Is Aaron Rodgers more of the problem than we might think?

[pbmax]

I'd buy this line of thinking more if the first example wasn't Rodgers basically making a joke that McCarthy is tough to understand with his Pittsburgh accent and that it happened on just one play.

Otherwise, I am forced to rely on that tidbit signaling that Rodgers now holds a deep seated grudge against M3 for demoting his friend.

This is more of the same as the 2007 season and conference championship game. The QB is changing the calls, is having a disastrous time of it, and so far has not relented as much as the coach wants.

[mraynrand]

If there is a 'communication problem' it better get solved, because the consequences could be disastrous. I saw Tolzien taking snaps on the sideline after the game was out of hand in AZ (first turnover for TD I think?). But then Rodgers runs out there. Why? It's 31-0 and the game is over. Whose bright idea was it to get Rodgers hammered even more? Rodgers was pretty far away from Stubby down the sidelines when he sprinted on the field. The strategy after 31-0 - the personnel, the play calling, etc. was absurd.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I'd buy this line of thinking more if the first example wasn't Rodgers basically making a joke that McCarthy is tough to understand with his Pittsburgh accent and that it happened on just one play.

Otherwise, I am forced to rely on that tidbit signaling that Rodgers now holds a deep seated grudge against M3 for demoting his friend.

This is more of the same as the 2007 season and conference championship game. The QB is changing the calls, is having a disastrous time of it, and so far has not relented as much as the coach wants.

At some point for us it becomes nothing more but speculation. I'm curious what you think about making changes at this point in the game. You've talked about doing away with the hurry up and doing less shotgun, more under center and pistol. I'd like to see them use a 6th Olineman more. Do you think it's feasible at this late date to install these types of changes? Or, is harping on "execution" the only tactic now that is practical?

[Maxie the Taxi]

If there is a 'communication problem' it better get solved, because the consequences could be disastrous. I saw Tolzien taking snaps on the sideline after the game was out of hand in AZ (first turnover for TD I think?). But then Rodgers runs out there. Why? It's 31-0 and the game is over. Whose bright idea was it to get Rodgers hammered even more? Rodgers was pretty far away from Stubby down the sidelines when he sprinted on the field. The strategy after 31-0 - the personnel, the play calling, etc. was absurd.

Another indication of friction or NON-communication between Stubby and Arod?

[mraynrand]

Another indication of friction or NON-communication between Stubby and Arod?

I saw it as 'screw it, I'm going back in.' I could be wrong but regardless, it was pretty damn stupid, considering Rodgers got clobbered again. After 31-0, they should have Tolzien in there dumping off short passes, screens, draws, and running the ball. Run the clock out and get the hell out of there.

[hoosier]

Another indication of friction or NON-communication between Stubby and Arod?

Conflict between two strong personalities. I don't see MM as someone who wants to be worshipped as a hero. For whatever reason or reasons, the offense as it was reconfigured after the Seattle debacle just wasn't working. Injuries may have played some role but do not explain everything. As someone said earlier, the loss of Nelson alone doesn't explain how the most explosive offense in the league suddenly becomes one of the slowest and largely inept. So MM felt that he had to make a change. In his place I probably would have reached the same conclusion. Rodgers seems to be chaffing at the change. Is it because he was close with Clements or because he had more autonomy under Clements, or both? Whatever the case, it is a bit surprising to see the team's leader pouting in his press conference, especially when a decent portion of the offense's problems could reasonably be attributed to his performance.

[mraynrand]

I wouldn't be surprised if Rodgers has progressed to the point where he thinks he knows better than Stubby. He's probably much brighter than Stubby in pure candle-power, and now has played enough that he has tons of experience and probably wants to run things his way. But even so, you still have to rely on the coaching and the game plan, or the continuity can fall apart, especially when you are trotting in replacement O-linemen all over the place.

[pbmax]

At some point for us it becomes nothing more but speculation. I'm curious what you think about making changes at this point in the game. You've talked about doing away with the hurry up and doing less shotgun, more under center and pistol. I'd like to see them use a 6th Olineman more. Do you think it's feasible at this late date to install these types of changes? Or, is harping on "execution" the only tactic now that is practical?

Putting aside injuries, I still think they need to move in that direction given their performance. Quarless helps. However, the running game has been very hot and cold all year and at some point during a bad run game they need to pass. So it helps only to protect the QB and the defense to some degree. The run game itself isn't a weapon in and of itself, its almost limited to a break your tendency plan.

I think M3 gets the need because Kuhn's snaps as FB are way up since he took control. I bet Q gets more time as well as he comes up to speed (if there are enough games left).

Hell, I might go full Seattle pre2015 and San Fran and stick both FBs out there.

But, and you knew this was coming, what do you do with two backup tackles in the game?

There are just too many broken pieces to construct a model of a good offense.

[Rutnstrut]

I do think most of the problem this year is something with Rodgers. Remember most here always claimed we always have a good chance if Rodgers is on the field. Well either he is hurt, he is pouting, or he is just not as good as we thought. I would say it's part of all three.

[pbmax]

I wouldn't be surprised if Rodgers has progressed to the point where he thinks he knows better than Stubby. He's probably much brighter than Stubby in pure candle-power, and now has played enough that he has tons of experience and probably wants to run things his way. But even so, you still have to rely on the coaching and the game plan, or the continuity can fall apart, especially when you are trotting in replacement O-linemen all over the place.

I think he is there. But we are focused too much on which coach he is mad at.

Does anyone think he was happy with the offensive plan before M3 took play calling back? He was just as peeved then.

I think its HIS version of the offense that is having the worst year. And providing some of the better highlights. Its Brett circa 2007 all over again.

[Patler]

I wouldn't be surprised if Rodgers has progressed to the point where he thinks he knows better than Stubby. He's probably much brighter than Stubby in pure candle-power, and now has played enough that he has tons of experience and probably wants to run things his way.

That's what I have been wondering for a while now. Almost putting himself on a different plane from the rest of the team. I think there is a tendency for experienced QB's to do that, partly because all of a sudden they find themselves playing with a team full of guys 10 years or more younger than they are.

AR has a tendency to say, "I am so proud of so-and-so" when a younger player has a good game. At times it comes across like a parent talking about their child, not one team mate talking about another.

To be honest, this rehtoric about Janis, Abrederis, Rodgers, Adams etc. having to earn AR's trust before they can play is getting old. Coaches say it, AR says it, other players say it and the subject players themselves say it. It might be true, just as it is with other QBs, but it is starting to come across as if AR has the ultimate say over who plays and how much they play. It's almost like a three step process (playbook, coaches, AR) with AR being the final decision maker.

During one of Favre's later years, they had a season when WR after WR was injured. At one time or another something like 10 different WRs were on the roster and played. Not many had the chance to earn Favre's trust, but no one talked about that.

I can see where a team of 60 guys might have a bunch who feel AR is putting himself above the team with his comments.

[smuggler]

The reality is that the team's talent level is weak compared to 2011 wrt TE/WR. Up until now, the team has relied on the passing game and that is not an option this season. The receiver depth until this point has mitigated Rodgers' flaw of holding the ball too long and helped the pass blocking look better than it ever truly was.

Now the pass blocking looks like shit and Rodgers' flaw is more obvious. Are we really going to point the finger at Rodgers here? To me, it's obvious. Fix the talent in the receiving corps and the issue is resolved. People deny this answer because people are generally stupid and will reject obvious conclusions if they're undesirable.

Specifically it's optimistic to put blame on Rodgers because that would mean things could somehow change all of a sudden and everything would be right. The reality? The fix cannot be applied in this season and we have no hope in the playoffs, but that's tough shit.

[Patler]

The reality is that the team's talent level is weak compared to 2011 wrt TE/WR. Up until now, the team has relied on the passing game and that is not an option this season. The receiver depth until this point has mitigated Rodgers' flaw of holding the ball too long and helped the pass blocking look better than it ever truly was.

Now the pass blocking looks like shit and Rodgers' flaw is more obvious. Are we really going to point the finger at Rodgers here? To me, it's obvious. Fix the talent in the receiving corps and the issue is resolved. People don't like that answer because it can't be accomplished this season, but that's tough shit.

I don't know, I think you could say it is just as obvious that if you fix Rodgers unusual for him accuracy issues, decision making and timid approach, then the WR issues wouldn't show up nearly so much.

[smuggler]

There are a few throws each game where you can see his accuracy is off, no doubt.

Accuracy is related to being hit 17 times a game. There has never been a QB to play this game that will play well being hit that often. They will always play better not being hit. The idea that there is a magical wizard quarterback that is blessed from above and always gets the job done no matter the supporting cast and no matter how the opposing team plays is a dream from the minds of simple fucking retards.

Correct the fact that none of the receivers can get open in man coverage, then Rodgers can throw the ball to an open receiver (the only way he'll ever regularly throw to a guy that's completely covered is if you're asleep and you're dreaming of the Packers), before the pocket falls apart, then he's not hit. Accuracy problem solved.

And, personally, I don't think the accuracy has been altogether that bad. As I conceded, there are throws that he has missed he usually makes. And, sure, his completion percentage is down, but his throw-aways (the thing everyone always begs for him to do) are way up this year, and so are passes that he has to deliberately throw into a difficult catch opportunity because a throw on-target would be contested by a defender. That's going to put completion percentage down.

[Patler]

There are a few throws each game where you can see his accuracy is off, no doubt.

Accuracy is related to being hit 17 times a game. There has never been a QB to play this game that will play well being hit that often. They will always play better not being hit. The idea that there is a magical wizard quarterback that is blessed from above and always gets the job done no matter the supporting cast and no matter how the opposing team plays is a dream from the minds of simple fucking retards.

Correct the fact that none of the receivers can get open in man coverage, then Rodgers can throw the ball to an open receiver (the only way he'll ever regularly throw to a guy that's completely covered is if you're asleep and you're dreaming of the Packers), then he's not hit. Accuracy problem solved.

I don't think the accuracy has been altogether that bad. Sure, his completion percentage is down, but his throw-aways (the thing everyone always begs for him to do) are way up this year, and so are passes that he has to deliberately throw into a difficult catch opportunity because a throw on-target would be contested. That's going to put completion percentage down.

Except that his accuracy was off and talked about even in training camp this year to the point that Rodgers was showing frustration with himself in throwing interceptions in practice (even to the rookie DBs). An excuse was fabricated about him simply throwing passes he normally wouldn't, to see how WRs handled it, giving them a chance to "earn his trust." Rodgers even said it once, which I thought was a flimsy excuse on his part. I started out the season looking for accuracy issues with Rodgers, I noted some questions about it even early in the season when they were winning and he wasn't being hit. I think it has gotten worse, but the accuracy issues were there before the other problems. Very early I questioned whether Rodgers was just having an off year.