop into a viable NFL QB we were in a real bind when it became obvious neither of them could/did.

[pbmax]

+ 1 & repped.

if you can get a vet, he operates as a solid buffer that no QB coach can provide.

We should have got somebody like that when Harrell demonstrated his infamous "handoff from hell" last season.

The problem is that if the developmental guy shows enough (Flynn, Hasselback) he is going to get poached if he isn't on the regular roster.

It would mean a tight fit somewhere if they keep 3 QBs on the 53. If Tolzien was still on the PS, then three QBs is a no-brainer.

Even if eligible, no way does Tolzien survive a waiver back to the PS without an offer from somewhere.

[pbmax]

I say it is. The addition of Lacy and MM's commitment to the run has drastically altered how even Aaron Rodgers called the game. Flynn wouldn't be stepping back into the same old same old. Jones has still been hampered by his injury and has only been playing 40% of the snaps or so. How much chemistry does Flynn have with quarless, miles white, bostick, lacy, or Boykin? These are all contributors to the offense now.

Yes, the Packers have said the pass game is not much different but the run calls are quite different. It was changed in the off-season when M3 was looking to start Harris and its kept changing with Lacy.

[woodbuck27]

http://www.packers.com/news-and-even...ber2013_131115The brighter the lights, the harder Scott Tolzien works

Posted Nov 13, 2013

BY Mike Spofford


GREEN BAY—" Every time Mike McCarthy has discussed Scott Tolzien since the former University of Wisconsin quarterback arrived in Green Bay, the head coach’s compliments have always included the words “work ethic.”

As Tolzien gets ready for his first NFL start this week, his own words on Wednesday illustrate that McCarthy hasn’t been paying him simple lip service or coachspeak. "

Please CLICK on the LINK for the entire story.

GO PACK GO !

[Patler]

Matt Flynn could be the long term answer as a backup, for several reasons:

Tolzien will still be looking for a shot at being a starter. He will not be content to hang out behind Rodgers indefinitely.

Flynn had a shot, and it didn't go real well. But, he has made good money the last couple years, enough to set himself up for life. A permanent gig as backup to Rodgers at close to a million per year for as long as he can milk it, with the fun, notoriety and rewards that come from being a playoff contender each year might sound pretty good to him when the alternative might be nothing more than a minimum salary somewhere else.

Doug Pederson left for a 2 year shot at starting in Philadelphia and then Cleveland before realizing that coming back to GB for a vet minimum salary is still a pretty good deal if you can secure it for a solid block of years.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Another reason Flynn could be a long-term backup here: He's done poorly everyplace else he's gone. As Patler said, there's a lot worse places to go than GB and be the backup.

I agree with others that Rodgers injury means we now have 3 QBs on the roster going forward. TT and MM gambled on ARods health and got burned. I also wouldn't be surprised if either Flynn or Tolzien (assuming both are around next year) got more practice time with the 1s during the season just to be sure they have a better foundation to come into a game.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I was impressed with Ryan Fitzpatrick's play as a backup for Tennessee last night.

There are some backups around the league with talent.

I don't see Tolzien as being a franchise QB, he'll be a journeyman. Just staying in the league as a #2 would be an accomplishment.

There are probably about 20 franchise QBs total around the league. The rest of the starters are journeyman that teams are dreaming of replacing.

[red]

I was impressed with Ryan Fitzpatrick's play as a backup for Tennessee last night.

There are some backups around the league with talent.

I don't see Tolzien as being a franchise QB, he'll be a journeyman. Just staying in the league as a #2 would be an accomplishment.

There are probably about 20 franchise QBs total around the league. The rest of the starters are journeyman that teams are dreaming of replacing.

before he won the #2 and then #1 job for us by default, he was having a hard time making it in the nfl as a #3

[Guiness]

I was impressed with Ryan Fitzpatrick's play as a backup for Tennessee last night.

There are some backups around the league with talent.

I don't see Tolzien as being a franchise QB, he'll be a journeyman. Just staying in the league as a #2 would be an accomplishment.

There are probably about 20 franchise QBs total around the league. The rest of the starters are journeyman that teams are dreaming of replacing.

I think 20's a reach for the number of franchise QBs. I can think of a dozen teams off the top of my head that don't have one. I'm counting any team who's starting a rookie as 'not having a franchise QB'.

Fitz is a decent QB. He got a bum steer in Buffalo, if you can call being given too much money a bad thing. But that's what happened, they paid him too much, and expected too much from him *cough* Flacco *cough*.

Just looked up his stats, he completed 60% of his passes for 3400 yards, 24TD 16INT. Not pro bowl material, but not a guy you run out of town when you have no one else either. He was decent, and they should've held on to him, since they'd already paid him the money.

[woodbuck27]

Another reason Flynn could be a long-term backup here: He's done poorly everyplace else he's gone. As Patler said, there's a lot worse places to go than GB and be the backup.

I agree with others that Rodgers injury means we now have 3 QBs on the roster going forward. TT and MM gambled on ARods health and got burned. I also wouldn't be surprised if either Flynn or Tolzien (assuming both are around next year) got more practice time with the 1s during the season just to be sure they have a better foundation to come into a game.

Studying his NFL Stat's indicates to me that he's not all that bad. I'm glad he's back.

PACKERS !

[Pugger]

The problem is that if the developmental guy shows enough (Flynn, Hasselback) he is going to get poached if he isn't on the regular roster.

It would mean a tight fit somewhere if they keep 3 QBs on the 53. If Tolzien was still on the PS, then three QBs is a no-brainer.

Even if eligible, no way does Tolzien survive a waiver back to the PS without an offer from somewhere.

Even before Rodgers' injury we upped Tolzien's salary to keep him around while he was still on the PS.

[Pugger]

Matt Flynn could be the long term answer as a backup, for several reasons:

Tolzien will still be looking for a shot at being a starter. He will not be content to hang out behind Rodgers indefinitely.

Flynn had a shot, and it didn't go real well. But, he has made good money the last couple years, enough to set himself up for life. A permanent gig as backup to Rodgers at close to a million per year for as long as he can milk it, with the fun, notoriety and rewards that come from being a playoff contender each year might sound pretty good to him when the alternative might be nothing more than a minimum salary somewhere else.

Doug Pederson left for a 2 year shot at starting in Philadelphia and then Cleveland before realizing that coming back to GB for a vet minimum salary is still a pretty good deal if you can secure it for a solid block of years.

We will know in a couple of weeks how much MM and company want Flynn as Rodgers' backup going forward. Once Rodgers is cleared to play either Tolzien or Flynn will be cut from the active roster. I don't know if we have the luxury of keeping 3 QBs. It could very well be Flynn who gets his walking papers. Flynn was cut from Buffalo the day after Rodgers got hurt but we didn't bring him in until we lost Wallace to IR. Instead we brought Tolzien up from the PS. We shall see.