Off-season 2023 Banjo

[run pMc]

As for improving, the worst thing this season to me was the interceptions - the greatest of all his great qualities over his career. What did he throw? 11 or something like that? Still better than most other top level QBs. I certainly dobn't think that was due to a change in his mindset not to throw picks. It was the injury as well as the inexperienced receivers for the most part. Thus, I expect that absolutely to return to MVP level next season.

You might be surprised to know Rodgers is listed at #9 for most interceptions this year. Mahomes and Burrow also threw 12 interceptions, but a lower % of their throws were intercepted, and they also threw for far more yards and touchdowns. In other words, they had some picks but generally were more efficient and effective throwers. Adams was a very good outlet for 50/50 and "fuck it" throws from Rodgers; I suspect losing him was a cause... I think that level of trust took years to build and won't magically happen next season. His Int % might improve but his MVP days are done. Mahomes threw for 800 more yards for crying out loud.

I don't accuse him of being a stat whore, and the run game was generally good this year -- with some exceptions, often due to OL issues or MLF not calling runs enough or Rodgers checking out of them. They didn't really gain more yardage running this year vs. last, and didn't really run the ball much more either... so that argument doesn't really hold. If he's so good he should be able to make even inexperienced receivers work...and what about Lazard, Cobb and Tonyan? They aren't inexperienced. Not saying they aren't factors in his performance but I think you're overemphasizing them.

The thumb injury hurt his production but if he can't throw he shouldn't play. They have Jordan Love as a backup, see what he's got. By the Rams game his thumb was better, and he still wasn't throwing it great. I'm skeptical of just how much water the excuses hold.

[call_me_ishmael]

Are we even having this discussion if Gooter landed one solid starter in the 2020 and 2021 drafts? The team is looking not as talented _because_ the team isn't as talented. Those two drafts are the reason why. You get 2 or 3 solid starters from both of those drafts and this team is absolutely loaded right now.

[Deputy Nutz]

If the Packers are "lucky" enough to stick with Rodgers, then the 2020 is all in all pretty terrible because Love still hasn't contributed as a 1st round pick. Dillion was over valued as a 2nd round pick. Frustrating because if you were willing to use a 2nd round pick on a running back, instead of trading up for Love you could have held your original pick and taken Johnathan Taylor, I don't think anyone here would argue that Dillion is a better back than Taylor. Deguara was also over valued for what he brings, you would expect more from a 3rd round pick than being a decent blocker out of the Y-off position.

Packers also passed on a need at LB when drafting Love, they had Queen, and Brooks on the board when they selected Love. Both are far better than anything the Packers have in Green Bay.

2021 Draft, hard to value this draft with it only being two seasons ago, I really liked Eric Stokes as a rookie. He probably played more than anyone thought because of the injury to Alexander. He can run but his agility isn't top tier, has issues flipping his hips and being able to break on the comeback route. Also might not be the smartest cat in the DB room, hard to see the progress when he was hurt for 12 games this season, Josh Myers is slightly above average, He has also been banged up with knee injuries so its tough to get a good read on his progress. Amari Rodgers is garbage. Weird, because at the time it was a pretty decent value pick. Slaton has been ok on the defensive line, most likely will be a rotation guy or fill guy which isn't terrible for the round you drafted him in.

So far in two drafts you haven't gotten one stud or superstar out of those classes. I agree more attention should be paid to how shitty Gute has drafted in recent times.

[Deputy Nutz]

You said in your other post "if Rodgers does whatever in the offseason" and that "maybe he isn't up to Brady level in that". Where does that come from? First of all, considering the huge money everybody in the NFL makes, I doubt if virtually any do not do their offseason training at pretty much 100%.

Brady is known for ridiculous amount of training in the off-season and doing what he can to keep father time at bay. I think Brady is the Mount Rushmore of off season training as far as QBs are concerned. My reference to this, is when Rodgers's season fell apart in the last year of McCarthy everyone said he was washed up or at the very least on the down side of his career.
He of course took it personal and talked about his training regiments over and over again with McAfee. He got into power lifting and said his legs never felt better. Now you see him go on vacations with his ex girlfriend and movie stars, or his trips into another dimension taking the purple drank from the shaman. Look at his stats in the last several years, particularly his rushing stats. They have fallen off each year. It was one of his most under rated qualities because defenses had to account for it, which opened up the high low game for the Packers passing offense. Defenses can just sit on the curl/flat routes now because he doesn't break the pocket as often. He can't get out of the pocket either! He took too many sacks in 2023.

Secondly, I don't think there's a bit of evidence that Rodgers doesn't. Other than the effects of the thumb injury, was there any evidence of diminished arm strength? I'd say no. Diminished accuracy, sometimes, but that even more so was probably the thumb. His legs? He showed the mobility and ability to run on rare occasions just about as good as ever - way better than Brady ever did, Throwing problems because of his legs? He always has thrown a lot from nonstandard positions - almost as much as Favre. That ability shows the arm strength - putting the "sauce" on it even without his legs set under him.

Not this year, you can blame the thumb injury, but I saw a lack of accuracy and the ability to get the ball out to the side line when his feet weren't set. I will never compare Rodgers ability to run the ball to Brady's. Rodgers although needs it a bit more than Brady ever did. It wasn't as good as ever because he got tracked down from behind way more this year than ever before.

As for improving, the worst thing this season to me was the interceptions - the greatest of all his great qualities over his career. What did he throw? 11 or something like that? Still better than most other top level QBs. I certainly dobn't think that was due to a change in his mindset not to throw picks. It was the injury as well as the inexperienced receivers for the most part. Thus, I expect that absolutely to return to MVP level next season.

A lot was made by the shitheads in here of the fact that he threw for less yardage - none or very few 300 yard games. Well, that was likely same idiots who whined that he was a "stat whore" in years where he threw for a lot more yardage. The main reason, of course for the lesser passing yards was dependence on the running game as well as the inexperienced receivers. That should improve some next season, but I still don't expect it to get to the level of his MVP years.

Aaron is never going to throw a lot of INTs, some of them this year were very unlike Aaron in years past. Almost careless with some of his passes, which has never been a fault of his. New receiving core can also be responsible for some of it, but him not seeing safeties and defenders sneaking into zones or robbing zones was a head scratcher this year

The bottom line in terms of MVP or Comeback Player or whatever is the record of the team. If we get to 13-4 or 14-3 again, very possible IMO, then hell yeah. If we win or at least get to the Super Bowl, there's a strong chance he gets MVP, as the team sure won't get that far if he isn't playing at a high level.

Obviously great QB play is the biggest trump card in the NFL. If Rodgers comes back and plays like the 2021 or 2020 Rodgers then I think the Packers will be very successful. I think it's about 50/50 he can do that. What doesn't work is constantly being at odds with the front office and coaching staff. That's not good for anybody.

As for cheering for a trade - like the dumbasses in here are craving? First of all, hell no - not unless it is 4 or 5 years from now and the next Rodgers level QB is waiting in the wings. and second of all, it just ain't gonna happen in the short term. One thing even the dumbasses wanting a trade I think would agree, his contract - for better or worse, I say BETTER - effectively prevents a trade. Some people in here whine about Rodgers demanding huge money and holding the team hostage or whatever. What he got - and what IMO was his motivation - was a contract that effectively kept him in Green Bay/prevented a trade. And clearly - to me at least - that's what Gutekunst and LaFleur wanted too - paying him so much that staying is way more attractive than retiring. The shitheads think that is a bad thing. I don't, and I think it's safe to say Gutekunst and LaFleur don't think it's a bad thing either.

I don't know about a trade, Rodgers has made the money regardless if he is traded or if he wants the trade. He for some reason doesn't think the Packers have or willing to do what it takes to win a Super Bowl. I think he is a control freak, he knows that the only thing he can really control is himself so thats why he talks so much about MVP, its an individual awards, its within his control. Too many moving pieces to talk about Super Bowl or bust. My point to you personally, is if the Packers did trade him you would positively spin it so that you support it.

[texaspackerbacker]

You make some valid points on some of that, and not so much on others.

On the offseason thing, I've heard that about Brady too, but my point was, these days, who in the NFL doesn't do that. As for Rodgers, is there really any reason to think he didn't do as much as Brady or anybody else, just because of his well-publicized activities? Do any of us know for sure how much he does or doesn't do? The result of the training is the best indicator, and he certainly didn't appear to be out of shape. And I say again, anything with the arm could probably be attributed to the thumb. Brady does all that training, and he ain't and never has been the QB Rodgers or a lot of others are with respect to his legs? What does that say about the two of them? Age creeps up on everybody (even me sometimes hahahaha), so Rodgers may have been a little bit slower or less mobile, but certainly not much.

I noticed the same uncharacteristic shit on the interceptions as well as some other throws he got away with that didn't seem normal for him. Most of those, though, were in a few bad games. The healthier the thumb got and the WRs got, the more he looked like his old self.

The crap about Rodgers fighting with LaFleur and to slightly less extent with Gutekunst is greatly overblown IMO - a product of media bastards doing their damnedest to stir up trouble. Some in here seem to swallow the shit like it's candy. Everything I've heard from the principals involved says mostly harmony, during the season anyway. There might have been some wrangling before the contract, but not after. And the "control freak" thing? To the very small extent (IMO) that was true, the team was better off for it.

[Bretsky]

The crap about Rodgers fighting with LaFleur and to slightly less extent with Gutekunst is greatly overblown IMO - a product of media bastards doing their damnedest to stir up trouble. Some in here seem to swallow the shit like it's candy. Everything I've heard from the principals involved says mostly harmony, during the season anyway. There might have been some wrangling before the contract, but not after. And the "control freak" thing? To the very small extent (IMO) that was true, the team was better off for it.

I think it's much worse. And I think Rodgers has encourages and is almost a part of the media bastards now. Remember when Brett Favre used to ask himself questions in front the media, and then answer himself. Rodgers has resorted to the same shit lately. The more you listen to Erin the media guy answer his own questions on the show with the Jokester the worse he sounds.

Did you hear Rodgers interview where he said the last three of Flowers play calls in that loss stunk ? And did you see the follow up question to Flower about how he felt about Aaron making those comments ? Flower just squirmed and he looked like he wanted to cry. Flower feels helpless at this point and watched every word he says. I think Gute is fed up with the Assitant GM part of Rodgers and at this point I don't blame him.

The team is no better off with Randall Cobb and Mercedes Lewis taking up roster spots and that should be Gute's call. But Rodgers the media guy asks himself the question on the show with his tool and then answers it all and there is no good that comes out of that. It's just more leveraging from the Assistant GM. And while I'm perfectly FINE with Rodgers if he's going to come back as a TEAM player, he needs to be FIRED as the ASSISTANT GM.

If he's going to leverage bringing back sub par players in place of young guys with upside, that is not a leader I want to have anymore.

[Bretsky]

The crap about Rodgers fighting with LaFleur and to slightly less extent with Gutekunst is greatly overblown IMO - a product of media bastards doing their damnedest to stir up trouble. Some in here seem to swallow the shit like it's candy. Everything I've heard from the principals involved says mostly harmony, during the season anyway. There might have been some wrangling before the contract, but not after. And the "control freak" thing? To the very small extent (IMO) that was true, the team was better off for it.

I'd add this to. This is what RODGERS SHOULD HAVE SAID AFTER THE SEASON......

It was a fun ending to the season, and we obviously have a lot of youthful talent at the receiving position and maybe we'll have the opportunity to add more. We finished the season winning 4 of the last 5 games and many of us were working through injuries last year.

I'm really excited about continuing the develop the chemistry with your youngers receivers and making a playoff run next year when we are all healthy

WOULD THAT HAVE REALLY BEEN THAT HARD ?

Instead, he turns to Sharon after the Bears game, starting to use the media tools to play the game....that at the end of the year he's going to have to see if GB wants him back and he wants to continue.

AT THAT POINT, WE KNEW THE DRAMA WAS ON IT'S WAY AGAIN

[sharpe1027]

Favre doesn't need to go public with this type of statements. The fact that is does shows it's more about himself than the team.

That's separate from his ability to still play, but annoying just the same.

[call_me_ishmael]

It is absolutely malpriactice to not at least see if you can get old man Fangio in for an interview.

[Fritz]

It is absolutely malpriactice to not at least see if you can get old man Fangio in for an interview.

I was reading an article in PFF and saw this great Joe Barely slam just kinda casually ending a segment on which Packer free agent the team could least afford to lose: "But with Green Bay keeping defensive coordinator Joe Barry on staff, it doesn’t seem to matter how many investments they make on defense."

How true that is.

[bobblehead]

It is absolutely malpriactice to not at least see if you can get old man Fangio in for an interview.

Fangio, Leonhard, Evero, Bowles, Del Rio

This would be the time to make a switch.

[texaspackerbacker]

I agree, but it seems like there's a strong chance LaFleur does not.

[call_me_ishmael]

It does make you kind of wonder. If they are going to trade ARod, you'd think they'd clean house and start over. Keeping this dude maybe implies they're not going to do that.

[Bretsky]

Maybe they think the Love Machine might be successful

[The Shadow]

It is absolutely malpriactice to not at least see if you can get old man Fangio in for an interview.

This.