Is Aaron Rodgers even good anymore?

[mraynrand]

Nice pivot. Your claim was that Aaron Rodgers was not "the same quality of person". Now you explain away his lecherous behavior as simply something stupid.

As a teammate, Favre was quite detached from most of the younger players in his later years in Green Bay to the point that he was reported to have his own locker room. The routine offseason retirements didn't add to the perception that he was giving his all, either. Then there were the cold games where he just checked out. Yet he played that one magical season with the Vikings deep in his career that re-kindled the Favre of yore in the hearts of his most ardent supporters.

They've both had long careers with a lot of success and their share of warts. It is just Rodgers's time to get brought down a peg.

You first have to tear a person down to rebuild them.

LaFleur to Rodgers:
“The first and last words coming out of your filthy sewer will be ‘Yes Sir.’ Do you hear me?”
“Yes sir!”
“Bullshit!! I can’t hear you!”
“YES SIR!!!”

[Fritz]

Nice pivot. Your claim was that Aaron Rodgers was not "the same quality of person". Now you explain away his lecherous behavior as simply something stupid.

As a teammate, Favre was quite detached from most of the younger players in his later years in Green Bay to the point that he was reported to have his own locker room. The routine offseason retirements didn't add to the perception that he was giving his all, either. Then there were the cold games where he just checked out. Yet he played that one magical season with the Vikings deep in his career that re-kindled the Favre of yore in the hearts of his most ardent supporters.

They've both had long careers with a lot of success and their share of warts. It is just Rodgers's time to get brought down a peg.

A peg? C'mon, Denver, don't be so modest. Let's burn the whole thing down!

Or we could go to another thread.

I suspect there's some truth to what was written, a fair amount that was just axe-grinding, and the very real conclusion that it was no single person's fault.

Though I am tempted to simply blame Murphy.

[falco]

Nice pivot. Your claim was that Aaron Rodgers was not "the same quality of person". Now you explain away his lecherous behavior as simply something stupid.

Your first mistake was expecting logic from woodbuck... at best you'll get a nonsensical rant with a tinge of bigotry.

[Bretsky]

Let's call a spade a spade. Sometimes the truth is painful to acknowledge. I am a huge fan of AROD as a player.

But read in between the lines and listen tot e Packer Beat guys who cover the team on and off the record. Here are some captain obvious viewpoints

Rodgers is smug. He's very intelligent but perhaps to a fault. And he's kind of an asshole as teammate to many. He's roll his eyes, call out players, and dress them down occasionally in practices. He's a know it all who a few teammates embrace but many do not. Brett Favre was embraced by all his teammates untl he really got old and was a generation ahead of the entire team. Rodgers is not there. Watch the mannerisms after each of them throw TD's. Rodgers is far better than Favre, but he's no Favre as a leader. It got to some point where Rodgers no longer respected McCarthy as a coach, changed plays at will, and avoided throwing many many slants when they were wide open. I hope Rodgers embraces Matty; but I want to see how this turns out several months, or a couple years in....I want to know if Rodgers thinks he's too dam smart to respect a coach....he was a real shithead to Mike McCarthy.

And on to Mike McCarthy. I don't know when it was; but he lost the players and the longer it went on the more bad conduct was overlooked....neglected....and not handled remotely appropriate. As a disciplinarian MM said the right things to the press, but was a fruitcake the past couple years of his rein. I also think Mike McCarthy is a high class person. Unlike AROD, he's a good human being. He discussed how he was let go, and pondered how painful it was for him to deal with player shortcomings. He was no longer successful as a head coach. But how he was let go seemed pretty heartless

On to my frickin Fave....MARCIA MARCIA MARCIA....you deserve the blame for a lot of recent failings on the Green Bay Packers. You were overseeing this ship as the talent dried up badly.
And you let it keep happening. if TT was occasionally dozing off, mentally becoming unhealthy, shame on you for not reacting right away. You take much blame for this all from talent. And when you fire a coach who won a Super Bowl for the Green Bay Packers, have at least a bit of a heart. Pulling him out right after the presser, showing no emotion or thankfulness for MM leading us to a SB. Cold and Nasty Marcia. I lack faith in you ability as a leader.

We're lookin like a Fart in the Wind and all three of these guys, along with TT, have plenty of blame

[falco]

We're lookin like a Fart in the Wind and all three of these guys, along with TT, have plenty of blame

the technical term for this is a "shit show"

[pbmax]

Of course over the course of it we will know positively that Aaron Rodgers is not of the even near same quality of a person as Brett Favre. It has been said over and over just what a happy go lucky teammate Favre was supporting his peers.

Brett Favre clearly was 'a Team player'. Favre spread 'the love' .

He had his own office and locker room apart from the team.

[pbmax]

What we really have is a QB that needs to bust his ass to get on the same page as his new Head Coach and OC.

What we might have here is an official Green Bay Packer management apology

Owed to Packer fans world wide,
.

I would rather they bust their ass as much as he does. Because that doesn't seem to have been happening in the last few years.

[pbmax]

Where in the article did Dunne mention that the Great Arm of Butte purposely tanked the season?

I've grown accustomed to A-Rod, but I'm disappointed to learn that he imprisoned Janis in a doghouse. Janis bailed Rodgers out TWICE on that last drive in Arizona, for fuck's sake! Good things happened when Janis was in the game.

Harlan is reading this and he's like, I'm glad i saw Janis live at Woodstock.

It didn't. That is board speculation.

[pbmax]

the technical term for this is a "shit show"

You (Fritz and Bretsky too) have to look at this as disaster half full, not half empty.

If this dysfunction won a Super Bowl and had the second or third best record in the League during their time together, just think how well they will perform with a smaller degree of self-harm?

If they can make the playoffs year after year while their GM is suffering from an unknown neurological condition, then the sky is the limit now.

[woodbuck27]

He had his own office and locker room apart from the team.

And your making what point with this comment?

[pbmax]

And your making what point with this comment?

As with Rodgers now, there were complaints then that Rodgers was not an effective leader with young players.

It's an easy story to write about older players.

[woodbuck27]

You (Fritz and Bretsky too) have to look at this as disaster half full, not half empty.

If this dysfunction won a Super Bowl and had the second or third best record in the League during their time together, just think how well they will perform with a smaller degree of self-harm?

If they can make the playoffs year after year while their GM is suffering from an unknown neurological condition, then the sky is the limit now.

We have some better chance as with MM we had little and I never understood how anyone in here believed that MM was the Cat's Ass as a Head Coach. He was just what I saw and out to lunch full of himself. His job was simple. Work on the same page as his star QB. I really cannot believe that ARod didn't knock the wind out of MM with a gut punch.

I will never forget Aaron Rodgers coming off the field one time all fired up with his fists clinched at his waste and right then and there It sure looked like ARod wanted to smoke MM.I believe it was over a flag tossing incident that shouldn't have been or a clear example of MM and being out to lunch.

[Deputy Nutz]

It didn't take long for the Favre comparisons to start in this thread. Favre and Rodgers are completely different players both not accustom to losing seasons, especially back to back seasons. Favre was the gunslinger that was going to go down in flames if he was losing a game. He didn't care if he threw 2 interceptions, or 4 if his team lost. He was going to go down slinging and looking to make the big play to try and force the win. Rodgers isn't going to allow himself to make a mistake regardless of the score. These are very different approaches, both don't make the team any better at the end of the game or the end of the season.

Their leadership qualities are also drastically different. Favre loved the connection to his teammates, he wanted to make everyone around him better, even running routes in practice to demonstrate how to run the routes the way they needed to be run. I keeping reading the separate locker room with Favre, the reality was that the media that surrounded Favre was immense while he was in the NFL locker room, and Favre and the team thought it was easier for him to change in a separate locker room closer to the practice field during training camp. The media hated it because they couldn't get constant access to Favre, so they made a bigger deal than necessary.

A really good read, "The Gunslinger" was a biography on Favre and didn't pull any punches. There was a whole chapter on the Rodgers and Favre relationship. Neither one of them did a lot to promote a positive relationship between each other. Two different personalities and two different generations, that rubbed the other the wrong way. I think the older Rodgers has gotten the better it was gotten.

It's funny how the past is now repeating each other, even though Favre and Rodgers are so different.

[pbmax]

Their leadership qualities are also drastically different. Favre loved the connection to his teammates, he wanted to make everyone around him better, even running routes in practice to demonstrate how to run the routes the way they needed to be run.

snip

It's funny how the past is now repeating each other, even though Favre and Rodgers are so different.

How, in any way, is this different than Rodgers relationships with Martin, Nelson, Cobb, Jones, Sitton, Lang, Bach, Peppers, Kuhn and Woodson? How was Favre's relationship with Billy Schroeder? Greg Jennings? Funny, I remember people complaining about Favre not wanting to get to know or help young players either.

You last line sums all this up much better. However Rodgers and Favre are different (and they share far more in common than not) that difference is almost immaterial. Its about self interest. Favre wanted to be GM and load up for near term Super Bowl shots. Rodgers is convinced that McCarthy was out of ideas (or perhaps did not care enough to have anymore) and the offense was never again going to have the talent to control the teams destiny again. Each was trying to extend the streak of great play and get another ring.

Its literally the end of every successful veteran QB career not named John Elway. And I do not think its any coincidence that Murphy hired someone that can be traced back to that lineage.

[mraynrand]

Except for Favre, you have the evidence of 2007 and 2009. That's pretty much like an Elway/Manning ending sans rings. And the key was greatly improved surrounding talent and coaches adapting to/exploiting the QB's talent.