THIS is who ICE throws out of the country first?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

He's certainly got a massive ego that he loves to massage and tell everyone else how inferior and dumb they are while he boasts about how wonderful he is. His brother GoPackGo is the same damn way.

I tell everyone how inferior and dumb they are? I boast how wonderful I am?

I rarely debate with anyone.

My favorite part is he is now calling you my brother.

I'll be expecting a sizeable Xmas this year, my brotha!!

The best Xmas gift anyone on this forum could get is a ninja attack on Partial at the Packerrats.com posters game in which all of Partials fingers are broken and he's left wearing his nose as an earring.

Sounds good. I'll take that on the third night of Hanukkah instead of socks and underwear!!

You need to start thinking more immediately. Time to invent an Eleventh Plague.

You think god will unleash a plague that rids of partial? Seems kinda limited.

[texaspackerbacker]

Tyrone, I don't know how old you are (I suspect fairly young). I don't even know for sure you are black (but that at least is your forum persona).

Some of us are old enough to have been around back in the pre-civil rights era. I was a kid in Wisconsin back then, although I did travel through the south a couple of times. There are a lot of older generation blacks who remember that time who quietly lament the transformation of their situation and the attitudes and behavior of their subsequent generations as a result of a movement that was essentially promoted by a bunch of Hillary Clinton-types.

Granted, the time may come when the black population again achieves normalcy--this time in the context of equality and racial harmony. But it hasn't happened yet, and it won't happen until they stop being the pawns of the liberals and the Democrat Party. A lot of blacks are achieving success in the "white" system, and how are they perceived by liberal opinion leaders of the black population? This is not a rhetorical question. I'd like to hear what you have to say--considering the way they disrespect Condoleeza Rice. other successful blacks in conservative politics and business, even Bob Johnson, who is anything but a conservative.

WHile there are older black folks who definitely lament the current hip hop culture..and the violence of today's society....they aren't lamenting a return to pre civil rights america.


You pose it as an either or...as if you can't have one without the other.

I suppose you and other older whites are just as unhappy since Elvis started with his coon music and got all the white kids riled up.

You know the thing I regret most about getting old? I have the same ideas I've always had, but now they are perceived as the ideas of the old. Back in the days when people used YOUR term, "coon", black music was pretty nice. IMO, it has turned to crap right along with most white music in the same time frame. That, however, is mere opinion--personal preference.

The DEVASTATION to both black and white cultures is NOT mere opinion. It is solid fact--from homicides down to much less serious negative aspects. And WHO is to blame? It is those who have promoted the whole movement--LIBERALS--chiefly white liberals, but the black "overseers of the LIBERAL plantation" like Jesse Jackson are to blame also.

The music is just symbolic--a fairly trivial factor. It is the horrible transformation of attitudes and behavior that is the real issue. Can you HONESTLY say that those are not horrendously worse for blacks compared to a generation or two ago--with a major spillover into white culture, attitude, and behavior too?

And it all goes back to LIBERAL cultural boat-rockers--in civil rights, but certainly not limited to the civil rights arena--basically trying to reshape America into a worse place.

I agree. Let's all go back to a time when blacks weren't uppity and knew their place, Jews knew which neighborhoods to live in..and were restricted in the amount that could attend law/med school, women couldn't vote, women only worked as secretaries and school teachers (or hookers), blacks couldn't ride in the front of buses, drink from OUR water fountains, stay at our hotels.

Interesting how you use the word OUR, Tyrone. Are you now saying that you AREN'T black?

Hoosier, assuming your homicide stats are true--not merely made up, then that eliminates one aspect of devastation. Then all you have left is virtually every aspect of attitudes toward morality and behavior--including but not limited to abortion, the mainstreaming of homosexuality, drug use, media bias, corrupt practices in sports, dumbing down of education, etc.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Tyrone, I don't know how old you are (I suspect fairly young). I don't even know for sure you are black (but that at least is your forum persona).

Some of us are old enough to have been around back in the pre-civil rights era. I was a kid in Wisconsin back then, although I did travel through the south a couple of times. There are a lot of older generation blacks who remember that time who quietly lament the transformation of their situation and the attitudes and behavior of their subsequent generations as a result of a movement that was essentially promoted by a bunch of Hillary Clinton-types.

Granted, the time may come when the black population again achieves normalcy--this time in the context of equality and racial harmony. But it hasn't happened yet, and it won't happen until they stop being the pawns of the liberals and the Democrat Party. A lot of blacks are achieving success in the "white" system, and how are they perceived by liberal opinion leaders of the black population? This is not a rhetorical question. I'd like to hear what you have to say--considering the way they disrespect Condoleeza Rice. other successful blacks in conservative politics and business, even Bob Johnson, who is anything but a conservative.

WHile there are older black folks who definitely lament the current hip hop culture..and the violence of today's society....they aren't lamenting a return to pre civil rights america.


You pose it as an either or...as if you can't have one without the other.

I suppose you and other older whites are just as unhappy since Elvis started with his coon music and got all the white kids riled up.

You know the thing I regret most about getting old? I have the same ideas I've always had, but now they are perceived as the ideas of the old. Back in the days when people used YOUR term, "coon", black music was pretty nice. IMO, it has turned to crap right along with most white music in the same time frame. That, however, is mere opinion--personal preference.

The DEVASTATION to both black and white cultures is NOT mere opinion. It is solid fact--from homicides down to much less serious negative aspects. And WHO is to blame? It is those who have promoted the whole movement--LIBERALS--chiefly white liberals, but the black "overseers of the LIBERAL plantation" like Jesse Jackson are to blame also.

The music is just symbolic--a fairly trivial factor. It is the horrible transformation of attitudes and behavior that is the real issue. Can you HONESTLY say that those are not horrendously worse for blacks compared to a generation or two ago--with a major spillover into white culture, attitude, and behavior too?

And it all goes back to LIBERAL cultural boat-rockers--in civil rights, but certainly not limited to the civil rights arena--basically trying to reshape America into a worse place.

I agree. Let's all go back to a time when blacks weren't uppity and knew their place, Jews knew which neighborhoods to live in..and were restricted in the amount that could attend law/med school, women couldn't vote, women only worked as secretaries and school teachers (or hookers), blacks couldn't ride in the front of buses, drink from OUR water fountains, stay at our hotels.

Interesting how you use the word OUR, Tyrone. Are you now saying that you AREN'T black?

Hoosier, assuming your homicide stats are true--not merely made up, then that eliminates one aspect of devastation. Then all you have left is virtually every aspect of attitudes toward morality and behavior--including but not limited to abortion, the mainstreaming of homosexuality, drug use, media bias, corrupt practices in sports, dumbing down of education, etc.

Whether i'm black or not is of no concern.

Hoosiers facts are valid.

You can also remove drugs. Drug use is pretty much the same as it always has been..infact, less addicts now then there were in 1900.

Depending upon whose judgment, or whose assessment, you accept there were between two and five percent of the entire adult population of the United States addicted to drugs in 1900.

Now, there were two principal causes of this dramatic level of drug addiction at the turn of the century. The first cause was the use of morphine and its various derivatives in legitimate medical operations. You know as late as 1900, particularly in areas where medical resources were scarce it was not at all uncommon for you to say, let's say you would have appendicitis, you would go into the hospital, and you would get morphine as a pain killer during the operation, you would be given morphine further after the operation and you would come out of the hospital with no appendix but addicted to morphine.

The use of morphine in battlefield operations during the Civil War was so extensive that, by 1880, so many Union veterans were addicted to morphine that the popular press referred to morphinism as the "soldier's disease".

Now, the other fact that I think that is so interesting about drug addiction at the turn of the century, as opposed to today is who the addicts were, because they were the exact opposite of who you would think most likely to be an addict today. If I were to ask you in terms of statistical groups who is most likely to be involved with drugs today, you would say a young person, a male, who lives in the city and who may be a minority group member. That is the exact opposite of who was most likely to be addicted to drugs at the turn of the century.

In terms of statistical groups, who was most likely to be addicted to drugs at the turn of the century? A rural living, middle-aged white woman. The use of morphine in medical operations does not explain the much higher incidence of drug addiction among women. What does is the second cause of the high level of addiction at the turn of the century -- the growth and development of what we now call the "patent medicine" industry.

If you want to see a relatively current portrayal of a woman addicted to patent medicine you might think of Eugene O'Neil's play "A Long Day's Journey Into Night".

Or you could watch "Tombstone," and see Earp's wife addicted to Laudnum.

[hoosier]

Hoosier, assuming your homicide stats are true--not merely made up, then that eliminates one aspect of devastation. Then all you have left is virtually every aspect of attitudes toward morality and behavior--including but not limited to abortion, the mainstreaming of homosexuality, drug use, media bias, corrupt practices in sports, dumbing down of education, etc.

You left out "emancipation" and "women's suffrage" as well as "end of prohibition." And you conveniently elide events like the Black Sox scandal that don't fit your paradigm. But your response is perfect, I wouldn't change a word, since it precisely illustrates the point I was trying to make: some people can't help but interpret change--or history, take your pick--as moral decay. Plato was that way to a degree. So was Rousseau. I guess that means you're in good company, even if your company's a little, uh, OLD.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Hoosier, assuming your homicide stats are true--not merely made up, then that eliminates one aspect of devastation. Then all you have left is virtually every aspect of attitudes toward morality and behavior--including but not limited to abortion, the mainstreaming of homosexuality, drug use, media bias, corrupt practices in sports, dumbing down of education, etc.

You left out "emancipation" and "women's suffrage" as well as "end of prohibition." And you conveniently elide events like the Black Sox scandal that don't fit your paradigm. But your response is perfect, I wouldn't change a word, since it precisely illustrates the point I was trying to make: some people can't help but interpret change--or history, take your pick--as moral decay. Plato was that way to a degree. So was Rousseau. I guess that means you're in good company, even if your company's a little, uh, OLD.

Exactly. I blame the current decline of our civilization on the auto industry.

No one can deny that as auto ownership has grown so have all of the aforementioned problems.

[texaspackerbacker]

Skew and dodge and divert all you want, but America is a different place than it was a generation or two ago. Few would argue that attitudinally and morally, it is worse, and few would argue that it isn't the those dirty words--liberalism and liberals are responsible for the changes.

There's that word again--CHANGE. When a liberal calls for change, what we need to ask is, how much WORSE are things gonna get?

I gave you guys the GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY to DEFEND the fruits of liberalism, and what do you do? Instead of defending those things, you try to shift the blame to ........ whatever. If that doesn't prove that the fundamental tenets of basically everything you guys believe in are INDEFENSIBLE, then I guess nothing will.

[falco]

as i like to say...

blah blah blah

sums up all this bullshit and saves a lot of energy in the process

[TheCheese]

Illegal is illegal. You let one stay and then the rest will follow

You are right about the REST following, so let's take them ALL back. Maybe we can start with YOU and your whole family? Unless you are full blooded native American you are originally not from this land (Im sure you will claim you are part Cherokee or some bullshit). Using your logic means you better start packing your shit in plastic bags the way I see it cuz 400 years in North America aint shit and damn sure doesnt make any European castoffs owners of this land.

I wonder which one of these are your peeps from way back??

What an obscene amount of bull shit logic this is. First of all, he said ILLEGAL, do you know what that means? Hes not talking about the immigrants who came over here legally, ya know, the immigrants who happen to be our fathers or fore fathers, he said illegal, that means against the law. How the fuck can you have an opposing viewpoint of him for embracing the law.

Now, if you would know anything about our history, which doesn't seem like you do, you would know that during the early to mid stages of our country, we were built on immigration, legal immigration mind you. We were a new country that needed low skilled labor workers, a country that was booming especially during the industrial age. The immigrants would come over here LEGALLY, work for a given amount of years, earn a good amount of money and return to their own country at a higher social and economic status. It worked very well, as well as any immigration system has worked in the past.

However, times have changed and America is a different country than what it once was. As before in the past we needed low skilled labor workers, now we need high skilled labor as technology has consistently grown more complex and sophisticated. That means we don't need any more immigrants for the time being because 99% of all the immigrants who come here illegally do not have the education or skill experience that the job force requires. So they are flooding the market on a lower echelon of social stratification that not only hurts our economy, but down right affects our culture simultaneously in a negative way by infusing a high number of people that are not successfully assimilating into the American lifestyle. The same American lifestyle that is the back bone of our country. I truly fail to see how you, or anyone else with your asinine point of view doesn't see this as a problem.

I live in southern California, close to L.A.; so I actually know what I'm talking about because I'm actually living it. I've seen how things have changed in the past 20 years, and no where near for the better. It makes me sick to see these are not the same immigrants that used to come into our country. You will know what I'm talking about when you have 100 or so Mexicans a mile away from your house, protesting our government, waiving their Mexican flags and signs that say all sorts of good stuff like "Breed Them Out" and that they demand rights and citizenship. Well citizenship is not a right, its a privilege, and it's a privilege to live in this damn country. And before you say, "well wah wah thats not fair, not all immigrants are like that," well that may be true, but you would never see this happen 20, 30, or 40 years ago. And the true blue hard working immigrants that come over here to be American are few and far between.

I still can't believe that so many people cannot grasp the concept that the "Commonalities of our Culture are what bind us together." If we can't get enough border agents to secure it, than build the damn wall, for its a border we use to identify our country, or any other country for that matter. Just like your property line is what defines "your" house, would you want people coming in your house to mooch? If not, why? They just want a better life. It's because Mexico's problems is not ours to bear. It is not our problem that Mexico is such a shitty country to its own people, we are not in any way shape or form economically healthy enough to just turn the cheek and say "sure ! come on over guys we will take ya!" Just like you are not economically able to absorb a bum off the street and feed him.

So the next time, you make a smart ass comment to someone who is saying uphold the law, think again. And I hope you read all of this because people like you all to often form an ignorant opinion and never cease to spew forth the bull shit that keeps adding up and up. To the point where other people believe your bull shit, and spew bull shit of their own. If your here or came here legally, good for you, welcome to America. But if you broke the law, thats right, you have to break the law to come here illegally, and currently reside here, not paying the taxes you should be paying, then with the money you do earn, you send back to Mexico ( I work with Moneygram), which is money that should be spent on our economy. That's what our economy runs off, us making money, paying taxes, and spending that money over here, not in another country. This is wrong, and unfair to everyone who considers themselves tax payers.

Secure the border, deport what illegals we can, and severely punish those who hire illegals. These steps should help get us back on track, as well as enlightening the ignorant, misinformed people such as the one I quoted. And one last thing, none of you make this a race issue. It is not a race issue, Mexicans are not a race just like Americans are not a race. Use your fricking heads and see this is a national crisis.

[GoPackGo]

convincing argument^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Tyrone Bigguns]

convincing argument^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Not really. It has so many holes in it i could drive a truck through it.

Since, i know my friends will ask, "tyrone, your full of it, which part is not true?" i'll just address one.

First, i country isn't different today. We do need low skilled labor. The argument is so ludicrous that it defeats itself. If we didnt' need those illegal, low skilled mexicans..why are they here? Surely they couldn't find work.

The simple fact is that we need them. Our service industry depends on them, as does agriculture. It ain't white folks picking veggies..i guarantee you that.

And, if they weren't needed..you think a bunch of white folks would hire them. They are hired because they are needed.

And, btw illegals do pay taxes. This is the biggest canard of them all. They pay payroll taxes (i.e. FICA and Medicare) using either an invalid Social Security number or a Tax Identification Number (TIN), and empirical evidence tends to show that a large fraction of the economic incidence of these taxes falls on workers.

Since 1986, when the Immigration Reform and Control Act set penalties for employers who knowingly hire illegal immigrants, most such workers have been forced to buy fake ID's to get a job.

Some of these same individuals also pay income taxes, assuming their reported adjusted gross incomes are high enough to where they actually have a positive liability.

But even if one is paid “under the table” where neither the employer nor employee report the income to the IRS, other taxes are paid by illegal immigrants. This would include mainly sales taxes on items purchased in most states and localities.

And, let's not forget that many illegals pay into social security and will never receive that benefit (not saying they should). The extent of their contributions to Social Security is striking: the money added up to about 10 percent of last year's surplus - the difference between what the system currently receives in payroll taxes and what it doles out in pension benefits. Moreover, the money paid by illegal workers and their employers is factored into all the Social Security Administration's projections.

While some argue that illegal immigrants do not pay their fair share of taxes compared to the value of government services they receive, this is partially a normative question that needs to be accompanied by more empirical evidence to support or refute. But to answer the question, "Do illegal immigrants pay any taxes?" the answer is clearly yes.

[MadtownPacker]

I live in southern California, close to L.A.; so I actually know what I'm talking about because I'm actually living it. I've seen how things have changed in the past 20 years, and no where near for the better. It makes me sick to see these are not the same immigrants that used to come into our country. You will know what I'm talking about when you have 100 or so Mexicans a mile away from your house, protesting our government, waiving their Mexican flags and signs that say all sorts of good stuff like "Breed Them Out" and that they demand rights and citizenship. Well citizenship is not a right, its a privilege, and it's a privilege to live in this damn country. And before you say, "well wah wah thats not fair, not all immigrants are like that," well that may be true, but you would never see this happen 20, 30, or 40 years ago. And the true blue hard working immigrants that come over here to be American are few and far between.

So the next time, you make a smart ass comment to someone who is saying uphold the law, think again. And I hope you read all of this because people like you all to often form an ignorant opinion and never cease to spew forth the bull shit that keeps adding up and up. To the point where other people believe your bull shit, and spew bull shit of their own. If your here or came here legally, good for you, welcome to America. But if you broke the law, thats right, you have to break the law to come here illegally, and currently reside here, not paying the taxes you should be paying, then with the money you do earn, you send back to Mexico ( I work with Moneygram), which is money that should be spent on our economy. That's what our economy runs off, us making money, paying taxes, and spending that money over here, not in another country. This is wrong, and unfair to everyone who considers themselves tax payers.

Secure the border, deport what illegals we can, and severely punish those who hire illegals. These steps should help get us back on track, as well as enlightening the ignorant, misinformed people such as the one I quoted. And one last thing, none of you make this a race issue. It is not a race issue, Mexicans are not a race just like Americans are not a race. Use your fricking heads and see this is a national crisis.

Man, you are about to feel stupid.

The bottom line is that you didnt originate from here moron. Without immigration you yourself admitted you would not be here. I dont need to comment anymore about this.

As for me being ignorant or whatever the fuck you said I think I might have some experience with illegals. I was born and have lived in central California all my life. I have picked grapes along side many of those people you want thrown out. My Dad was one of those immigrants that came here to work and not fuck the US up. He is legal now and has been since the 70s. I do agree, many of today's illegals are not here to make it better only to suck up the resources. They can go. People that come here to better themselves, illegal or not are what AMERICA is all about.

In case I didnt make it clear enough for a social genius such as yourself I am of Mexican ancestry. You might see 100 Mexicans by your house on protest day but that would just be a family reunion for me.

And if you are so fucking high and mighty why dont you find a job that doesnt help send all that money out of the country???

[TheCheese]

convincing argument^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Not really. It has so many holes in it i could drive a truck through it.

Since, i know my friends will ask, "tyrone, your full of it, which part is not true?" i'll just address one.

First, i country isn't different today. We do need low skilled labor. The argument is so ludicrous that it defeats itself. If we didnt' need those illegal, low skilled mexicans..why are they here? Surely they couldn't find work.

The simple fact is that we need them. Our service industry depends on them, as does agriculture. It ain't white folks picking veggies..i guarantee you that.

And, if they weren't needed..you think a bunch of white folks would hire them. They are hired because they are needed.

And, btw illegals do pay taxes. This is the biggest canard of them all. They pay payroll taxes (i.e. FICA and Medicare) using either an invalid Social Security number or a Tax Identification Number (TIN), and empirical evidence tends to show that a large fraction of the economic incidence of these taxes falls on workers.

Since 1986, when the Immigration Reform and Control Act set penalties for employers who knowingly hire illegal immigrants, most such workers have been forced to buy fake ID's to get a job.

Some of these same individuals also pay income taxes, assuming their reported adjusted gross incomes are high enough to where they actually have a positive liability.

But even if one is paid “under the table” where neither the employer nor employee report the income to the IRS, other taxes are paid by illegal immigrants. This would include mainly sales taxes on items purchased in most states and localities.

And, let's not forget that many illegals pay into social security and will never receive that benefit (not saying they should). The extent of their contributions to Social Security is striking: the money added up to about 10 percent of last year's surplus - the difference between what the system currently receives in payroll taxes and what it doles out in pension benefits. Moreover, the money paid by illegal workers and their employers is factored into all the Social Security Administration's projections.

While some argue that illegal immigrants do not pay their fair share of taxes compared to the value of government services they receive, this is partially a normative question that needs to be accompanied by more empirical evidence to support or refute. But to answer the question, "Do illegal immigrants pay any taxes?" the answer is clearly yes.

Wow, your inaccurate, foolish, almost corrupt point of view really just pissed me off. This is why we have such a serious fucking problem because people like you don't actually thoroughly analyze the grand scheme of things and understand why things work the way they work and just speak out solely for the purpose or the attention, hoping no one calls you out on your amazingly large steaming pile of dog shit you call an argument. I recommend you really take some time and study the subject rather than rehash boring, old generic, devil's advocate points of view that your non-conformist hippy parents brain washed your mind with.

And do yourself a favor and re read my post, this time carefully, and if you did read the whole thing, this is the best you got? To argue with me something I never actually stated? How sad. I never said they didn't pay taxes, I said they didn't pay the right taxes, which includes all the taxes you, me and everyone else is paying. Everyone knows illegals pay some taxes, way to go on wasting time and space on this thread.

Now lets shoot down your pathetic, elementary attempt at an actual argument. Pay attention now.

You say that we need Illegal immigrants to do the ever so shrinking low labor jobs of America. We need them? We can't live without them? What the fuck kind of absurd, down right ridiculous point of view is this? During the periods of 1925 and 1965, before the immigration bill of 1965 was passed, we actually had a net emigration period OUT of the United States. Gee genius, I wonder who picked our crops, I wonder who cleaned our houses, I wonder who landscaped our yards. Hmmm, maybe WE did? Just like we always have.

You see Americans will do the jobs that Illegals do, because we always have, however we won't do jobs Illegals do for that wage, because it is self deprivation allowing yourself to be exploited like that by the corporations that hire illegals. Do you understand? I hope you do, because I enjoy educating our youth. Now lets say what the impact would be if we cracked down on our corporations from hiring Illegals. Well they would have to pay Americans a fair wage to do the job, which means more taxes would be paid from a legit, authorized check, our own people would be netting more income, therefore spending more money on our economy, not Mexico's. All this for paying maybe a buck or too more for produce products. Gee what a concept isn't it? On to your next joke.

Going back to you saying they do pay some taxes, we both stipulate on this postulation. However, what I find truly grotesque is that you defended Illegals saying they do pay taxes because some of them obtain fraudulent social security numbers. Well holy shit Maverick I wonder where they get these numbers. They Steal them from us ! Or even worse, they take their anchor babies SSN and use it, fuck up the credit, then that kid's credit is fucked up for life. How the fuck is this ok? How can you defend this? Answer my questions, maybe theres something I'm missing or you're just fucking with us and joking around because any logical thinking person in their right mind would not think this is ok, under any circumstances what so ever.

Oh by the way, it is a fact that the little amount of taxes they do pay does not equal near the amount of government services they use such as medical expenses, WIC, welfare, education, not to mention all the car accidents and property damage because they don't have insurance. Oh and for your "partially normative question," according to the Census Bureau data, the average illegal immigrant family uses $2,700/year more in services than it pays in taxes. In 2002, this led to a $10.4 billion deficit on the federal budget. Now what in the hell is so normative about that? That was in 2002 mind you, and it's only gotten exponentially worse. You do the math, and make a proper objective opinion on it and not argue with me just to not lose, you already lost and the more i type the more ridiculous you look.

Now I just systematically destroyed your argument with logic and facts. And not one part of your post the whole thing. If you do respond to this, I expect for you to thank me for further informing and educating on this subject that is so close to the heart of many Americans. Seriously, come at me with facts and logic next time, not a on the spot thought up spew of bull shit that is easily shot down by facts. Oh and speaking of statistics, heres a little more from the 2006 1st quarter INS/FBI Statistical Report, that focus on illegal immigrants in general.




“12 Americans are murdered every day by illegal aliens. (that’s more than 21,900 murders by illegal aliens since September 11, 2001)

13 people per day are killed by illegal immigrants who drive under the influence of drugs or alcohol. An additional 4,745 premature deaths per year.

62% of all “undocumented immigrants” in the United States are working for cash and not paying taxes, predominantly illegal aliens, working without a green card.

95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.

83% of warrants for murder in Phoenix are for illegal aliens.

86% of warrants for murder in Albuquerque are for illegal aliens.

75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles, Phoenix, and Albuquerque are illegal aliens.

More than 380,000 “anchor babies” born in the United States in 2005 were to parents who are illegal aliens; making those 380,000 babies automatically U.S. citizens. 97.2% of all costs incurred from those births were paid by the American taxpayer.

More than 66% of all births in California are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal, whose births were paid for by taxpayers.

24.9% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.

40.1% of all inmates in Arizona detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.

48.2% of all inmates in New Mexico detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.

29% (630,000) of the inmates in all state and federal prisons are illegal aliens—at a cost of $1.6 billion annually.

More than 53% of all investigated burglaries reported in California, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona, and Texas are perpetrated by illegal aliens.

More than half of all gang members in Los Angeles are illegal aliens from south of the border.

More than 43% of all Food Stamps issued are to illegal aliens.

More than 41% of all unemployment checks issued in the United States are to illegal aliens.

58% of all welfare payments in the United States are issued to illegal aliens.

Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties in the United States are illegal aliens.

14 out of 31 TV stations in L.A. are Spanish-only.

16 out of 28 TV stations in Phoenix are Spanish only.

15 out of 24 TV stations in Albuquerque are Spanish-only.

More than 34% of Arizona students in grades 1-12 are illegal aliens.

More than 24% of Arizona students in grades 1-12 are non-English speaking.

More than 39% of California students in grades 1-12 are illegal aliens.

More than 42% of California students in grades 1-12 are non-English speaking.

In Los Angeles County, 5.1 million people speak English and 3.9 million speak Spanish.

More than 71% of all apprehended cars stolen in 2005 in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, and California were stolen by illegal aliens or transport “coyotes.”

47% of cited/stopped drivers in California have no license, no insurance, and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 47%, 92% are illegal aliens.

63% of cited/stopped drivers in Arizona have no license, no insurance, and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 63%, 97% are illegal aliens.

66% of cited/stopped drivers in New Mexico have no license, no insurance, and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 66%, 98% are illegal aliens.

Less than 2% of illegal aliens in the United States are picking crops, but 41% are on welfare.

Over 70% of the United States annual population growth (and over 90% of California, Florida, and New York) results from illegal immigration, at a cost of nearly $68,000,000,000.00 annually.”

[TheCheese]

I live in southern California, close to L.A.; so I actually know what I'm talking about because I'm actually living it. I've seen how things have changed in the past 20 years, and no where near for the better. It makes me sick to see these are not the same immigrants that used to come into our country. You will know what I'm talking about when you have 100 or so Mexicans a mile away from your house, protesting our government, waiving their Mexican flags and signs that say all sorts of good stuff like "Breed Them Out" and that they demand rights and citizenship. Well citizenship is not a right, its a privilege, and it's a privilege to live in this damn country. And before you say, "well wah wah thats not fair, not all immigrants are like that," well that may be true, but you would never see this happen 20, 30, or 40 years ago. And the true blue hard working immigrants that come over here to be American are few and far between.

So the next time, you make a smart ass comment to someone who is saying uphold the law, think again. And I hope you read all of this because people like you all to often form an ignorant opinion and never cease to spew forth the bull shit that keeps adding up and up. To the point where other people believe your bull shit, and spew bull shit of their own. If your here or came here legally, good for you, welcome to America. But if you broke the law, thats right, you have to break the law to come here illegally, and currently reside here, not paying the taxes you should be paying, then with the money you do earn, you send back to Mexico ( I work with Moneygram), which is money that should be spent on our economy. That's what our economy runs off, us making money, paying taxes, and spending that money over here, not in another country. This is wrong, and unfair to everyone who considers themselves tax payers.

Secure the border, deport what illegals we can, and severely punish those who hire illegals. These steps should help get us back on track, as well as enlightening the ignorant, misinformed people such as the one I quoted. And one last thing, none of you make this a race issue. It is not a race issue, Mexicans are not a race just like Americans are not a race. Use your fricking heads and see this is a national crisis.

Man, you are about to feel stupid.

The bottom line is that you didnt originate from here moron. Without immigration you yourself admitted you would not be here. I dont need to comment anymore about this.

Where the fuck did you hear me complain about LEGAL immigration, I'm talking about ILLEGAL immigration, how the fuck is this so hard to understand? Seriously what do I have to do? Did you see how many times I had the word illegal in my post? Did you read the closing paragraph? Or did your fury and agitation from my personal insults simply override your ability to thoroughly read my post? Of course we are all immigrant sons and daughter passed down the generations, This is still a relatively new country, inspector gadget, what the fuck do you expect? My point is that we are not that country anymore, and we can't afford to be that anymore. How is this incorrect? Seriously, what the fuck are you thinking? We cannot afford the huge masses that come over here ILLEGALLY. See the word ILLEGALLY? It's like LEGALLY except with a IL in front of it, meaning it is not legal or the opposite of legal.

As for me being ignorant or whatever the fuck you said I think I might have some experience with illegals. I was born and have lived in central California all my life. I have picked grapes along side many of those people you want thrown out. My Dad was one of those immigrants that came here to work and not fuck the US up. He is legal now and has been since the 70s. I do agree, many of today's illegals are not here to make it better only to suck up the resources. They can go. People that come here to better themselves, illegal or not are what AMERICA is all about.

For the stuff underlined, I already stated this in my post that you should of read, what the fuck are you arguing about here? You agree with me, congratulations, logic is here with you on this point. Now this is where you fuck up here with the stuff in bold italics, if America is about people coming over here ILLEGALLY, then why the fuck is it ILLEGAL? That was a nice try though, I sense good will somewhere in your clouded, biased judgment.

In case I didnt make it clear enough for a social genius such as yourself I am of Mexican ancestry. You might see 100 Mexicans by your house on protest day but that would just be a family reunion for me.

I don't understand your point. Why are you telling me this? Is it because you are trying to gain ethical appeal? I told you this isn't a race issue. Your ethnicity is none of my business. I only care that you are American, which you are.

And if you are so fucking high and mighty why dont you find a job that doesnt help send all that money out of the country???

Ahh the disadvantages of my work, working WITH, not FOR moneygram is one of the many aspects of my job, unfortunately it is one that also is alarming at times when reviewing the transfer reports and seeing how much money is sent south of the border.

[MadtownPacker]

[Zool]

Funny stuff. So because the native Americans didn't have laws against Europeans migrating here, that makes it legal?

By that fucking genius logic, all Mexicans should be legals. Who do you think populated the entirety of the southwestern US before we got here? Just because we drew a fucking line and said "this is where our shit ends" that makes it right?