Is Aaron Rodgers more of the problem than we might think?

[Patler]

As this thread indicates, people have been making excuses for AR since 2015.

It was Clement's fault when he became the play caller.
It was McCarthy's fault for many, varied reasons.
It was TT's fault in roster building.
It was/is the receivers' faults for what they do or don't do.
It was because the receivers were slow.
It's because the receivers are young.
It was/is because the backs are no good and the running game sucks.
It was/is because the running game isn't used enough.
It's the o-line's fault (even when it included Lang and Sitton).
It was because there wasn't a threat at TE.
It was because the offense hasn't changed.
It was because the offense hasn't changed enough.
It's because others are/were injured.
It's because Rodgers is/was injured.

Professional athletes are all faced with the same or similar problems. The Packers and Rodgers are not unique for any of the excuses listed above.
The truly great players overcome the obstacles that face them.
The truly great players make others around them better, not vice-versa.
Rodgers was that type of player for a lot of years.
Rodgers has not been that type of player on a consistent basis for the last four years or so. He has been at times, but not as consistently as previously.

Whether it is due to age, ego, accumulated injuries or whatever, I see no reason to expect a drastic turnaround from what we have seen in the last four years out of Rodgers. Rodgers can still be a significant net plus for the teams success, but he won't do it on his own. They will also need net plus contributions from the defense and special teams.

[pbmax]

I'd put more stock in this theory if in 2016 with another assortment of injuries the offense didn't rank 4th in points. And that was the year of the extended offense. It was all ARod (and Cook). DVOA had them 7th in passing and 5th in running success.

Approaches get schemed for, players get older and less effective. It requires adapting to make it work. The Packer, and Rodgers, have not adapted enough.

Though given M3's comments about play calls and getting open, its clear the disconnect was about execution of the original offense versus scheming players open in a way that is obvious pre snap.

I still side with Rodgers on this. And if you are in the camp that thinks Rodgers is permanently limited in some way, you should be in that camp as well.

[pbmax]

The problem I have with Rodgers comes down to progressions and accuracy.

I have no idea how to decide if accuracy is affected by his health or is simply in decline.

But he does seem unwilling to run a progression based offense at times when in his own half of the field and its killing his team, especially on third down.

[Rutnstrut]

The problem I have with Rodgers comes down to progressions and accuracy.

I have no idea how to decide if accuracy is affected by his health or is simply in decline.

But he does seem unwilling to run a progression based offense at times when in his own half of the field and its killing his team, especially on third down.

So that would point to ego/stat whoring?

[denverYooper]

So that would point to ego/stat whoring?

thrillseeking

[call_me_ishmael]

Great post Pattycakes. I 100% agree.

Peanut Butter, I agree with you that they need to run a progression based offense. It's time to become Tom Brady. The next coach needs to force the issue by blowing plays where the ball is not out in X seconds dead. How good would the Packers be if they ran a timing based, quick hitting hurry up offense? They'd be the best offense in the league. They glided through a premier D like the Bears in week one like a warm knife through room temperature butter.

[pbmax]

So that would point to ego/stat whoring?

No, incompletions don't help his stats unless you are convinced his reason for existence is his interception streak. Go back to 2015 and the end of 2016, his extended offense was the only thing working at times. He learned it was a way around the problems the base offense presented.

Prior to this season, imagine a typical, base offense series after the script. First down pass is dropped or defended. Second down run is stuffed for 2 yards. On 3rd and 7 or longer, pass pro is so good (and Rodgers is a unicorn in making it last longer than it should) you can dance around for 8 seconds and wait for someone to uncover. If you have to break the pocket, you can go for 10 seconds and throw over half of the field.

When pass pro doesn't work, you are injured or inaccurate, those throws on 3rd and 7 or longer are an even bet at best.

They have to break that habit, get back to better down and distance and lay off the low percentage stuff in their half of the field. They should still throw deep, but it shouldn't be the default.

[gbgary]

rodgers has been playing this way for quite a while...other than missing wide open guys. extending him never made sense to me with two years left and coming off a throwing-arm injury.

[texaspackerbacker]

More stupid shit from the ingrates and detractors of Aaron Rodgers

[mraynrand]

More stupid shit from the ingrates and detractors of Aaron Rodgers

And here's Tex with a quality, fact-based rebuttal. Pragmatic!

[mraynrand]

To be honest, this rehtoric about Janis, Abrederis, Rodgers, Adams etc. having to earn AR's trust before they can play is getting old. Coaches say it, AR says it, other players say it and the subject players themselves say it. It might be true, just as it is with other QBs, but it is starting to come across as if AR has the ultimate say over who plays and how much they play. It's almost like a three step process (playbook, coaches, AR) with AR being the final decision maker.

During one of Favre's later years, they had a season when WR after WR was injured. At one time or another something like 10 different WRs were on the roster and played. Not many had the chance to earn Favre's trust, but no one talked about that.

I can see where a team of 60 guys might have a bunch who feel AR is putting himself above the team with his comments.

I was commenting to my wife during the Bear's game (and she was doing everything she could to ignore me) that Rodgers has to stop with the 'you need to be in this exact spot' crap and just throw to his receivers. Several routes, including a TD to EQ, Cobb and prbably a late TD to Scantling were there if you throw to the receiver and not to whatever spot you think they ought to be in. In at least two cases, I saw Rodgers making that pattern running motion with his hand. But really, you look back at those plays and the receivers got open and Rodgers could have just thrown to them instead of 'a spot.' Another area for improvement if only the Packers can find a coach who has experience correcting the errors of an older set-in-his-ways QB.

[Smidgeon]

I was commenting to my wife during the Bear's game (and she was doing everything she could to ignore me) that Rodgers has to stop with the 'you need to be in this exact spot' crap and just throw to his receivers. Several routes, including a TD to EQ, Cobb and prbably a late TD to Scantling were there if you throw to the receiver and not to whatever spot you think they ought to be in. In at least two cases, I saw Rodgers making that pattern running motion with his hand. But really, you look back at those plays and the receivers got open and Rodgers could have just thrown to them instead of 'a spot.' Another area for improvement if only the Packers can find a coach who has experience correcting the errors of an older set-in-his-ways QB.

Pretty sure that's what rookies do. They throw when they see the receiver open. By the time the ball arrives, the window is closed. Don't you by necessity have to throw to a spot? You throw before the break, etc.

[mraynrand]

Pretty sure that's what rookies do. They throw when they see the receiver open. By the time the ball arrives, the window is closed. Don't you by necessity have to throw to a spot? You throw before the break, etc.

I don't think so. Rodgers' egregious overthrows were all to receivers who had already made their breaks before he threw the ball. Just play catch better and you have big plays. But Rodgers can't do it this year, for whatever reason (hurt, tank, old, ??)

[red]

I don't think so. Rodgers' egregious overthrows were all to receivers who had already made their breaks before he threw the ball. Just play catch better and you have big plays. But Rodgers can't do it this year, for whatever reason (hurt, tank, old, ??)

too often we see a-rod looking at a WR, and the WR looking at a-rod. then a-rod throws a ball 20 yards away from the WR and then we see rodgers lecturing the WR about running the wrong route

if he would just throw the ball at the WR, a good chunk of our problems are gone

[Bossman641]

I sometimes wonder if the offense has too many route adjustments built into it. That's the only thing that would make sense in regards to hearing how the wrs need to get on the same page with Rodgers. Rather then scheme guys open with route combinations, did MM and Rodgers create an offense where everyone needs to read everything exactly the same?