IS IT TIME TO PUT UNTOUCHABLE TED ON TRIAL ? HOW DO YOU GRADE HIM ??

[mraynrand]

It just occurred to me where I've seen that vacant stare that TT had the other night during the game.

hahahahahahahaha!

[pbmax]

With Rodgers for only 6 full games, the Packers somehow, despite an idiot as head coach and a moron as GM, are 14th in DVOA average for the season, and that includes weighted score (which considers recent games more important).

Teams with far better personnel departments* below the Packers include:

15 Seattle
16 Atlanta
17 Washington
18 Oakland
22 Arizona
28 San Francisco
29 Denver
30 NY Giants

*just suffering a brief setback due to karma and other factors COMPLETELY outside of their control


I mean, don't we all know Dmitroff, Schneider, McKenzie, McCloughan, John Lynch, John Elway and Jerry Reese are better than Ted?

You have eyes don't you? Any of these guys are better than Ted, who hasn't picked earlier than 21 in the last seven years.

And there is no reason to credit Ted for doing this in the actually competitive NFC. We all know Belichick is better while he competes in the dog breath AFC East.

[mraynrand]

I love how there is an obsession with stats. I trust my eyes.

I look in the standings and see other teams higher than the Packers. I look at the past Superbowl winners and the Packers are only there once under Tad, despite having the greatest QB in modern history who just happened to fall into their lap, fully formed, raising the performance level of everyone around him who couldn't even make the Brown's squad. Have I ever told you how the Packers are always one and done in the playoffs? They should win the Superbowl every year, just like all the other good teams do.

[esoxx]

With Rodgers for only 6 full games, the Packers somehow, despite an idiot as head coach and a moron as GM, are 14th in DVOA average for the season, and that includes weighted score (which considers recent games more important).

Teams with far better personnel departments* below the Packers include:

15 Seattle
16 Atlanta
17 Washington
18 Oakland
22 Arizona
28 San Francisco
29 Denver
30 NY Giants

*just suffering a brief setback due to karma and other factors COMPLETELY outside of their control


I mean, don't we all know Dmitroff, Schneider, McKenzie, McCloughan, John Lynch, John Elway and Jerry Reese are better than Ted?

You have eyes don't you? Any of these guys are better than Ted, who hasn't picked earlier than 21 in the last seven years.

And there is no reason to credit Ted for doing this in the actually competitive NFC. We all know Belichick is better while he competes in the dog breath AFC East.

I think it's fair to say however that none of the names mentioned above have overt signs of early stage dementia. None have the gape mouth, slow slurred speech, and other signs of mental deterioration. I think it's fair to have concerns about the state of his mental coherence at this point. Having Captain Pike post-accident at the head of your ship is not overly inspiring.

[esoxx]

I love how there is an obsession with stats. I trust my eyes.

I look in the standings and see other teams higher than the Packers. I look at the past Superbowl winners and the Packers are only there once under Tad, despite having the greatest QB in modern history who just happened to fall into their lap, fully formed, raising the performance level of everyone around him who couldn't even make the Brown's squad. Have I ever told you how the Packers are always one and done in the playoffs? They should win the Superbowl every year, just like all the other good teams do.

Your narrative is tired.

[Carolina_Packer]

I'm not concerned with comparing him to other GM's in order to make a decision about him. I'm only concerned with the results of the team, and what he is doing or not doing that is affecting those results. The D...not good enough. It's not all TT's fault for his personnel moves, but it is his responsibility over time to fix the issues that have cropped up. I'm not saying I know any of the personnel moves he should have made or did make that adversely affected the performance of the D, but he is ultimately responsible for the results because he allows coaches to be kept around, and was either talked into allowing Capers to stay, or gave MM the ultimate decision on keeping him or firing him, which goes against TT's bottom line.

Injuries suck, and the Packers have had a ton of them. That does affect how the game can be schemed and ultimately played, but in an effort to keep the team young and manage the cap well, their depth has been tested mightily the last two years and has not shown out, but been exposed. Allowing still productive players to walk in favor of guys who are not ultimately ready to be the replacements for the guys who were allowed to leave only puts more pressure on Dom. I'm not saying keep him, I'm just trying to be fair-minded. Clearly what he is trying to do is not working, whether because of injuries, lack of talented depth, or lack of key acquisitions or keeping still productive players in the name of keeping the cap clean and roster churning. Everyone here to a person at least had some concern/questions about where the pass rush was going to come from this year, and that has proven to be a founded concern. These are all red ledger items for TT, and it's time for him to fix it or risk continuing to waste the presence of a once in a generation QB.

[texaspackerbacker]

Strangely, to me anyway, only 6 out of 33 in the poll have Ted in the bottom two categories. I've observed that whenever there are articles with comments or opportunities for posting in Yahoo, Facebook, Twitter, or wherever, there is a MUCH bigger anti-Ted percentage (and I'm talking about strangers, not merely friends and relatives of mine).

Draw your own conclusions about that, I guess.

I've also observed in those places, it's about 50/50 on Capers and strongly negative on poor Hundley, who I still say is a damn good QB, just surrounded by mediocrity that Aaron Rodgers managed to make look good.

[bobblehead]

I don't think you can put many of those QB's in the same class as Rodgers. Rodger and Brady....GB and NE.....have elite QB's

the rest are good

Or do they both benefit from having more weapons? Also, by the numbers they are not the 2 best QBs in the game. I think someone somewhere posted about how Brady benefits big time from the D he gets to play with.

Rodgers best play in the NFCC the year we won the bowl was tackling a defender after he threw a pick.

I agree, Rodgers legs elevate him above every elite passer in the game, and his passing elevates him above mobile QBs. However, without him we still competed. Look at how Houston has been without Watson...a rookie!!

I can pin blame where it is deserved, no problem. But seriously, TT has spawned more successful GMs than anyone I can think of. MM on the other hand has spawned no one. Capers needs to go first. If MM doesn't can him then TT should can MM. If neither happens then both should be canned.

[bobblehead]

I don't consider Brees on Rodgers level at all. That team was not that good with Lueck imo and I don't think he's on Rodgers level either

If the only argument that counts is yours, then yes, you are correct.

[bobblehead]

look back at the 8 games Hundley qb'ed...2-6 with 2 wins against bad teams. wins and losses isn't a qb stat (as Aaron Nagler likes to point out and i agree with)...unless you're talking about Green Bay. with Rodgers on the field the O is nearly unstoppable and makes up for the D's massive shortcomings. he even makes up for offensive short comings.

Math is not your strong suit is it?

And show me all the shootouts that we lost in the playoffs where Rodgers carried them.

Edit...just 2 seasons ago the D held 2 opponents to 20 in regulation....Rodgers was 1-1

[texaspackerbacker]

Bobble, did I seriously read in post #113 that you said Aaron Rodgers "benefits from having more weapons" like Brady?

If Aaron Rodgers ever had time like Brady gets to throw, he'd be even better than he is, and if he EVER had receivers like Atlanta or Minnesota or NE or probably more than half of the other teams in the league, we'd score 40 or 50 every game.

[bobblehead]

Disagree on the killer instinct....so if clock management is to blame that falls under incompetence now doesn't it? EDIT And now that I think about what you posted your statement is absurd. You use meaningless stats to say we are neck and neck with the Pats. Since TT, M3 and Rodgers have been here how many Superbowls have the Packers won/appeared in compared to the Pats? That's what this is about...not arcane numbers which in the end may tell you something but more often than not cause delusion. I'll quote Bud Grant here: 'stats are for losers'. Shoe fits with this regime Cinderella! You can site all the numbers and third down stats etc in the end winning and winning the important games is what matters. We fail there. So when I said all I have is the scoreboard in response to another poster in another thread wasn't capitulating. I was serious. Keep drinking the kool aid folks.

By your own logic, TT is wildly successful.

[bobblehead]

I find the "few notable failures" more compelling than Vince's data. But then that's just me. I've had it with Stubby and his "foibles." Was last night's joke of a game a foible? Stubby's supposed to be an offensive genius and play-caller extraordinaire. I didn't see it last night. I haven't seen it since Arod got hurt. It seems to my uneducated eyes that Stubby's been running the same damn offensive game plan all season long, hoping to get the same results with Hundley as he got with ARod. Genius.

I read that TT and Stubby have one more year left on their contracts. Fine. I'm willing to let them work their magic for another year. Let them hire and fire who they want and then let the chips fall. But I'm sure that next year at this time -- even with a healthy ARod -- we're having the same conversation and listening to the same tired excuses about why we're sharing the basement with the Bears.

And after the season, TT will retire to the Packers' Hall of Fame, his clone will be hired as the team's GM and Stubby's contract will be renewed for another 10 years.

For real? I wish they ran the ball that much with Arod. Give him easy 3rd and 2nd downs. Rest the D. Keep opposing D off balance. The 2 O's aren't even similar, you must be watching football on a bizzarro world TV

[bobblehead]

Jerry Reese

Wow...you mean the guy who hired MM's acolyte and burned the organization to the ground? This is the epitome of a GM who got lucky with a hot QB at just the right moment. 2 seasons ago (or was it last?) he spent a trumpian fortune on the Defense and is now the fired GM of a 2-13 team.

Bravo, you just broke the internet with stupidity!

[bobblehead]

As far as the past 5 years go, I'd take:

Bill Belichick
Ozzie Newsome
John Dorsey
Kevin Colbert
Reggie McKenzie
Howie Roseman
Rick Spielman
Thomas Dimitroff
John Schneider
Scot McCloughan

Dimitroff is the most questionable on the list, but he gets the nod for more recent super bowl without a HOF QB.

So....3 TT acolytes?