Off-season 2023 Banjo

[Sparkey]

This be a good point.

That chart Joe posted would take some studying. The Chiefs, for example, have very, very little dead money - you'd think that's a good thing - yet they are beneath the Packers in cap space. So do they just have a lot of active players they are paying a lot of money to? And the Iggles - lots of dead money there, so how'd they pay to have a Super Bowl team this year?

In 2023, Hurts will earn a base salary of $4,204,000 and a workout bonus of $100,000, while carrying a cap hit of $4,789,486 and a dead cap value of $485,486.

^^^ That is Why ^^^

[run pMc]

And also Devonte Smith etc. - basically they have some younger cheaper players who are emerging.
They will have a number of starters who are FA - Javon Hargraves is going to break the bank.
Also, Howie Roseman is a pretty good GM, and he's managed to steal some picks and players from NO.

With KC, they have to be up against the cap -- they're talking about Frank Clark being let go. They did well without Tyreek Hill, if he was on the team they would be in worse shape. Also, Mahomes' cap number jumps next year from $36M to $49M.

[sharpe1027]

This be a good point.

That chart Joe posted would take some studying. The Chiefs, for example, have very, very little dead money - you'd think that's a good thing - yet they are beneath the Packers in cap space. So do they just have a lot of active players they are paying a lot of money to? And the Iggles - lots of dead money there, so how'd they pay to have a Super Bowl team this year?

Where teams are now with cap is just a snapshot in time. Dead money comes from cutting players, which usually happens because the team is otherwise going to be over the cap. It can be made worse by restructuring to move money into later years.

Looking at the Packers, for example, we just voided and restructured deals. That means we have roster spots to fill and we pushed contract risk for restructured players into future years. A team that was in decent cap space wouldn't have needed to make similar cuts, so they may have a larger cap number, lowe dead money and have lost less through cuts.

[call_me_ishmael]

I laughed.

https://www.reddit.com/r/GreenBayPackers/comments/11dvc4f/when_rodgers_announced_his_darkness_retreat_the/

[Fritz]

No no no. The Packers are just cruising along, doing what needs to be done for short term deadlines, etc. The cap can always be defeated. As the chart shows, almost half the league is worse off than the Packers on the cap, many MUCH worse, and many are worse off for dead money, and trust me, ALL of those will field at very least a moderately competitive team. The other thing to notice from that chart is that the teams in "cap heaven" - seemingly best shape cap-wise - are for the most part, the current and/or perennial losers in the league. Be careful what you wish for, ya'all cap worry worts hahahahahahaha.

So if the cap can always be defeated, New Orleans should be just fine this year, make whatever moves they want to.

[texaspackerbacker]

I'm not familiar with what's the big deal about the Saints. They are second from worst on the chart, and Tampa is nearly twice as bad off as they are. They may not be fine this year for kinda the same reason as the Bears won't be fine - they don't have very good players. They will, however, OF COURSE field a team, and I doubt it will be significantly worse than they were last season. You mentioned the Chiefs - 5 notches worse than the Packers but very little dead money. Yeah, that might be an indicator of quality - few high paid players that failed (often a matter of injuries or other forms of luck). The Texans also have relatively little dead money, though, and they stunk last season and probably next also.

There was discussion of the Eagles somewhere in here. They are just below the Packers cap-wise, and presumably they have a huge contract coming up for Hurts. I doubt their fans are whining or worrying, but maybe some are, just like in here.

I say again, as I've said for maybe a decade or more, and this chart seems to point out, teams that play it close to the edge of the cap tend to have more success than those who are too cautious. As I also have said for at least a decade, LUCK is the primary factor in a lot of areas.

Just because the cap can be handled or defeated doesn't mean you can buy a winner - sorta what runpMc said in this or another thread, there are limits.

[run pMc]

This be a good point.

That chart Joe posted would take some studying. The Chiefs, for example, have very, very little dead money - you'd think that's a good thing - yet they are beneath the Packers in cap space. So do they just have a lot of active players they are paying a lot of money to? And the Iggles - lots of dead money there, so how'd they pay to have a Super Bowl team this year?

Re: the Eagles, here's their list of FA:CB James Bradberry, S C.J. Gardner-Johnson, DT Fletcher Cox, DE Robert Quinn, DE Brandon Graham, DT Javon Hargrave, C Jason Kelce, G Isaac Seumalo, T Andre Dillard, LB Kyzir White, LB T.J. Edwards, DT Ndamukong Suh, DT Linval Joseph, RB Miles Sanders, RB Boston Scott

They have $6M of cap space. Per Football Outsiders, the defensive players on this list logged 7000 snaps in total. Their defense will likely look completely different next year.
It's also worth pointing out that besides AJ Brown, they also dealt picks for now-FA's Gardner-Johnson and Quinn. They really went after it this year and came just short.

It's hard to win a Super Bowl.

[Fritz]

Re: the Eagles, here's their list of FA:CB James Bradberry, S C.J. Gardner-Johnson, DT Fletcher Cox, DE Robert Quinn, DE Brandon Graham, DT Javon Hargrave, C Jason Kelce, G Isaac Seumalo, T Andre Dillard, LB Kyzir White, LB T.J. Edwards, DT Ndamukong Suh, DT Linval Joseph, RB Miles Sanders, RB Boston Scott

They have $6M of cap space. Per Football Outsiders, the defensive players on this list logged 7000 snaps in total. Their defense will likely look completely different next year.
It's also worth pointing out that besides AJ Brown, they also dealt picks for now-FA's Gardner-Johnson and Quinn. They really went after it this year and came just short.

It's hard to win a Super Bowl.

That used to happen to me in my twenties.

[texaspackerbacker]

Re: the Eagles, here's their list of FA:CB James Bradberry, S C.J. Gardner-Johnson, DT Fletcher Cox, DE Robert Quinn, DE Brandon Graham, DT Javon Hargrave, C Jason Kelce, G Isaac Seumalo, T Andre Dillard, LB Kyzir White, LB T.J. Edwards, DT Ndamukong Suh, DT Linval Joseph, RB Miles Sanders, RB Boston Scott

They have $6M of cap space. Per Football Outsiders, the defensive players on this list logged 7000 snaps in total. Their defense will likely look completely different next year.
It's also worth pointing out that besides AJ Brown, they also dealt picks for now-FA's Gardner-Johnson and Quinn. They really went after it this year and came just short.

It's hard to win a Super Bowl.

Which points out why I always say, I'd much rather my favorite team cruise along and win 13 or 14 most every year, feast or famine for the Super Bowl be damned.

[call_me_ishmael]

So if the cap can always be defeated, New Orleans should be just fine this year, make whatever moves they want to.

No, but the reason they are not a great team is not so much past cap decisions as that their good players signed to big deals got hurt. They have a lot of talent IMO. Just need a QB.

[sharpe1027]

The cap discuss is a joke. Nobody argues that a team will be unable to field enough players. That's just stupid thing to even bring up.

It's simpler that that. Every team is competing for the same players, whether it's true free agency or resigning before players hi t free agency. A team that has more cap room can pay more to sign better players, sign more players, or both.

So, you can always move things around to field a full roster, but comparatively teams are able to sign better or more players based on past decisions. There are no free passes.

[ThunderDan]

No, but the reason they are not a great team is not so much past cap decisions as that their good players signed to big deals got hurt. They have a lot of talent IMO. Just need a QB.

Not really true, NO had $43,000,000 in dead money in 2022. They did have a lot of injuries but they couldn't use 21.33% of their cap to sign actual players to their 2022 roster.

[NewsBruin]

Cap hell + low passing talent is presumably the reason Sean Payton left the Saints.

[call_me_ishmael]

Not really true, NO had $43,000,000 in dead money in 2022. They did have a lot of injuries but they couldn't use 21.33% of their cap to sign actual players to their 2022 roster.

Good point but they still had a lot of good players on the roster. They'll be back in no time if cantguardmike gets healthy.

[texaspackerbacker]

The cap discuss is a joke. Nobody argues that a team will be unable to field enough players. That's just stupid thing to even bring up.

It's simpler that that. Every team is competing for the same players, whether it's true free agency or resigning before players hi t free agency. A team that has more cap room can pay more to sign better players, sign more players, or both.

So, you can always move things around to field a full roster, but comparatively teams are able to sign better or more players based on past decisions. There are no free passes.

Cap room undoubtedly is one of the factors in who free agents go to, but far from the only factor. It's at least as important which teams are willing to stretch things to the limit and which ones are not. Another factor, of course, is current players and coaches that potential FAs want to play with and for. The bottom line is that even though there is a limit, teams can do pretty much whatever the decide is necessary.

From what I gather from these posts above, it seems like New Orleans had some bad luck - injuries, etc. - that hurt them a lot more than cap or dead money problems.