Is Aaron Rodgers even good anymore?

[beveaux1]

Sorry mraynrand, you made the same points I did.

[beveaux1]

Except for the blocking, at this point in the season, you could replace Kumerow, Allison, MVS, and Tonyan with any bottom of the roster player from any team and have the same production.

[Fritz]

I don’t buy totally into the Rodgers was better without Adams claim. 1) see Sunday night. 2). Did he play better against Philly after Adams went out? 3) competition. Have to check on the actual games but I think their schedule was tougher when Adams was in. 4) adjustments. With Adams our, Packers made Jones the primary. He was Adams in those games. Maybe the offense worked better for a while, but teams adjusted to Jones also. Needs more research.

You're not helping the Packers with this . . . this reasoning shit. It's simple:
Rodgers needs to be pissed off for this Sunday's game. We need to be bitter and critical, not reasonable. "Rodgers sucks" has got to be the message on this board. If you don't believe me, here it is from the lips of David Bakhtiari:

"I mean, just please, keep it up," Bakhtiari said. "I hope that people keep saying it. If you've got a great player, and especially if he feels like he's got something to prove, that's scary."

[gbgary]

I think this is pretty misleading.

but in that period, as a whole, he threw more high-percentage passes, he threw to more guys, and they caught the ball at a higher rate. that's where the better without adams thing comes from. they're better with adams no question but with adams rodgers doesn't play within the offense (that MLF has adulterated to his liking) as much.

[RashanGary]

The Packers have a savvy, tough veteran OL. They have a savvy smart QB. They have a top WR and top RB.

And they have some contributors around them.

And they're just finding their groove

I hope they get underestimated

[gbgary]

The Packers have a savvy, tough veteran OL. They have a savvy smart QB. They have a top WR and top RB.

And they have some contributors around them.

And they're just finding their groove

I hope they get underestimated

i think they have been all season by all but the cheerleaders. it's been unbelievable. gute has to be thrilled. heck...murphy has to be thrilled. murph's always been a business genius but everything he's touched football wise since the thompson ouster has been gold. the gute hire is the biggest thing. he's done a great job.

[beveaux1]

but in that period, as a whole, he threw more high-percentage passes, he threw to more guys, and they caught the ball at a higher rate. that's where the better without adams thing comes from. they're better with adams no question but with adams rodgers doesn't play within the offense (that MLF has adulterated to his liking) as much.

I'm sorry. I don't think so. Jones had 22 catches during those 4 games. He discovered Lazard and completed 12 passes to him. He completed 12 to Graham, but he averages completing about 2.5 per game to Graham for the season. Kumerow, Lewis, Scantling, and Tonyan never had a game in which they caught more than 2. What the offense did was replace Adams with Jones and Williams, whichever was the RB.

The net result was to make Lazard a viable option, so they did accomplish that. As soon as Adams came back, the production of Jones and Williams dropped (they are now covered by DBs when split) and all other WRs and TEs stayed about the same.

We really only have one consistent receiving option and that's Adams. Lazard and Graham average 3.2 and 2.5 catches per game as the next tier. All the other WRs and TEs average 2 or less catches per game.

The 4 games that Adams missed didn't result in Rodgers appreciably throwing for a higher percentage or getting his other WRs more involved in the game (other than Lazard).

[beveaux1]

I would also point out that Lazard's production has, by and large, been at the expense of Allison since he came off the practice squad. Allison's targets have steadily decreased even though he is still the 3rd most targeted WR on the team.

[pbmax]

You're not helping the Packers with this . . . this reasoning shit. It's simple:
Rodgers needs to be pissed off for this Sunday's game. We need to be bitter and critical, not reasonable. "Rodgers sucks" has got to be the message on this board. If you don't believe me, here it is from the lips of David Bakhtiari:

"I mean, just please, keep it up," Bakhtiari said. "I hope that people keep saying it. If you've got a great player, and especially if he feels like he's got something to prove, that's scary."

He's finished! BOO!

[gbgary]

I'm sorry. I don't think so. Jones had 22 catches during those 4 games. He discovered Lazard and completed 12 passes to him. He completed 12 to Graham, but he averages completing about 2.5 per game to Graham for the season. Kumerow, Lewis, Scantling, and Tonyan never had a game in which they caught more than 2. What the offense did was replace Adams with Jones and Williams, whichever was the RB.

The net result was to make Lazard a viable option, so they did accomplish that. As soon as Adams came back, the production of Jones and Williams dropped (they are now covered by DBs when split) and all other WRs and TEs stayed about the same.

We really only have one consistent receiving option and that's Adams. Lazard and Graham average 3.2 and 2.5 catches per game as the next tier. All the other WRs and TEs average 2 or less catches per game.

The 4 games that Adams missed didn't result in Rodgers appreciably throwing for a higher percentage or getting his other WRs more involved in the game (other than Lazard).

all that's true but it doesn't refute anything i said. he threw to everyone, they were high percentage passes, and the guys caught the ball at a higher rate. small ball was the order of the day and his numbers went up.

[beveaux1]

all that's true but it doesn't refute anything i said. he threw to everyone, they were high percentage passes, and the guys caught the ball at a higher rate. small ball was the order of the day and his numbers went up.

Not trying to refute. In a small sample, we had one game with 80% completion rate which drove the average up. Other receivers caught about the same number of passes as they did in games without Adams, except RBs. The RBs replaced Adams as targets and caught his share of passes.

We did discover Lazard at the expense of Allison, which is a positive.

[smuggler]

Offense would be in really great shape right now if MVS had taken a year 2 step forward or EQSB had managed to avoid his ankle injury.... either of those while still uncovering the Lizard King.

[pbmax]

Offense would be in really great shape right now if MVS had taken a year 2 step forward or EQSB had managed to avoid his ankle injury.... either of those while still uncovering the Lizard King.

Agree.

Also, why haven't we thought of Lizard King before?

[mraynrand]

Sorry mraynrand, you made the same points I did.

Yours was a good post. Had a bit different perspective. Nice.

Still, as Fritz points out, it doesn’t matter. Rodgers is old, can’t run, will get pulverized Sunday, and the Packers will lose by 45 points.

[Zool]

So for a while when Adams was out, Jones actually lined up as a WR at times. He hasn't since. Is it Rodgers/defensive scheme/playcalling? Probably a little of each. There's not a lot of absolutes.

Jones had 42 targets in the first 8 games. He had 26 in the second half of the season. He was used less in the passing game. The only game I recall where I would put that on Rodgers is the second Detoilet game where he tried to get Jones killed on the wheel route.