OFFICIAL BRETT THE LIVING LEGEND THREAD

[Fritz]

That's putting a finger on it: decision making.

But what makes Favre so freakin' aggravating - those stupid, stupid interceptions - is also what makes him great at other times - those improbable, astounding bullets that he fits between three defenders.

My nature is to be more conservative, so I prefer Rodgers's style. I think it translates into more wins in the end.

But you can't be all one way or the other and succeed. You have to have elements of both for a QB to be successful. A QB who only ever dumps it off and always plays it safe isn't going to make it big, I don't think. Nor can a guy who always, always risks everything.

[Scott Campbell]

For as far back as I can remember, there were always a couple of games per year that Favre would play so horribly in that the team had no chance to win. Rodgers is not that type of QB.

Last year Favre played more like Rodgers than like Favre. Until that last play.

[Gunakor]

So Rodgers is excused on the fumble, you say, because we would of punted and lost anyways? That's teh defense your throwing up? Okay then, then how was favre's int the reason they lost the game? They didn't score because of it, and they had to drive the length of the field in OT without favre ever touching the ball. So favre's was "far worse?" They were on the edge, and thats being friendly, of Longwells range. Favres team was fumbling the ball away every drive in the second half. Favre's coaching staff just screwed up on the play prior putting them IN the passing situation to begin with (because as longwell said, it was out of his range after the penalty). Favre's OL was letting him get pounded, a saints player got fined for an illegal hit on Favre. The saints were litterally detroying #4 in a fist fight using methods that are against the NFL rulebook.

And he kept getting back up, kept fight, and he willed that team to stay in that game. As much credit as you can give Rodgers for "bringing us back", you should be giving favre just as much credit for what he did for that team.

Oh, so it ended with an int? No, no it didn't. The other team still had to march what, 60, 70 yards? Meanwhile, rodgers fumble was scooped up and ran into the endzone. I am not going to sit here and debate which turnover was worse. Favre's worst enemy came back to bite him, and that is trying to force a play that isn't there. Not that I can blame him - it wasn't as if his offense did ANYTHING to help him all game.

Rodger's worst enemy came back to bite him as well, and that is holding the ball too long and being indecisive with the clock ticking. Thats not to say either QB is bad - thats clearly not the case. If they were bad QB's we wouldn't even be having this discussion. They both have faults at this point, and until rodgers can prove, consistently, that he can actually feel the pressure and get rid of the ball, how can you then turn around and say that last year favre's play was "the game".

Rodgers directly lead to a loss. Favre's lead to the saints needing to earn a fictory by driving the field against a defense that had done a pretty decent job.

I would argue both Rodgers and Favre put up pretty astounding play in the playoffs, and both made crucial mistakes at the end. Favre played like a warrior for his team, Rodgers played calm under the pressure until the final play.

Arguing which was worse isn't worth the effort. they both failed to get it done with the game on the line. THAT is the bottom line. This has nothing to do with who I like more (trust me, I am really happy to have AR as our QB) - but both made mistakes in crunch time.

"oh waht about the play before with the no helmet to helmet call!" - What about the play prior for favre where his coaches screwed the pooch with 12 men in the huddle?"

It's a team game, and I find it hard pressed you can place blame for teh loss in the last playoffs solely on favre or soley on rodgers. Favre didn't turn it over 6 times, rodgers didn't get push down by fitz twice for big plays either. It's a team game, and both teams lost as a team.

Wow, that's a terribly long post all based on a complete misunderstanding of what I said, using an example I had never and would never consider.

First, let's start out with a basic understanding of the fact that I could give 2 shits about what Favre did or did not do in January against the Saints. He's wearing a purple jersey, he's playing against players wearing black jerseys, there wasn't a green jersey on the field. I don't care one way or the other about that game. My argument and comparison was to the Giants game or the Eagles game. Games that Favre lost in OT for the only team on the planet that matters in regards to my post. Never once did I mention anything about the Vikings/Saints game.

Second, the argument was about different standards being applied to Favre and Rodgers. I admitted that this was the case, and explained why I thought that difference in expectation was legitimate. They are held to different standards.

His fumble was no different than any of Favre's INT's. I never said that it was.

Favre's turnovers were routinely explained away by people like you by saying Favre was simply trying to make a play to win the game. Now you imply that Rodgers "choked" but in reality it's no different than Favre's season killing INT's where he was just trying to win the game, right?

See, I was using Merlins own logic. Now, either you see it your way, and Rodgers is excused for his fumble because Favre was excused for all of his INT's (because both were just trying to make a play to win the game), or you see it the other way and blame Rodgers for his fumble but also hold Favre accountable for all the interceptions he threw (because both lost the game). Either way, they're the same. Except they're not, at least in the eyes of some. The double standards, the hypocrisy swings both ways. I was merely pointing that out for our friend Merlin.

He hangs onto the ball too long (which is what he does) and instead of just going down and securing the ball, he fumbles it, game over but he didn't choke?

Well he was just trying to make a play, just like Favre was. Right?

The rest of your post goes on and on about that Saints game where Favre was getting destroyed by the Saints. Again, I could care less. Nothing Favre did or didn't do in that game matters one bit to me. So the Saints still had to march down the field, big deal. The Giants didn't. The Giants didnt' even need a first down. Favre's INT lost that game for us because it happend IN field goal range for New York in sudden death overtime. And what's worse about it is that he wasn't hurried, pressured, forced... He was standing all by himself with a clear line of sight to an open Donald Driver and threw one of the most god awful throws at one of the most critical moments of his entire career. It most certainly led directly to the loss. It was the loss.

[Scott Campbell]

Rodgers fumble was the result of a blown protection, and an untouched blitzer nailing him. Favre's play was just an unforced brain fart.

[Fritz]

Rodgers fumble was the result of a blown protection, and an untouched blitzer nailing him. Favre's play was just an unforced brain fart.

This brings up an interesting question: is there such a thing as a forced brain fart?

[swede]

Rodgers fumble was the result of a blown protection, and an untouched blitzer nailing him. Favre's play was just an unforced brain fart.

This brings up an interesting question: is there such a thing as a forced brain fart?

A cerebral emission compelled?
A neural compulsion expelled?

When one's brain isn't working
Disaster is lurking

And if someone made you
Ignore brains the Lord gave you

Thus how the mighty are felled.

[MJZiggy]

Rodgers fumble was the result of a blown protection, and an untouched blitzer nailing him. Favre's play was just an unforced brain fart.

This brings up an interesting question: is there such a thing as a forced brain fart?

I suppose if you get hit hard enough.

[gex]

Rodgers didn't choke the game away? He brought us back from a deficit? A deficit his play put us in?

He is better than Favre if he wins more than one championship?

Did anyone watch the only playoff game we were in against Arizona?

He hangs onto the ball too long (which is what he does) and instead of just going down and securing the ball, he fumbles it, game over but he didn't choke?

WOW, talk about homerism. Rodgers has been in 1, count them 1 playoff game and he isn't solely responsible for the loss but Favre is for all of his playoff losses? ARE YOU SERIOUS?

It's funny watching a bunch of haters try and justify to themselves by conveniently applying two different standards to our former and current QB's. You may not like Favre now but I promise you that all those years he was winning games for us, your attitude was a lot different.

I have no patience for the double standards and/or the hypocrisy. This is the mindless crap that keeps people from coming back here. It's one thing to state opinion, it's entirely another to have an opinion that has no supporting evidence unless you really slant reality to make it fit.

That and an unhealthy and freakish NEED to constantly rehash to each other how they are still upset that Brett left us.
Like anyone who reads these boards doesnt know how Sc or Harrell feel

[Gunakor]

I'm sure everybody knows how everybody feels by now. Yet here we are, 284 pages into this thread. And everybody - even you Gex - is still commenting in it.

I see more double standards, more hypocrisy. Like those with an unhealthy freakish need to defend Favre calling his detractors out for an unhealthy freakish need to bash him. And vice versa.

Either everybody is at fault or nobody is.

At least it's primarily kept to this one thread, so you can't even get pissed about it. This isn't a Favre worship thread or a Favre bashing thread. It's just a Favre thread. You don't like the tone of the discussion, stay out of the thread. You know what to expect by now.

[Scott Campbell]

Like anyone who reads these boards doesnt know how Sc or Harrell feel

Euphoric.

[Fritz]

I wonder how that team is shaping up. Are the Williamses showing their age? How old is that team? How good are their young offensive lineman, like Loadholt? Will AP slow down any time soon?

We'll see, I suppose. I am hoping, if the Pack can stay healthy, that these waves of defensive lineman can provide a little more pressure on that Minnesota QB this year. And that if Jones stays healthy and improves, he can add to it.

[mngolf19]

I wonder how that team is shaping up. Are the Williamses showing their age? How old is that team? How good are their young offensive lineman, like Loadholt? Will AP slow down any time soon?

We'll see, I suppose. I am hoping, if the Pack can stay healthy, that these waves of defensive lineman can provide a little more pressure on that Minnesota QB this year. And that if Jones stays healthy and improves, he can add to it.

Kevin is not old, so no age to show other than being in his prime. Pat plays a third of the downs so while that's an indictment on his age, he has limited affect on the overall play of the defense.

As for the OL, since Loadholt was a rookie last year and Sullivan was playing for the first time, then they can only get better. The rest are coming off of injuries of one type or another. Chilly is saying that Hutch and Herrera we're especially limited last year due to their injuries and expects much greater things out of them this time.

[pbmax]

Rodgers didn't choke the game away? He brought us back from a deficit? A deficit his play put us in?

You must have gone for a long bathroom break and missed being down by 17 points.

He is better than Favre if he wins more than one championship?

You don't think a theoretical 2 time Super Bowl winner qualifies for the debate?

He hangs onto the ball too long (which is what he does) and instead of just going down and securing the ball, he fumbles it, game over but he didn't choke?

Its a qualitatively different play than running free, having two options (run or pass to wheel route) and choosing to throw back across the field. A better comparison was Rodger's early INT and Favre's last pass. Bonus point: Rodgers will get better. Favre has been the same for a decade.

WOW, talk about homerism. Rodgers has been in 1, count them 1 playoff game and he isn't solely responsible for the loss but Favre is for all of his playoff losses?  ARE YOU SERIOUS?

No one seriously claims Favre is responsible for ALL playoff losses. But that would be true for the most of the recent ones.

It's funny watching a bunch of haters try and justify to themselves by conveniently applying two different standards to our former and current QB's. You may not like Favre now but I promise you that all those years he was winning games for us, your attitude was a lot different.

No it hasn't. Favre had correctable flaws that he failed to improve on since Homgrem left. Rodgers gives every indication of getting better.

I have no patience for the double standards and/or the hypocrisy. This is the mindless crap that keeps people from coming back here. It's one thing to state opinion, it's entirely another to have an opinion that has no supporting evidence unless you really slant reality to make it fit.

Blasting people for their opinions, whether you think they are based on facts or not is a losing proposition. It would be more effective to supply the facts that you think people are ignoring.

[Zool]

Sorry PB but replying to Merlin is a few minutes of your life you can never get back.

[Fritz]

Favre was greatly admired and loved here, but it is true there were whispers - nay, open talk - of his inability to reign himself in at crucial times. After the Giants game there was much gnashing of teeth over that last interception.

And there was lively discussion on this very board - a couple years before Favre "retired" - about Favre's seeming inability to make better decisions with age. Many fans felt, in the mid nineties, that as the kid got older and wiser he'd be greater and greater cuz he'd learn to reign it in at the right times, and thus had the potential to become the best ever.

Alas, it was not to be. Fave is what he is and he stayed that way. His gunslinger mentality won some games and gasps of admiration, and no one doubts that, but as his career wore on the risky dumb passes became, for me, more difficult to accept.