IS IT TIME TO PUT UNTOUCHABLE TED ON TRIAL ? HOW DO YOU GRADE HIM ??

[Maxie the Taxi]

I agree, its one dimensional thinking.

But vince has some compelling arguments and data that McCarthy's record, regardless of poor clock management, is fantastic in close, late games.

So we are talking about a few notable failures.

Every coach has foibles. The question is how big are they and how bad do they effect the games? This one is not the worst.

I find the "few notable failures" more compelling than Vince's data. But then that's just me. I've had it with Stubby and his "foibles." Was last night's joke of a game a foible? Stubby's supposed to be an offensive genius and play-caller extraordinaire. I didn't see it last night. I haven't seen it since Arod got hurt. It seems to my uneducated eyes that Stubby's been running the same damn offensive game plan all season long, hoping to get the same results with Hundley as he got with ARod. Genius.

I read that TT and Stubby have one more year left on their contracts. Fine. I'm willing to let them work their magic for another year. Let them hire and fire who they want and then let the chips fall. But I'm sure that next year at this time -- even with a healthy ARod -- we're having the same conversation and listening to the same tired excuses about why we're sharing the basement with the Bears.

And after the season, TT will retire to the Packers' Hall of Fame, his clone will be hired as the team's GM and Stubby's contract will be renewed for another 10 years.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I give Teddy a B, although B+ or A- or B+/A- or A-- is closer.
How many franchises have done better?

Teams go to super bowls with very good QBs, doesn't have to be an ace.

I do think a show trial of Teddy would be endless fun. A kangaroo court with a jury of Ted's haters, you know who you are. Force him to watch endless hours of bad plays by his draft picks. If he speaks up, judge Rutnstrut tells him to sit down and shut up. Bailiff red boxes his ears. Ted's attorney will be the dumbest guy in this forum - you don't know who you are.

[Rutnstrut]

I love how there is an obsession with stats. I trust my eyes. It's not fair to make it all about TT. It's a package deal. He's married to M3 and they have a philosophy and in Capers defense ( no pun intended) he's doing what M3 wants. M3 believes he will more often than not have a lead and the other team will be throwing a lot and taking risks. The defense is predicated on takeaways thus giving our offense more possessions. I admit this worked during the superbowl run but MY EYES see confusion on the defensive side (secondary most often) a team that seriously doesn't look ready to play ( especially in big games) and seems to take an entire half to warm up and get rolling sometimes. I also feel that M3 lacks a killer instinct. We had an offense that could have put 75 up more than once in the last three or four years. I mean wasn't there a game against the 'queens where we had 21 in the first quarter? Hammer these teams. I can tell some of you don't like Belichik but he's got a killer instinct and he's a winner. He goes for it on fourth down when he's up by 21. I like that attitude. I know some of you don't but this is football. It's physical and about attitude. Forget a prissy milquetoast defensive strategy like we currently have and build a BIG defense. Defense travels. Big teams stay big as the year goes on. Fast teams slow down. We play in a cold climate. Have a D line like the Giants did during their two superbowl runs and your other two levels automatically get better. We pass on Watt and take King. Bad decision. Watt makes whoever is paying cb better in my opinion because he can rush the passer. TT is 40% of the problem. It's him and M3...I give Capers a partial pass as he's doing their bidding.

Great post.

[wist43]

I gave TT a D. Minus Rodgers, this is a sub-500 roster; but what is the biggest indictment against TT is his steadfast refusal to remove Capers.

I think Capers has more influence on defensive personnel than people think; and the organisations overall disdain for the ILB position is indicative of how clueless this organization is when it comes to all things defense.

We got lucky in '10 - it really was a fart in the wind.

[mraynrand]

I gave TT a D.

which of the other 31 GMs do you rank higher? (this question is for everyone who gives TT a grade of B or lower)

[denverYooper]

which of the other 31 GMs do you rank higher? (this question is for everyone who gives TT a grade of B or lower)

Jerry Reese

[th87]

NFCC 3 of last 4 years. Perennial playoff team. 3rd winningest team in NFL over last 10 years. Has spawned 3 successful top 10 GMs into the league. Started out with the foundation by hiring a head coach that is a top notch QB coach, then drafting and developing a top 5 QB all time despite fans calling for his head when he turned the page on Brent. Consistently drafts in the bottom 5-6 spots of the round but still puts a winner on the field.

I drop him to a B for not insisting on "retiring" Dom. Also, both he and MM have not adjusted to the very limited practice time allowed by NFL rules and gone to a veteran backup to ARod instead of trying to develop a young talent.

How he is above average?? Well, results alone tell you that he is WAY above average since its 100% his roster and team. If you google top 5 GMs in NFL I would bet he is on every layman's list.

He's mainly living off one smart decision in 2004. After 2011, you could have Mel Kiper running the drafts and have just as good a team as we currently do.

And then the "drafting lower than everyone" fallacy. Let's look at the top 5 defenses in the NFL:

Jaguars - only Ramsay was out of our acquisition range. Everyone else on this elite unit was available to us in some way.
Ravens - Suggs, Mosley, Humphrey. These guys shouldn't be the gap between them being elite, and us being mediocre-to-poor.
Rams - Donald, Brockers, Quinn. This is quite the haul, and the Packers were at a huge disadvantage. Conceded.
Vikings - Barr, Rhodes, Waynes. Also shouldn't be the difference between one of the best and one of the worst.
Cardinals - Peterson, Reddick. Same as above.

The conclusion here is that an elite defense is not being precluded by our lower draft position, as only the players above are those that we absolutely couldn't acquire. And with the exception of the Rams, the players listed really shouldn't make that much of a difference, where they're elite, and we're bottom tier.

So it's not lower draft position that's hindering us; it's the fact that we are mediocre-to-poor in defensive player acquisition, as evidenced above.

[pbmax]

On offense:

Rams: 6th (14.3)
Vikes: 7th (11.6)
Jags: 16th (2.4)
Balt: 20th (-5.1)
Arizona: 29th (-19.1)

Packers: 12th (5.1)


Well, it would seem you do it by being bad on offense. So not sure what to learn from Baltimore, Jacksonville and Arizona.

The Rams are this decades 49ers. A decade plus of drafting in the Top 10 because they were a horrible franchise has yielded some good results with a competent coach and front office. Let's see it last more than 3 years before we put them all in the HoF. Does Trent Baalke still work in the NFL?

The Vikes are clearly on the rise overall, having found a functional offense without Peterson and without what most teams would assume is not a lock of an NFL starter. I am impressed. However as pointed out earlier, the average Viking draft pick order is 13.2 and the median is 12.

http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?30181-IS-IT-TIME-TO-PUT-UNTOUCHABLE-TED-ON-TRIAL-HOW-DO-YOU-GRADE-HIM&p=958523&viewfull=1#post958523

I would love to know how the Packers could get their hands on Trae Waynes, Anthony Barr, Shariff Floyd and Xavier Rhodes.

[mraynrand]

I would love to know how the Packers could get their hands on Trae Waynes, Anthony Barr, Shariff Floyd and Xavier Rhodes.

I'd love to get my hands on Barr - preferably around his neck. Merry Christmas.

[Bossman641]

With the exception of the patriots, the competitive teams have waned over the past 7 years. Early on we heard the 49ers and seahawks would challenge the packers for the next decade. Sf fell off hard. Seattle, as i pointed out in another thread, is trending down. Atlanta has gone up and down. The eagles and saints, fresh off strong drafts, are trending up. But the saints are continuously kicking the can down the road when it comes to Brees. The truth of the matter is its hard to stay consistently good. The entire structure is designed to pull everyone back towards the middle. Anyone claiming that the situations between tt and other gms (drafting wise) is the same is frankly ignoring reality.

With all that said, if capers is back next year ill be disappointed.

[call_me_ishmael]

which of the other 31 GMs do you rank higher? (this question is for everyone who gives TT a grade of B or lower)

As far as the past 5 years go, I'd take:

Bill Belichick
Ozzie Newsome
John Dorsey
Kevin Colbert
Reggie McKenzie
Howie Roseman
Rick Spielman
Thomas Dimitroff
John Schneider
Scot McCloughan

Dimitroff is the most questionable on the list, but he gets the nod for more recent super bowl without a HOF QB.

[mraynrand]

Reggie McKenzie. hee hee

[pbmax]

Forget the draft, here is what you need as backup QB.

[pbmax]

OK, so let me get the math right. If Ted is the 10th best GM in the League in the last five years, he should get the boot?

Uh-huh.

[Carolina_Packer]

It just occurred to me where I've seen that vacant stare that TT had the other night during the game.