OFFICIAL BRETT THE LIVING LEGEND THREAD

[packerbacker1234]

1) His presence alone causes players to perform better.


Especially opposing secondaries.

ksssssssssss! :twisted:



It's true. Bert made Tracy Porter a household name.

Peyton Manning sort of made his name even bigger.

Just saying, we are often times a bit unfair to Favre and his play on the field. His off field stuff is folly - the media makes of it what they will because the NFL is the most popular sport in america and everyone seems to at least know who Favre is.

Tiger Woods is nice to talk about, but bottom line is most people could care less about golf when compared to a favre/nfl story.

[Scott Campbell]

Just saying, we are often times a bit unfair to Favre and his play on the field.


Don't be so hard on yourself. I've never seen you hard on Favre.

[cheesner]

This is the way it will be remembered. ....
.....
Aug. 3: Star Tribune reports that Favre informed the Vikings he would not return for a 20th season.

I didn't see the interview with Greta in there!

Not to mention the lie that the Packers offered Brent $20M to stay retired. It was, in fact, a marketing spokesman plan that had been discussed and negotiated for at least 2 years when he was contemplating retirement.

[sharpe1027]

This is the way it will be remembered.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ys-brettfavretimeline073009

Here’s a brief look back at the QB’s past three years, starting with a record-setting performance against the Vikings.

Favre receives a congratulatory hug from his wife Deanna following the Packers’ 23-16 victory over the Minnesota Vikings on Sept. 30, 2007. Favre threw his NFL record 421st touchdown in the first quarter.
(Jeff Gross/Getty Images)
2007
Sept. 30: Favre passes Dan Marino’s all-time touchdown pass record of 420 vs. the Vikings.

Packers’ season: The team won the NFC North with a 13-3 record and made the NFC championship game, but was defeated by the New York Giants 23-20. Favre finishes the regular season with 28 touchdown passes for 4,155 yards and 15 interceptions.

2008
January/February: Favre withdraws from Pro Bowl after an ankle injury

March 4: Favre announces he will retire.

March 6: Favre retires, gives tearful retirement press conference.

March 27: Favre tells coach Mike McCarthy and general manager Ted Thompson he made mistake by retiring.

June 20: Favre calls McCarthy with plans to unretire. McCarthy says team has moved on with new starter Aaron Rodgers(notes).

July 11: Asks for unconditional release to play for another team. Packers deny.

July 16: Packers file tampering charges against the Vikings.

July 29: Favre faxes paperwork to the NFL to be reinstated.


McCarthy
July 30: Packers president and CEO Mark Murphy meets with Favre in Mississippi to persuade Favre to remain retired. Source close to Favre says the team floated $20 million offer over 10 years for Favre to stay retired.

Aug. 3: NFL reinstates Favre.

Aug. 4: Favre reports to Packers training camp. Meets with head coach Mike McCarthy and general manager Ted Thompson and they agree to part ways.

Aug. 7: The Vikings are interested in Favre, but since he’s not a free agent the Packers refuse to trade him within the division, instead opting for a trade to the Jets for conditional fourth-round pick in the 2009 draft ($12 million salary).

Favre and the Jets lose to Seattle in Week 16.
Jets’ season: The team lost four of their last five games and missed the playoffs with an overall record of 9-7. Favre finished with 22 touchdown passes for 3,472 yards and 22 interceptions, including eight interceptions in the final four games.

Dec. 29: MRI reveals torn biceps tendon in Favre’s right shoulder, requiring arthroscopic surgery.

2009
Feb. 11: Favre tells Jets he will retire.


Childress
April 28: Jets waive Favre off their reserved/retired list for unknown reasons. Favre is free to sign with any team should he unretire. Jets selected former USC QB Mark Sanchez(notes) in the NFL draft three days earlier.

May: Favre undergoes arthroscopic surgery to repair his injured right passing shoulder. Shoulder is reportedly not 100 percent.

May 7: Favre tells Vikings coach Matt Childress he wants to remain retired.

May 29-31: Vikings’ mandatory minicamp goes on without Favre. Tarvaris Jackson(notes), Sage Rosenfels(notes) and John David Booty(notes) are the quarterbacks.

June 15: Favre acknowledges on HBO’s “Joe Buck Live” that he’s “considering it” when asked about playing in 2009.

Vikings coach Brad Childress drives Favre from airport to training camp on Aug. 18.
(AP photo)
July 9: Vikings trainer Eric Sugarman visits Hattiesburg, Miss., for the second time since June to check Favre’s physical condition, according to the Star Tribune.

July 15: Tells the Associated Press that the Vikings will know by the July 30 start to their training camp whether he will be attending.

July 20: Vikings single-game tickets go on sale.

July 28: Brad Childress tells the Star Tribune that Favre will stay retired.

Aug. 18: Favre arrives at Vikings training camp to meet with coach Brad Childress and others and is in helmet and pads less than 90 minutes after arriving wearing practice jersey No. 4. AP reports a deal is done.

Sept. 13: Favre throws 1 TD pass and no INTs in a win over Cleveland in his regular-season debut for the Vikes.

Sept. 27: Favre’s TD pass to Greg Lewis with two seconds remaining beats the 49ers.

Oct. 5: In his first game against the Packers, Favre throws 3 TD passes as Minnesota improves to 4-0.

Nov. 1: In his first game back at Lambeau Field, Favre throws 4 TD passes as Minnesota improves to 7-1.

Dec. 20: Favre refuses Childress’ request to come out of the game during a loss to the Panthers.

2010

The Saints pounded Favre.
(Matt Stamey/US Presswire)
Jan. 17: Favre throws four 4 TD passes in an NFC divisional playoff win vs. the Cowboys.

Jan. 24: Favre throws a critical fourth-quarter pick in the NFC title game loss vs. the Saints.

May 21: Favre confirms on his website that he had arthroscopic surgery on his left ankle.

Aug. 3: Star Tribune reports that Favre informed the Vikings he would not return for a 20th season.

It is missing a few key points.

McCarthy and Thompson decide they will welcome him back. They secure a private jet from a Packers board member to visit Favre in person and seal the deal. Favre immediately backs down.

Favre allegedly tells Campen that the Vikings are interested in him, even though he is still under contract with the Packers.

McCarthy asks Favre if he was 100 percent committed to a return. "He said, 'No, no, I'm not saying I'm there yet."

McCarthy told Favre, point-blank, that he didn’t want to turn on his TV or computer after the meeting ended and see quotes from Favre, anonymous or otherwise, discussing the interaction. Yet on Tuesday morning, an article turned up on espn.com with numerous quotes from Favre. The quarterback said, among other things, the Packers had “planted” inaccurate stories about him and that “they tried to buy me off to stay retired” – a reference to the reported 10-year, $20-million marketing deal the team offered. Favre also provided specifics of his conversation with McCarthy, in direct violation of the coach’s previously stated wishes.

The $20-million deal was offered to Favre long before he ever began talking about returning.

[Scott Campbell]

Yeah, but Ted looked at him funny.

[mraynrand]

"You don't like to throw interceptions. But the one thing I admire about Brett Favre is the way he responds to those things. He shakes them off and keeps going." Colt McCoy

[mraynrand]

What this thread needs a one of Skinbaskets strange little videos of the He-man looking guy shooting his load on a Unicorn or Dolphin or whatever the hell it was.

What an epic circle jerk.

But it's fun (unless you are the Dolphin, I guess)

P.S. Fuck off :D

[Scott Campbell]

What this thread needs a one of Skinbaskets strange little videos of the He-man looking guy shooting his load on a Unicorn or Dolphin or whatever the hell it was.

What an epic circle jerk.



He hasn't busted that one out in a while. Classic. :lol:

[Freak Out]

What this thread needs a one of Skinbaskets strange little videos of the He-man looking guy shooting his load on a Unicorn or Dolphin or whatever the hell it was.

What an epic circle jerk.

But it's fun (unless you are the Dolphin, I guess)

P.S. Fuck off :D

I think there was a small child that took it in the face as well....... :lol:

What's funny is just how much the old man get's people fired up after all this time.....of course the traitor did end up with the Queens.

Can we please beat the fucker this year?

DAYUM!

Let's Goooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

:lol:

[mraynrand]

What's funny is just how much the old man get's people fired up after all this time.....of course the traitor did end up with the Queens.

For me that's the key item - He's a Viking QB. I hate all Viking QBs, but I don't think any Viking QB has gotten under my skin as much as Favre. Fran Tarkinton just looked like a squirrel running around back there - plus, he was on "That's Incredible!" talking to that guy who sat in a plastic box at the bottom of a pool. Even when Tommy Kramer was calling into WCCO drunk, you kinda knew the guy was just a pathetic bumbler. McMahon was always a jerk, but he was sticking it to the Bears so that made up for it. Wade Wilson? Salisbury Steak? Brad Johnson? Nah. Culpepper - maybe that roll thing with his hands? Nah - doesn't come close to the Traitor.

[Freak Out]

What's funny is just how much the old man get's people fired up after all this time.....of course the traitor did end up with the Queens.

For me that's the key item - He's a Viking QB. I hate all Viking QBs, but I don't think any Viking QB has gotten under my skin as much as Favre. Fran Tarkinton just looked like a squirrel running around back there - plus, he was on "That's Incredible!" talking to that guy who sat in a plastic box at the bottom of a pool. Even when Tommy Kramer was calling into WCCO drunk, you kinda knew the guy was just a pathetic bumbler. McMahon was always a jerk, but he was sticking it to the Bears so that made up for it. Wade Wilson? Salisbury Steak? Brad Johnson? Nah. Culpepper - maybe that roll thing with his hands? Nah - doesn't come close to the Traitor.

I have to say I have never wanted to see the Packers beat the Vikes more than now.

[Scott Campbell]

Yeah, but imagine if he hadn't choked.

[packers11]

Brett Favre "This is my last year" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[mraynrand]

What's funny is just how much the old man get's people fired up after all this time.....of course the traitor did end up with the Queens.

For me that's the key item - He's a Viking QB. I hate all Viking QBs, but I don't think any Viking QB has gotten under my skin as much as Favre. Fran Tarkinton just looked like a squirrel running around back there - plus, he was on "That's Incredible!" talking to that guy who sat in a plastic box at the bottom of a pool. Even when Tommy Kramer was calling into WCCO drunk, you kinda knew the guy was just a pathetic bumbler. McMahon was always a jerk, but he was sticking it to the Bears so that made up for it. Wade Wilson? Salisbury Steak? Brad Johnson? Nah. Culpepper - maybe that roll thing with his hands? Nah - doesn't come close to the Traitor.

I have to say I have never wanted to see the Packers beat the Vikes more than now.

The last time I go this worked up was when I was going to college in MN and Keith Millard would flap his gums. Sweet when they beat them 20-19 in Milwaukee in '89. Millard was a beast that year with 18(?) sacks. He had to shut his hole after Hallstrom (I think) shut him down.

[Bossman641]

This is the way it will be remembered.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ys-brettfavretimeline073009

Here’s a brief look back at the QB’s past three years, starting with a record-setting performance against the Vikings.

Favre receives a congratulatory hug from his wife Deanna following the Packers’ 23-16 victory over the Minnesota Vikings on Sept. 30, 2007. Favre threw his NFL record 421st touchdown in the first quarter.
(Jeff Gross/Getty Images)
2007
Sept. 30: Favre passes Dan Marino’s all-time touchdown pass record of 420 vs. the Vikings.

Packers’ season: The team won the NFC North with a 13-3 record and made the NFC championship game, but was defeated by the New York Giants 23-20. Favre finishes the regular season with 28 touchdown passes for 4,155 yards and 15 interceptions.

2008
January/February: Favre withdraws from Pro Bowl after an ankle injury

March 4: Favre announces he will retire.

March 6: Favre retires, gives tearful retirement press conference.

March 27: Favre tells coach Mike McCarthy and general manager Ted Thompson he made mistake by retiring.

June 20: Favre calls McCarthy with plans to unretire. McCarthy says team has moved on with new starter Aaron Rodgers(notes).

July 11: Asks for unconditional release to play for another team. Packers deny.

July 16: Packers file tampering charges against the Vikings.

July 29: Favre faxes paperwork to the NFL to be reinstated.


McCarthy
July 30: Packers president and CEO Mark Murphy meets with Favre in Mississippi to persuade Favre to remain retired. Source close to Favre says the team floated $20 million offer over 10 years for Favre to stay retired.

Aug. 3: NFL reinstates Favre.

Aug. 4: Favre reports to Packers training camp. Meets with head coach Mike McCarthy and general manager Ted Thompson and they agree to part ways.

Aug. 7: The Vikings are interested in Favre, but since he’s not a free agent the Packers refuse to trade him within the division, instead opting for a trade to the Jets for conditional fourth-round pick in the 2009 draft ($12 million salary).

Favre and the Jets lose to Seattle in Week 16.
Jets’ season: The team lost four of their last five games and missed the playoffs with an overall record of 9-7. Favre finished with 22 touchdown passes for 3,472 yards and 22 interceptions, including eight interceptions in the final four games.

Dec. 29: MRI reveals torn biceps tendon in Favre’s right shoulder, requiring arthroscopic surgery.

2009
Feb. 11: Favre tells Jets he will retire.


Childress
April 28: Jets waive Favre off their reserved/retired list for unknown reasons. Favre is free to sign with any team should he unretire. Jets selected former USC QB Mark Sanchez(notes) in the NFL draft three days earlier.

May: Favre undergoes arthroscopic surgery to repair his injured right passing shoulder. Shoulder is reportedly not 100 percent.

May 7: Favre tells Vikings coach Matt Childress he wants to remain retired.

May 29-31: Vikings’ mandatory minicamp goes on without Favre. Tarvaris Jackson(notes), Sage Rosenfels(notes) and John David Booty(notes) are the quarterbacks.

June 15: Favre acknowledges on HBO’s “Joe Buck Live” that he’s “considering it” when asked about playing in 2009.

Vikings coach Brad Childress drives Favre from airport to training camp on Aug. 18.
(AP photo)
July 9: Vikings trainer Eric Sugarman visits Hattiesburg, Miss., for the second time since June to check Favre’s physical condition, according to the Star Tribune.

July 15: Tells the Associated Press that the Vikings will know by the July 30 start to their training camp whether he will be attending.

July 20: Vikings single-game tickets go on sale.

July 28: Brad Childress tells the Star Tribune that Favre will stay retired.

Aug. 18: Favre arrives at Vikings training camp to meet with coach Brad Childress and others and is in helmet and pads less than 90 minutes after arriving wearing practice jersey No. 4. AP reports a deal is done.

Sept. 13: Favre throws 1 TD pass and no INTs in a win over Cleveland in his regular-season debut for the Vikes.

Sept. 27: Favre’s TD pass to Greg Lewis with two seconds remaining beats the 49ers.

Oct. 5: In his first game against the Packers, Favre throws 3 TD passes as Minnesota improves to 4-0.

Nov. 1: In his first game back at Lambeau Field, Favre throws 4 TD passes as Minnesota improves to 7-1.

Dec. 20: Favre refuses Childress’ request to come out of the game during a loss to the Panthers.

2010

The Saints pounded Favre.
(Matt Stamey/US Presswire)
Jan. 17: Favre throws four 4 TD passes in an NFC divisional playoff win vs. the Cowboys.

Jan. 24: Favre throws a critical fourth-quarter pick in the NFC title game loss vs. the Saints.

May 21: Favre confirms on his website that he had arthroscopic surgery on his left ankle.

Aug. 3: Star Tribune reports that Favre informed the Vikings he would not return for a 20th season.

It is missing a few key points.

McCarthy and Thompson decide they will welcome him back. They secure a private jet from a Packers board member to visit Favre in person and seal the deal. Favre immediately backs down.

Favre allegedly tells Campen that the Vikings are interested in him, even though he is still under contract with the Packers.

McCarthy asks Favre if he was 100 percent committed to a return. "He said, 'No, no, I'm not saying I'm there yet."

McCarthy told Favre, point-blank, that he didn’t want to turn on his TV or computer after the meeting ended and see quotes from Favre, anonymous or otherwise, discussing the interaction. Yet on Tuesday morning, an article turned up on espn.com with numerous quotes from Favre. The quarterback said, among other things, the Packers had “planted” inaccurate stories about him and that “they tried to buy me off to stay retired” – a reference to the reported 10-year, $20-million marketing deal the team offered. Favre also provided specifics of his conversation with McCarthy, in direct violation of the coach’s previously stated wishes.

The $20-million deal was offered to Favre long before he ever began talking about returning.

Another key point missed - While on the Jets, Favre talks to the Lions with tips on the Packers' offense.

This passes for journalism? Who the hell wrote this thing, Mobb Deep??

[Fritz]

Well I am glad to hear that this is finally going to be Favre's last year. That's what he said, right?

[mraynrand]

Well I am glad to hear that this is finally going to be Favre's last year. That's what he said, right?

I believe him!


:roll:

[gex]

This is the way it will be remembered.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ys-brettfavretimeline073009

Here’s a brief look back at the QB’s past three years, starting with a record-setting performance against the Vikings.

Favre receives a congratulatory hug from his wife Deanna following the Packers’ 23-16 victory over the Minnesota Vikings on Sept. 30, 2007. Favre threw his NFL record 421st touchdown in the first quarter.
(Jeff Gross/Getty Images)
2007
Sept. 30: Favre passes Dan Marino’s all-time touchdown pass record of 420 vs. the Vikings.

Packers’ season: The team won the NFC North with a 13-3 record and made the NFC championship game, but was defeated by the New York Giants 23-20. Favre finishes the regular season with 28 touchdown passes for 4,155 yards and 15 interceptions.

2008
January/February: Favre withdraws from Pro Bowl after an ankle injury

March 4: Favre announces he will retire.

March 6: Favre retires, gives tearful retirement press conference.

March 27: Favre tells coach Mike McCarthy and general manager Ted Thompson he made mistake by retiring.

June 20: Favre calls McCarthy with plans to unretire. McCarthy says team has moved on with new starter Aaron Rodgers(notes).

July 11: Asks for unconditional release to play for another team. Packers deny.

July 16: Packers file tampering charges against the Vikings.

July 29: Favre faxes paperwork to the NFL to be reinstated.


McCarthy
July 30: Packers president and CEO Mark Murphy meets with Favre in Mississippi to persuade Favre to remain retired. Source close to Favre says the team floated $20 million offer over 10 years for Favre to stay retired.

Aug. 3: NFL reinstates Favre.

Aug. 4: Favre reports to Packers training camp. Meets with head coach Mike McCarthy and general manager Ted Thompson and they agree to part ways.

Aug. 7: The Vikings are interested in Favre, but since he’s not a free agent the Packers refuse to trade him within the division, instead opting for a trade to the Jets for conditional fourth-round pick in the 2009 draft ($12 million salary).

Favre and the Jets lose to Seattle in Week 16.
Jets’ season: The team lost four of their last five games and missed the playoffs with an overall record of 9-7. Favre finished with 22 touchdown passes for 3,472 yards and 22 interceptions, including eight interceptions in the final four games.

Dec. 29: MRI reveals torn biceps tendon in Favre’s right shoulder, requiring arthroscopic surgery.

2009
Feb. 11: Favre tells Jets he will retire.


Childress
April 28: Jets waive Favre off their reserved/retired list for unknown reasons. Favre is free to sign with any team should he unretire. Jets selected former USC QB Mark Sanchez(notes) in the NFL draft three days earlier.

May: Favre undergoes arthroscopic surgery to repair his injured right passing shoulder. Shoulder is reportedly not 100 percent.

May 7: Favre tells Vikings coach Matt Childress he wants to remain retired.

May 29-31: Vikings’ mandatory minicamp goes on without Favre. Tarvaris Jackson(notes), Sage Rosenfels(notes) and John David Booty(notes) are the quarterbacks.

June 15: Favre acknowledges on HBO’s “Joe Buck Live” that he’s “considering it” when asked about playing in 2009.

Vikings coach Brad Childress drives Favre from airport to training camp on Aug. 18.
(AP photo)
July 9: Vikings trainer Eric Sugarman visits Hattiesburg, Miss., for the second time since June to check Favre’s physical condition, according to the Star Tribune.

July 15: Tells the Associated Press that the Vikings will know by the July 30 start to their training camp whether he will be attending.

July 20: Vikings single-game tickets go on sale.

July 28: Brad Childress tells the Star Tribune that Favre will stay retired.

Aug. 18: Favre arrives at Vikings training camp to meet with coach Brad Childress and others and is in helmet and pads less than 90 minutes after arriving wearing practice jersey No. 4. AP reports a deal is done.

Sept. 13: Favre throws 1 TD pass and no INTs in a win over Cleveland in his regular-season debut for the Vikes.

Sept. 27: Favre’s TD pass to Greg Lewis with two seconds remaining beats the 49ers.

Oct. 5: In his first game against the Packers, Favre throws 3 TD passes as Minnesota improves to 4-0.

Nov. 1: In his first game back at Lambeau Field, Favre throws 4 TD passes as Minnesota improves to 7-1.

Dec. 20: Favre refuses Childress’ request to come out of the game during a loss to the Panthers.

2010

The Saints pounded Favre.
(Matt Stamey/US Presswire)
Jan. 17: Favre throws four 4 TD passes in an NFC divisional playoff win vs. the Cowboys.

Jan. 24: Favre throws a critical fourth-quarter pick in the NFC title game loss vs. the Saints.

May 21: Favre confirms on his website that he had arthroscopic surgery on his left ankle.

Aug. 3: Star Tribune reports that Favre informed the Vikings he would not return for a 20th season.

It is missing a few key points.

McCarthy and Thompson decide they will welcome him back. They secure a private jet from a Packers board member to visit Favre in person and seal the deal. Favre immediately backs down.

Favre allegedly tells Campen that the Vikings are interested in him, even though he is still under contract with the Packers.

McCarthy asks Favre if he was 100 percent committed to a return. "He said, 'No, no, I'm not saying I'm there yet."

McCarthy told Favre, point-blank, that he didn’t want to turn on his TV or computer after the meeting ended and see quotes from Favre, anonymous or otherwise, discussing the interaction. Yet on Tuesday morning, an article turned up on espn.com with numerous quotes from Favre. The quarterback said, among other things, the Packers had “planted” inaccurate stories about him and that “they tried to buy me off to stay retired” – a reference to the reported 10-year, $20-million marketing deal the team offered. Favre also provided specifics of his conversation with McCarthy, in direct violation of the coach’s previously stated wishes.

The $20-million deal was offered to Favre long before he ever began talking about returning.

Another key point missed - While on the Jets, Favre talks to the Lions with tips on the Packers' offense.

This passes for journalism? Who the hell wrote this thing, Mobb Deep??Like I said, This is how history is gonna remember how it all went down...may be 10 years ..or more.. but after its all over he will be known in the history and record books as one of the greatest football players to ever play the game. People will tell stories of how the wily old coot would get outta camp year after year and still put up great seasons and great numbers (think of the Max Mcgee stories)
The legend will be strong.

[cheesner]

Well I am glad to hear that this is finally going to be Favre's last year. That's what he said, right?

August 20, 2011

A nervous Brett Favre paces across his living room floor.

"No? Well can you check for later in the day, or tomorrow?" He shifts his cell phone to his other ear, and listens intently.

"I see. Well what if it wasn't direct from Minneappolis? Maybe they stopped in Chicago so he stop at his bank" Brett reasoned.

After a slight pause, "Okay," Brett continued. "Maybe he got a new plane. Can you check for all planes owned by Ziggy Wilf and see any flight plans have been filed with the FAA?"

"Good! Now we are getting somewhere! Seattle? Next week? That doesn't make any sense" Brett responded in a confused tone.

"Is there another Seattle in Mississippi? Or is the one in Oregon or Idaho or . . . er . . wherever? ", Brett asked desperately.

Favre shift the cell phone back to the original ear. He stops pacing, twists his mouth for a moment as he looks at the crocs on his feet. In a more somber tone, he continues, "Okay. Well thanks for checking anyway."

He walks slowly over to the couch and takes a seat, throwing his head back and draping his arms across the couch. As he tosses his cell phone onto an end table, his hands bumps into a magazine. Mindlessly he lifts and brings up to his eyes. His shoulders slump farther and he bobs his head in dejection as he reads the headline. "Favre throws 5 ints as the Packers dominate the Vikings in NFC Championship"

"Gee whiz", he thinks, "I was just having fun out there."

He stammers under his breath in amazement, "But, but, but, . . . I am the old gunslinger, for goodness sakes.

[ThunderDan]

Like I said, This is how history is gonna remember how it all went down...may be 10 years ..or more.. but after its all over he will be known in the history and record books as one of the greatest football players to ever play the game. People will tell stories of how the wily old coot would get outta camp year after year and still put up great seasons and great numbers (think of the Max Mcgee stories)
The legend will be strong.

Just like getting favred is now being used in our language as someone who is a traitor.

[Scott Campbell]

Like I said, This is how history is gonna remember how it all went down...may be 10 years ..or more.. but after its all over he will be known in the history and record books as one of the greatest football players to ever play the game. People will tell stories of how the wily old coot would get outta camp year after year and still put up great seasons and great numbers (think of the Max Mcgee stories)
The legend will be strong.

Just like getting favred is now being used in our language as someone who is a traitor.

Or Kurt Warner isn't going to pull a Favre an unretire.

[Gunakor]

I don't think history will remember him as one of the greatest players to ever play the game. He'll be remembered for his durability, his sense of humor, and his reckless abandon. His unwillingness to conform to sound fundamentals. But he won't be remembered for being great when he absolutely had to be. The greatest players to ever play the game have risen up and met those challenges, overcame them and have rings to show for it. Favre's history is littered with a bunch of what if's and if only's. He has a better chance of going down in history for making boneheaded decisions in the post season that cost his teammates their dream of playing in a Super Bowl than he does for winning a shit ton of games in September and October. That's what I think.

[Joemailman]

Well I am glad to hear that this is finally going to be Favre's last year. That's what he said, right?

He'll be a free agent next year. What if the Packers aren't satisfied with Flynn as a backup? I'm not sayin' I'm just sayin'...

[ThunderDan]

Well I am glad to hear that this is finally going to be Favre's last year. That's what he said, right?

He'll be a free agent next year. What if the Packers aren't satisfied with Flynn as a backup? I'm not sayin' I'm just sayin'...

He does know our Offense pretty well since he is running pretty close to the same thing up in MN. :lol:

[mraynrand]

Like I said, This is how history is gonna remember how it all went down...may be 10 years ..or more..

Here's how Colt McCoy 'remembers' Favre already:

"You don't like to throw interceptions. But the one thing I admire about Brett Favre is the way he responds to those things. He shakes them off and keeps going."

When McCoy thinks of Interceptions, he thinks of Favre. :D

[Bossman641]

Like I said, This is how history is gonna remember how it all went down...may be 10 years ..or more.. but after its all over he will be known in the history and record books as one of the greatest football players to ever play the game. People will tell stories of how the wily old coot would get outta camp year after year and still put up great seasons and great numbers (think of the Max Mcgee stories)
The legend will be strong.

That's only how you and the rest of the Favre fanatics who enable this behavior will remember it. True Packer fans let Favre know how they felt about him last year, and the rest of the country grew tired of Favre's annual will he/won't he years ago.

[Fritz]

Well I am glad to hear that this is finally going to be Favre's last year. That's what he said, right?

He'll be a free agent next year. What if the Packers aren't satisfied with Flynn as a backup? I'm not sayin' I'm just sayin'...

He does know our Offense pretty well since he is running pretty close to the same thing up in MN. :lol:

Wouldn't he be due to land somewhere like Chicago...or Dallas?

[vince]

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/15001/a-big-favor-from-brett-favre


A 'big favor' from Brett Favre

EDEN PRAIRIE, Minn. -- The mission was clear, Jared Allen said of his trip to Mississippi this week with teammates Steve Hutchinson and Ryan Longwell.

"We needed a 'yes' or a 'no,'" Allen said. "One way or the other. We were starting to get along in this preseason and that was it."

The group carried a "message from the locker room," according to Hutchinson.

"It was clear cut," Hutchinson said. "It was cut and dried: 'We're down here to find out what you want to do. The guys on this team want you here. Everybody wants you here.' Basically that's what we told him."

Ultimately, Longwell said, "we asked him to do it for the guys."

And here, based on what he said Wednesday, is what quarterback Brett Favre heard:

"[They] were like, 'Hey, if you could do us one favor. And that's a pretty big favor.'"

Awesome.

Brilliant.

Just beautiful, really.

I mean this in all sincerity, with no malice and (almost no) sarcasm: Only Favre could manipulate that recruiting mission into a no-lose situation for himself. That's essentially the message Favre conveyed Wednesday during his return-to-Minnesota news conference. He will play not because of his reported $16.5 million salary, not for a chance to enhance his NFL records or to prove he can play at age 41.

This season is a "favor" for the players with whom he spent five months of his 20-year NFL career, an attempt to give it "one more try" to help them win a Super Bowl. Favre, in fact, used the word "favor" six times in 33 minutes. And if it doesn't work out? It was just a favor, anyway.

"I'm not here to set any records," Favre said. "People say, 'You can do this. And you can do this.' I say, 'I've done it all. There's nothing left for me to prove.' I'm here to have fun and help these guys win."

How charitable. We all know Favre is a Super Bowl quarterback and a future Hall of Famer. Who knew he was a world-class philanthropist as well?

Kidding aside, I consider Favre's interpretation of his mission to be precious insight into his psyche and a fascinating explanation for why he returned. The player on whom the Vikings are resting their Super Bowl hopes needed to convince himself that no result to this season would be a personal failure.

If that wasn't obvious from his comments Wednesday, consider the way Longwell described the final 30 minutes of the Mississippi visit. Prior to that point, Longwell said, all three teammates thought Favre's final decision would be to retire.

"He had given us, speaking from the heart, kind of a legit, 'This is why I'm where I'm at,' and we all felt that it was sound reasoning," Longwell said. "Finally in that last half hour we all kind of spilled our guts about, 'It's not about the touchdown passes and the wins and losses and stuff but would you do it just for the guys?

"'It elevates the whole locker room, elevates the whole community, the whole state, just you being there. Not even throwing passes, not even getting under center, just you being there. Would you do it for the guys?' He had said over the night and the day that the one thing he missed was the guys. That was the one thing, the common theme through everything and so we spilled our guts, we were sitting there in his jeep and he said, 'All right let's go do this.'"

I don't doubt that Favre enjoyed his time with the Vikings last season, and you could do a lot worse than teaming up with men like Longwell, Hutchinson and Allen. But with all due respect to them, what finally swayed Favre was an appeal to help by simply showing up. Anything he accomplished beyond that would be gravy.

The reality, as we all know, is that Favre represents the difference between the Vikings contending for the playoffs and for the Super Bowl. But what Favre himself needed to hear is that he would be an accessory, not the foundation. I found it a fascinating combination of bravado and insecurity, all rolled into one. You wouldn't have Brett Favre without both.

[digitaldean]

The 3 amigos going down to Mississippi to "ask" Favre to come back, leaves the impression they are begging him to come back so they don't have to use T-Jack or Sage.

All I have to say is, let's find a way to beat #4 fair and square.

The fitting coup de grâce...
Favre getting beat by another late game pick in the playoffs vs. the Packers AT Lambeau.

I will settle for a sub .500 season for the Queens and them missing the playoffs though :lol: :lol:

If the Packers play well enough to beat him in the playoffs, THEN we'll see if he REALLY makes this his last season.

[MJZiggy]

The 3 amigos going down to Mississippi to "ask" Favre to come back, leaves the impression they are begging him to come back so they don't have to use T-Jack or Sage.

All I have to say is, let's find a way to beat #4 fair and square.

The fitting coup de grâce...
Favre getting beat by another late game pick in the playoffs vs. the Packers AT Lambeau.

I will settle for a sub .500 season for the Queens and them missing the playoffs though :lol: :lol:

If the Packers play well enough to beat him in the playoffs, THEN we'll see if he REALLY makes this his last season.

Imagine how TJack and Sage feel about this--especially considering that Sage was brought in to start right before Favre got there...

[packerbacker1234]

I don't think history will remember him as one of the greatest players to ever play the game. He'll be remembered for his durability, his sense of humor, and his reckless abandon. His unwillingness to conform to sound fundamentals. But he won't be remembered for being great when he absolutely had to be. The greatest players to ever play the game have risen up and met those challenges, overcame them and have rings to show for it. Favre's history is littered with a bunch of what if's and if only's. He has a better chance of going down in history for making boneheaded decisions in the post season that cost his teammates their dream of playing in a Super Bowl than he does for winning a shit ton of games in September and October. That's what I think.


For a second there, I thought you were talking about Peyton Manning's legacy. 2 super bowls, one win (where notably, he played like shit), one loss (where on a must have drive late in the 4th, he throws not just a pick, but a pick 6 to seal the game for the saints), then a slew of playoff exits, usually do in part to his poor play. Manning has not been a very successful post season QB, much like Favre.

What I am saying is, he has a ring. There are A LOT of all-time greats out there that don't. Is Dan Marino not an all-time great QB because he doesn't have rings? When it's all said and done, he will be remembered as one of the greatest QB's to play the game, and possibility the most liked, hated, feared, and diva at the position to ever play.

He holds all the records, is the most durable QB to ever play the game, and as was stated, most importantly he has his ring. Yes it's one. Yes there should of been more. Yes, he is a better QB then he has shown in big time playoff losses, because he showed it in the 90's in big time playoff wins, and even last season against dallas, a preseason SB favorite this year, he lit them up in the playoffs last year. He was even playing alright against the saints, and just failed late... which is something we are all too familiar with.

However, you can't deny he is/was a great player, and was extremely exciting to watch. He may not be your pick for a QB in the playoffs, (please, like I want anyone other than Joe Montana in the playoffs, MAYBE Bart Starr, though I don't know how well he would hold up in todays league) but I do know he has been a lot of fun to watch.

20 seasons in the NFL. He has been there from the very first time I watched a game to now, and through it all, has been entertaining to watch. I wish him well, and for his legacies sake I almost want him to get that 2nd ring, but I will never, ever, cheer for the vikings to win a SB.

AR, Packers, Driver... Woodson... lets bring Lombardi back home this year.

[Merlin]

1) His presence alone causes players to perform better.


Especially opposing secondaries.

So, did Rodgers cost us our lone playoff game last year? I don't think he did but I want to know what you think.

Look at your comment above and think real hard before you answer...

If there is a typhoon in Indonesia, does it change the fact that Brett Favre lost 3 NFC Championship games and One Divisional game with unforced interceptions? Think real hard before you answer.

Depends who is answering the question. Is it a rational person or a Favre fanatic?

Whatever - say what you will. I am used to being called names, I am used to the hypocritical way the people here act, and I am used to people bashing me. Years ago it would bother me but one thing I have learned, some things just aren't worth it and this "argument" about some fanatasy you are living clearly is not.

Just smile and wave boys, smile and wave :flag: :flag: :flag: :flag:

[Bossman641]

1) His presence alone causes players to perform better.


Especially opposing secondaries.

So, did Rodgers cost us our lone playoff game last year? I don't think he did but I want to know what you think.

Look at your comment above and think real hard before you answer...

If there is a typhoon in Indonesia, does it change the fact that Brett Favre lost 3 NFC Championship games and One Divisional game with unforced interceptions? Think real hard before you answer.

Depends who is answering the question. Is it a rational person or a Favre fanatic?

Whatever - say what you will. I am used to being called names, I am used to the hypocritical way the people here act, and I am used to people bashing me. Years ago it would bother me but one thing I have learned, some things just aren't worth it and this "argument" about some fanatasy you are living clearly is not.

Just smile and wave boys, smile and wave :flag: :flag: :flag: :flag:

????????

[DannoMac21]

1) His presence alone causes players to perform better.


Especially opposing secondaries.

So, did Rodgers cost us our lone playoff game last year? I don't think he did but I want to know what you think.

Look at your comment above and think real hard before you answer...

If there is a typhoon in Indonesia, does it change the fact that Brett Favre lost 3 NFC Championship games and One Divisional game with unforced interceptions? Think real hard before you answer.

Depends who is answering the question. Is it a rational person or a Favre fanatic?

Whatever - say what you will. I am used to being called names, I am used to the hypocritical way the people here act, and I am used to people bashing me. Years ago it would bother me but one thing I have learned, some things just aren't worth it and this "argument" about some fanatasy you are living clearly is not.

Just smile and wave boys, smile and wave :flag: :flag: :flag: :flag:

Not sure if serious/sober

[Gunakor]

For a second there, I thought you were talking about Peyton Manning's legacy. 2 super bowls, one win (where notably, he played like shit), one loss (where on a must have drive late in the 4th, he throws not just a pick, but a pick 6 to seal the game for the saints), then a slew of playoff exits, usually do in part to his poor play. Manning has not been a very successful post season QB, much like Favre.

What I am saying is, he has a ring. There are A LOT of all-time greats out there that don't. Is Dan Marino not an all-time great QB because he doesn't have rings? When it's all said and done, he will be remembered as one of the greatest QB's to play the game, and possibility the most liked, hated, feared, and diva at the position to ever play.

He holds all the records, is the most durable QB to ever play the game, and as was stated, most importantly he has his ring. Yes it's one. Yes there should of been more. Yes, he is a better QB then he has shown in big time playoff losses, because he showed it in the 90's in big time playoff wins, and even last season against dallas, a preseason SB favorite this year, he lit them up in the playoffs last year. He was even playing alright against the saints, and just failed late... which is something we are all too familiar with.

However, you can't deny he is/was a great player, and was extremely exciting to watch. He may not be your pick for a QB in the playoffs, (please, like I want anyone other than Joe Montana in the playoffs, MAYBE Bart Starr, though I don't know how well he would hold up in todays league) but I do know he has been a lot of fun to watch.

20 seasons in the NFL. He has been there from the very first time I watched a game to now, and through it all, has been entertaining to watch. I wish him well, and for his legacies sake I almost want him to get that 2nd ring, but I will never, ever, cheer for the vikings to win a SB.

AR, Packers, Driver... Woodson... lets bring Lombardi back home this year.

I could have been talking about Manning's career as well. It's a very fair comparison IMO. Both big time quarterbacks from September through November/December, both big time chokers in January. Believe me, I'm no more a Manning fan than I am a Favre fan. For the same reasons. Neither has been at their very best when they absolutely had to be. Both men have been asked to carry their teams, and both men have let their teams down. That's an undeniable fact. Though, I find it oddly strange that there are some people out there that harp on Manning for his post season failures while at the same time giving Favre a free pass for his.

It's nice that Favre has his ring. Same for Manning. Both are too good to not have won one. Neither is so great that they necessarily deserve a second one. September through December is just a prelude to January. January is where it counts. Win and you advance, lose and your heart is broken. The greatest players to have played the game have made their mark in the post season, not just the regular season. Neither Favre nor Manning have been anything special in the post season by any stretch of the imagination. Both QB's will undoubtedly end up in the HOF, but neither IMO will be remembered as being of the greatest to have played this game.

You are absolutely right about the entertainment value though. Favre undoubtedly was and is one of the most fun to watch. But it's not just entertainment to me. It's a serious passion. It's an emotional investment. To me it's about wins and losses and championships, not feel good stories that end in disappointment. When Favre threw that OT pick in the '07 NFCCG, it ruined all the fun and excitment from that season. One play wasted an entire season of greatness. And that's just one example. It wasn't the first time that happened. It wasn't the last time that happened. For that reason I think history won't look as kindly on Favre as some would like to think he should be. I firmly believe that history will remember the whole story, not just the better half.

[Gunakor]

...I am used to the hypocritical way the people here act...

Still awaiting an explaination of the hypocrisy you see here. Is not liking Favre being a hypocrit? How so? I think most people here that don't like Favre have been pretty clear about why they feel the way that they do, and I can find no hypocrisy in their explainations. For now I'll keep an open mind, because I'm actually very interested to hear where you're coming from when making these accusations. I just don't see it.

[gex]

For a second there, I thought you were talking about Peyton Manning's legacy. 2 super bowls, one win (where notably, he played like shit), one loss (where on a must have drive late in the 4th, he throws not just a pick, but a pick 6 to seal the game for the saints), then a slew of playoff exits, usually do in part to his poor play. Manning has not been a very successful post season QB, much like Favre.

What I am saying is, he has a ring. There are A LOT of all-time greats out there that don't. Is Dan Marino not an all-time great QB because he doesn't have rings? When it's all said and done, he will be remembered as one of the greatest QB's to play the game, and possibility the most liked, hated, feared, and diva at the position to ever play.

He holds all the records, is the most durable QB to ever play the game, and as was stated, most importantly he has his ring. Yes it's one. Yes there should of been more. Yes, he is a better QB then he has shown in big time playoff losses, because he showed it in the 90's in big time playoff wins, and even last season against dallas, a preseason SB favorite this year, he lit them up in the playoffs last year. He was even playing alright against the saints, and just failed late... which is something we are all too familiar with.

However, you can't deny he is/was a great player, and was extremely exciting to watch. He may not be your pick for a QB in the playoffs, (please, like I want anyone other than Joe Montana in the playoffs, MAYBE Bart Starr, though I don't know how well he would hold up in todays league) but I do know he has been a lot of fun to watch.

20 seasons in the NFL. He has been there from the very first time I watched a game to now, and through it all, has been entertaining to watch. I wish him well, and for his legacies sake I almost want him to get that 2nd ring, but I will never, ever, cheer for the vikings to win a SB.

AR, Packers, Driver... Woodson... lets bring Lombardi back home this year.

I could have been talking about Manning's career as well. It's a very fair comparison IMO. Both big time quarterbacks from September through November/December, both big time chokers in January. Believe me, I'm no more a Manning fan than I am a Favre fan. For the same reasons. Neither has been at their very best when they absolutely had to be. Both men have been asked to carry their teams, and both men have let their teams down. That's an undeniable fact. Though, I find it oddly strange that there are some people out there that harp on Manning for his post season failures while at the same time giving Favre a free pass for his.

It's nice that Favre has his ring. Same for Manning. Both are too good to not have won one. Neither is so great that they necessarily deserve a second one. September through December is just a prelude to January. January is where it counts. Win and you advance, lose and your heart is broken. The greatest players to have played the game have made their mark in the post season, not just the regular season. Neither Favre nor Manning have been anything special in the post season by any stretch of the imagination. Both QB's will undoubtedly end up in the HOF, but neither IMO will be remembered as being of the greatest to have played this game.

You are absolutely right about the entertainment value though. Favre undoubtedly was and is one of the most fun to watch. But it's not just entertainment to me. It's a serious passion. It's an emotional investment. To me it's about wins and losses and championships, not feel good stories that end in disappointment. When Favre threw that OT pick in the '07 NFCCG, it ruined all the fun and excitment from that season. One play wasted an entire season of greatness. And that's just one example. It wasn't the first time that happened. It wasn't the last time that happened. For that reason I think history won't look as kindly on Favre as some would like to think he should be. I firmly believe that history will remember the whole story, not just the better half.

So how many Quarterbacks we talking here...if they do not have multiple rings then in some form or another they choked when it mattered most, right?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Favre has choked more often than any other great QB in NFL history.

The horrible game losing interception against Dallas in the 1995 NFC Title Game when the Packers were driving for the lead in the 4th quarter

The poor throw to Chewy on 4th down in the Super Bowl against Denver

The 6 interceptions against the Rams (I don't put the blame for this much on him)

The dud against the Vikings (epitomized by the I'd rather underhand it three yards past the LOS than get hit)

The dud in his showdown against Michael Vick (first home playoff loss in Packers history)

The game losing interception heave to avoid getting hit against Philadelphia

The game losing interception on a poor throw to an open Donald Driver against the Giants

The game losing interception on a throw across his body in last year's NFC Title Game

[Gunakor]

For a second there, I thought you were talking about Peyton Manning's legacy. 2 super bowls, one win (where notably, he played like shit), one loss (where on a must have drive late in the 4th, he throws not just a pick, but a pick 6 to seal the game for the saints), then a slew of playoff exits, usually do in part to his poor play. Manning has not been a very successful post season QB, much like Favre.

What I am saying is, he has a ring. There are A LOT of all-time greats out there that don't. Is Dan Marino not an all-time great QB because he doesn't have rings? When it's all said and done, he will be remembered as one of the greatest QB's to play the game, and possibility the most liked, hated, feared, and diva at the position to ever play.

He holds all the records, is the most durable QB to ever play the game, and as was stated, most importantly he has his ring. Yes it's one. Yes there should of been more. Yes, he is a better QB then he has shown in big time playoff losses, because he showed it in the 90's in big time playoff wins, and even last season against dallas, a preseason SB favorite this year, he lit them up in the playoffs last year. He was even playing alright against the saints, and just failed late... which is something we are all too familiar with.

However, you can't deny he is/was a great player, and was extremely exciting to watch. He may not be your pick for a QB in the playoffs, (please, like I want anyone other than Joe Montana in the playoffs, MAYBE Bart Starr, though I don't know how well he would hold up in todays league) but I do know he has been a lot of fun to watch.

20 seasons in the NFL. He has been there from the very first time I watched a game to now, and through it all, has been entertaining to watch. I wish him well, and for his legacies sake I almost want him to get that 2nd ring, but I will never, ever, cheer for the vikings to win a SB.

AR, Packers, Driver... Woodson... lets bring Lombardi back home this year.

I could have been talking about Manning's career as well. It's a very fair comparison IMO. Both big time quarterbacks from September through November/December, both big time chokers in January. Believe me, I'm no more a Manning fan than I am a Favre fan. For the same reasons. Neither has been at their very best when they absolutely had to be. Both men have been asked to carry their teams, and both men have let their teams down. That's an undeniable fact. Though, I find it oddly strange that there are some people out there that harp on Manning for his post season failures while at the same time giving Favre a free pass for his.

It's nice that Favre has his ring. Same for Manning. Both are too good to not have won one. Neither is so great that they necessarily deserve a second one. September through December is just a prelude to January. January is where it counts. Win and you advance, lose and your heart is broken. The greatest players to have played the game have made their mark in the post season, not just the regular season. Neither Favre nor Manning have been anything special in the post season by any stretch of the imagination. Both QB's will undoubtedly end up in the HOF, but neither IMO will be remembered as being of the greatest to have played this game.

You are absolutely right about the entertainment value though. Favre undoubtedly was and is one of the most fun to watch. But it's not just entertainment to me. It's a serious passion. It's an emotional investment. To me it's about wins and losses and championships, not feel good stories that end in disappointment. When Favre threw that OT pick in the '07 NFCCG, it ruined all the fun and excitment from that season. One play wasted an entire season of greatness. And that's just one example. It wasn't the first time that happened. It wasn't the last time that happened. For that reason I think history won't look as kindly on Favre as some would like to think he should be. I firmly believe that history will remember the whole story, not just the better half.

So how many Quarterbacks we talking here...if they do not have multiple rings then in some form or another they choked when it mattered most, right?

Not necessarily. It could be a RB that fumbles the game away in overtime. It could be a LB that misses a tackle that leads to the winning TD. It could be that the teams surrounding those great QB's were not of a championship caliber to begin with. You can't just make a broad statement such as yours, suggesting that the QB is solely responsible for every win and every loss. But looking at specific games, and the specific plays that were the deciding factor in those games, Favre and Manning played on championship caliber teams that wasted opportunities because of the not so clutch play of the quarterback himself. That's not a broad look at it, rather a very specific assesment of how opportunities were wasted and who was responsible for wasting them.

Take that '07 NFCCG as an example. Yes, Al got burnt repeatedly. Grant couldn't get anything going on the ground. Yet at the end of the game Green Bay had the ball in overtime and needed just 35 yards or so for a reasonable FG opportunity to secure a Super Bowl berth. No guarantee they get there, to be certain, but the opportunity was there. There was no need to take any chances as neither the clock nor the score put Green Bay in an unfavorable position. Favre drops back in a clean pocket, has plenty of time to throw, has several open recievers including the one he eventually threw the ball to. It was an awful throw - good decision, but an awful throw. It was picked off and immediately put the Giants in position to steal that victory. End of opportunity.

Blame can be spread around for the reason why OT happened in the first place, and it should be, but the game wasn't lost in regulation. Perhaps it should have been won in regulation, and I don't blame Favre for the fact that it wasn't. But it was lost in overtime. For that, Favre must shoulder the blame. He wasn't great when he absolutely had to be. Whether it was the cold, the pressure, or whatever it was, he just didn't come through for his team when he absolutely needed to. It wasn't the first time, nor the last. For that reason, I don't think history will view him as one of the greatest players ever.

[Tarlam!]

Favre has choked more often than any other great QB in NFL history.

The dud in his showdown against Michael Vick (first home playoff loss in Packers history)


Not sure why you would put that loss on Bert. IIRC, that team was terribley depleted with injuries. And Vick had a career game. Unstoppable.

[Tarlam!]

Favre drops back in a clean pocket, has plenty of time to throw, has several open recievers including the one he eventually threw the ball to. It was an awful throw - good decision, but an awful throw. It was picked off and immediately put the Giants in position to steal that victory. End of opportunity.

You're being kind. DD was double covered. Grant was wide open. It was a discusting decision and a miserable throw.

Had it of been the last throw of his NFL career, we would collectively remember him fondly around here. But the fact is, Bert is bigger than the team or the NFL. His conduct off of the field is disgraceful.

[Gunakor]

Favre drops back in a clean pocket, has plenty of time to throw, has several open recievers including the one he eventually threw the ball to. It was an awful throw - good decision, but an awful throw. It was picked off and immediately put the Giants in position to steal that victory. End of opportunity.

You're being kind. DD was double covered. Grant was wide open. It was a discusting decision and a miserable throw.

Had it of been the last throw of his NFL career, we would collectively remember him fondly around here. But the fact is, Bert is bigger than the team or the NFL. His conduct off of the field is disgraceful.

Na, he was single covered and he had a yard or two cushion between him and the defender. Problem was, Favre threw it behind and to the side the defender was playing him. I had no problem with the decision. Driver was Favre's go to guy and appeared to have a step on the defender. Just a god awful throw. That's how I remember that play anyway.

[Patler]

How Favre is remembered will depend a lot on the outcome of this season.
If he plays well and the Vikings win the Super Bowl he will be remembered in a totally different light than if he throws another one away, for example. If they win it, much about his previous miscues will be forgotten. If he does it yet again, it will be a central factor in the Favre story. If the Vikings and Favre go quietly this year, the Favre story is already complete.

[Fritz]

You've nailed it, Patler. I would add though that if Favre and the Vikings play poorly this year, it might - oddly enough - erase some of the legacy of Favre and his clutch interceptions. I say this because I think if he plays poorly and the Vikes go nowhere, the new storyline will be that the old man stayed one year too long, and he'll be lumped in with guys like Johnny U. That won't be his whole legacy, for sure but will overtake some of the interception legacy.

[Fritz]

In thinking about Favre's reason for coming back after reading an article that mentioned how often Brent used the word "favor" in his press conference, it strikes me that he's set this up perfectly - probably subconsciously - for himself.

On the one hand, if the report about locker room dissatisfaction and the team's preference for Favre's play calling is true, then Favre gets to run that team and do what he wants. On the other hand, if it doesn't work out - well, he did it as a "favor" to "the guyz." So it's not his fault.

Hmmm. More on the psyche of that fascinating dude. And he is rather fascinating.

[packerbacker1234]

Favre drops back in a clean pocket, has plenty of time to throw, has several open recievers including the one he eventually threw the ball to. It was an awful throw - good decision, but an awful throw. It was picked off and immediately put the Giants in position to steal that victory. End of opportunity.

You're being kind. DD was double covered. Grant was wide open. It was a discusting decision and a miserable throw.

Had it of been the last throw of his NFL career, we would collectively remember him fondly around here. But the fact is, Bert is bigger than the team or the NFL. His conduct off of the field is disgraceful.

Na, he was single covered and he had a yard or two cushion between him and the defender. Problem was, Favre threw it behind and to the side the defender was playing him. I had no problem with the decision. Driver was Favre's go to guy and appeared to have a step on the defender. Just a god awful throw. That's how I remember that play anyway.

Yeah, I think people are trying to make the decision to throw it to his first read as being a worse decision then it really was. Yes, there were a few other options that were more open than Driver, but his very first read did have a few steps on his defender, and if the ball wasn't thrown so badly behind driver, it's a nice completion and no one is the wiser.

I mean, I don't blame favre for who he threw it too - I have no doubt that Driver was his first read, and his go to guy, on that play. He was also open enough to warrant a throw. Favre just made a bad pass.

It's one of the few situations in his career where the int wasn't really due to a bad decision, just a shitty throw, which is not something we are really use to seeing, as favre has always been pretty accurate with his passes. I think in this you saw the cold really affecting him. Not that it's a real excuse, but clearly the ball didn't go where he wanted it too.

[ThunderDan]

Favre drops back in a clean pocket, has plenty of time to throw, has several open recievers including the one he eventually threw the ball to. It was an awful throw - good decision, but an awful throw. It was picked off and immediately put the Giants in position to steal that victory. End of opportunity.

You're being kind. DD was double covered. Grant was wide open. It was a discusting decision and a miserable throw.

Had it of been the last throw of his NFL career, we would collectively remember him fondly around here. But the fact is, Bert is bigger than the team or the NFL. His conduct off of the field is disgraceful.

Na, he was single covered and he had a yard or two cushion between him and the defender. Problem was, Favre threw it behind and to the side the defender was playing him. I had no problem with the decision. Driver was Favre's go to guy and appeared to have a step on the defender. Just a god awful throw. That's how I remember that play anyway.

Yeah, I think people are trying to make the decision to throw it to his first read as being a worse decision then it really was. Yes, there were a few other options that were more open than Driver, but his very first read did have a few steps on his defender, and if the ball wasn't thrown so badly behind driver, it's a nice completion and no one is the wiser.

I mean, I don't blame favre for who he threw it too - I have no doubt that Driver was his first read, and his go to guy, on that play. He was also open enough to warrant a throw. Favre just made a bad pass.

It's one of the few situations in his career where the int wasn't really due to a bad decision, just a shitty throw, which is not something we are really use to seeing, as favre has always been pretty accurate with his passes. I think in this you saw the cold really affecting him. Not that it's a real excuse, but clearly the ball didn't go where he wanted it too.

To be read: Every other receiver on the play was more open than Donald Driver.

[MOBB DEEP]

This is the way it will be remembered.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ys-brettfavretimeline073009

Here’s a brief look back at the QB’s past three years, starting with a record-setting performance against the Vikings.

Favre receives a congratulatory hug from his wife Deanna following the Packers’ 23-16 victory over the Minnesota Vikings on Sept. 30, 2007. Favre threw his NFL record 421st touchdown in the first quarter.
(Jeff Gross/Getty Images)
2007
Sept. 30: Favre passes Dan Marino’s all-time touchdown pass record of 420 vs. the Vikings.

Packers’ season: The team won the NFC North with a 13-3 record and made the NFC championship game, but was defeated by the New York Giants 23-20. Favre finishes the regular season with 28 touchdown passes for 4,155 yards and 15 interceptions.

2008
January/February: Favre withdraws from Pro Bowl after an ankle injury

March 4: Favre announces he will retire.

March 6: Favre retires, gives tearful retirement press conference.

March 27: Favre tells coach Mike McCarthy and general manager Ted Thompson he made mistake by retiring.

June 20: Favre calls McCarthy with plans to unretire. McCarthy says team has moved on with new starter Aaron Rodgers(notes).

July 11: Asks for unconditional release to play for another team. Packers deny.

July 16: Packers file tampering charges against the Vikings.

July 29: Favre faxes paperwork to the NFL to be reinstated.


McCarthy
July 30: Packers president and CEO Mark Murphy meets with Favre in Mississippi to persuade Favre to remain retired. Source close to Favre says the team floated $20 million offer over 10 years for Favre to stay retired.

Aug. 3: NFL reinstates Favre.

Aug. 4: Favre reports to Packers training camp. Meets with head coach Mike McCarthy and general manager Ted Thompson and they agree to part ways.

Aug. 7: The Vikings are interested in Favre, but since he’s not a free agent the Packers refuse to trade him within the division, instead opting for a trade to the Jets for conditional fourth-round pick in the 2009 draft ($12 million salary).

Favre and the Jets lose to Seattle in Week 16.
Jets’ season: The team lost four of their last five games and missed the playoffs with an overall record of 9-7. Favre finished with 22 touchdown passes for 3,472 yards and 22 interceptions, including eight interceptions in the final four games.

Dec. 29: MRI reveals torn biceps tendon in Favre’s right shoulder, requiring arthroscopic surgery.

2009
Feb. 11: Favre tells Jets he will retire.


Childress
April 28: Jets waive Favre off their reserved/retired list for unknown reasons. Favre is free to sign with any team should he unretire. Jets selected former USC QB Mark Sanchez(notes) in the NFL draft three days earlier.

May: Favre undergoes arthroscopic surgery to repair his injured right passing shoulder. Shoulder is reportedly not 100 percent.

May 7: Favre tells Vikings coach Matt Childress he wants to remain retired.

May 29-31: Vikings’ mandatory minicamp goes on without Favre. Tarvaris Jackson(notes), Sage Rosenfels(notes) and John David Booty(notes) are the quarterbacks.

June 15: Favre acknowledges on HBO’s “Joe Buck Live” that he’s “considering it” when asked about playing in 2009.

Vikings coach Brad Childress drives Favre from airport to training camp on Aug. 18.
(AP photo)
July 9: Vikings trainer Eric Sugarman visits Hattiesburg, Miss., for the second time since June to check Favre’s physical condition, according to the Star Tribune.

July 15: Tells the Associated Press that the Vikings will know by the July 30 start to their training camp whether he will be attending.

July 20: Vikings single-game tickets go on sale.

July 28: Brad Childress tells the Star Tribune that Favre will stay retired.

Aug. 18: Favre arrives at Vikings training camp to meet with coach Brad Childress and others and is in helmet and pads less than 90 minutes after arriving wearing practice jersey No. 4. AP reports a deal is done.

Sept. 13: Favre throws 1 TD pass and no INTs in a win over Cleveland in his regular-season debut for the Vikes.

Sept. 27: Favre’s TD pass to Greg Lewis with two seconds remaining beats the 49ers.

Oct. 5: In his first game against the Packers, Favre throws 3 TD passes as Minnesota improves to 4-0.

Nov. 1: In his first game back at Lambeau Field, Favre throws 4 TD passes as Minnesota improves to 7-1.

Dec. 20: Favre refuses Childress’ request to come out of the game during a loss to the Panthers.

2010

The Saints pounded Favre.
(Matt Stamey/US Presswire)
Jan. 17: Favre throws four 4 TD passes in an NFC divisional playoff win vs. the Cowboys.

Jan. 24: Favre throws a critical fourth-quarter pick in the NFC title game loss vs. the Saints.

May 21: Favre confirms on his website that he had arthroscopic surgery on his left ankle.

Aug. 3: Star Tribune reports that Favre informed the Vikings he would not return for a 20th season.

It is missing a few key points.

McCarthy and Thompson decide they will welcome him back. They secure a private jet from a Packers board member to visit Favre in person and seal the deal. Favre immediately backs down.

Favre allegedly tells Campen that the Vikings are interested in him, even though he is still under contract with the Packers.

McCarthy asks Favre if he was 100 percent committed to a return. "He said, 'No, no, I'm not saying I'm there yet."

McCarthy told Favre, point-blank, that he didn’t want to turn on his TV or computer after the meeting ended and see quotes from Favre, anonymous or otherwise, discussing the interaction. Yet on Tuesday morning, an article turned up on espn.com with numerous quotes from Favre. The quarterback said, among other things, the Packers had “planted” inaccurate stories about him and that “they tried to buy me off to stay retired” – a reference to the reported 10-year, $20-million marketing deal the team offered. Favre also provided specifics of his conversation with McCarthy, in direct violation of the coach’s previously stated wishes.

The $20-million deal was offered to Favre long before he ever began talking about returning.

Another key point missed - While on the Jets, Favre talks to the Lions with tips on the Packers' offense.

This passes for journalism? Who the hell wrote this thing, Mobb Deep??

hehehe

watsup bossy?

[packers11]

This passes for journalism? Who the hell wrote this thing, Mobb Deep??



:lol: :lol:

[sharpe1027]

This passes for journalism? Who the hell wrote this thing, Mobb Deep??



:lol: :lol:

I've been misquoted. :lol:

[packers11]

This passes for journalism? Who the hell wrote this thing, Mobb Deep??



:lol: :lol:

I've been misquoted. :lol:

:oops:

[vince]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/The-seven-most-revealing-quotes-from-Favre-s-pre;_ylt=AndT3eqUnlonLGpCtF2YN6PSrYZ4?urn=nfl-263424


The seven most revealing quotes from Favre's press conference

By Chris Chase

Brett Favre sounded tired, and it was only his first day back on the job.
In his press conference on Wednesday afternoon in Minnesota, Favre sounded like a man whose decision to return to football was made for him. Whereas in the past three years there was always the underlying feeling that Favre's return to training camp was the end of a long ruse, this time felt different.

Shutdown Corner watched his return press conference and picked out the seven most revealing quotes about the motivation of his return:

7. "There's nothing left for me to prove. I'm here to have fun."
He constantly reiterated that he had nothing left to prove by returning to football, a self-fulfilling prophecy if there ever was one. That was a response to a question nobody asked. I don't think people have ever believed Favre has something to prove. Why the defense mechanism?

As for the "I'm here to have fun," line; did John Madden write this speech? The funny part is that Favre delivered the line without a trace of humor or irony. It was just one of a dozen or so lines that suggest he has little sense of self-awareness about his "Hamlet in a helmet" routine.

6. "I was even amazed [at how I played last year]. To think that I could surpass that this year? First of all, I don't need to. Because as well as I've played, by far the best I've ever played in my career, it wasn't enough ... Part of me said, it was such a great year, it would be easy to say, you can't play any better, why even try?"

Favres' presser was a lesson in expectation management 101. Whether it's because he believes he won't be as good as last year or because he wants to cover himself in case he's not doesn't matter.

5. "My wife always says I look at things negatively more than I should."
One gets the impression that Deanna wasn't as on board with this decision as she has been in the past. Favre also mentioned that his family will be happy when he finally stops playing.

4. "No one is deserving or worthy of all the attention. Heck, I'm not."
If you buy that Favre believes he's not deserving or worthy of all the attention, then you probably were surprised that he's coming back to play.
3. "It really came down to when those guys [Hutchinson, Allen and Longwell] were like, 'hey if you can do us one favor.' Now that's a pretty big favor."

This was a recurring theme during the presser, Favre sounding like a man who came back to football not because he wanted to, but because it was expected of him. Was it all another act in the 40-year-old's ongoing melodrama, the one in which he plays the role of quarterback-turned-martyr, sacrificing his retirement for the good of the teammates he loves? Or had Favre set his sights on retirement, only to be pulled back in by a team who knew that the path to the Super Bowl couldn't be navigated by Tarvaris Jackson?

2. "People are making trips down to Hattiesburg and it was sincere stuff. The things I was hearing, the letters I was reading, the billboards I was passing, I just felt like I owe it to this organzation to give it one more try. I have no idea how it will pan out, but all I can promise you is that I'll give my best."

Favre actually had one more promise to make though ...

1. "I can promise you this, not that I had ever set out as a goal to play 20 years, but 20 years and I'm done. This is the last year of my contract."
Yes, he outdid himself and actually retired for 2011 minutes after declaring his intentions to play in 2010. (He's truly the Michelangelo of waffling.) But there was something different about the way he said it Wednesday. He seemed to be anticipating retirement, a sentiment you never got even after he faced the media following his crippling interception in the NFC championship.

For the first time I can remember, Favre's uncertainty seemed genuine. Up until Wednesday afternoon, I always knew Brett Favre wanted to play football. After his hour-long press conference, I'm not so sure.
And here are a couple more from his PC that I thought were revealing...

“I was so close to getting these guys to the super bowl. And I’m thinking, even though I don’t owe them something, I led ‘em, led ‘em, led ‘em and maybe I should give it one more try.”
How impressive that you were able to do that by yourself. What a "big favor" you're doing the team, the state of Minnesota and the entire country for that matter, by gracing them with your presence once again.

“The way that I played last year was great, but you talk about setting the bar high…. I didn’t do myself any favors.”
It's clear that Brett Favre was always egotistical, but he has become outwardly and shamelessly egomaniacal in his later years. It's really too bad.

[MOBB DEEP]

Because I had SO many psych evaluations to compose b/c prince george's county schools start next week i was just now able to watch the favre presser. and i gota say i enjoyed it; especially when he said "no one deserves or is worthy of this hoopla or attention..."

i know some morons around here (hehe, j/k) and even schmucks in the media like tedy bruschi will be naysayers but i actually believe with wisdom, enlightenment, life's trials, etc brett and others of his ilk (even the "common" person) can gain some perspective. all he does is chuck a football like all lebron does is put a ball thru a hoop! how significant is that REALLY? not like they're curing cancer, poverty, hate crimes, etc. im actually a "fan" of special ed teachers who take the extra time to help the difficult children from drug abusing families who cant sit still. these heroes get paid pennies, yet favre is given a raise with incentives? incredible - not favres fault of course; bus cook just did his job and took advantage of the vikes desperation (the same thing any one else would do if their employer beg them to come to work and take more loot!)

im a staunch favre supporter b/c of the memories with the pack, i dig his swag, and he's ENTERTAINED me for TWO DECADES. but once he finally retires pro sports will be WAY down on the totem pole for me. someone sent email to espn last month stating my sentiments: with roids, free agency, newbies lack of passion ala haynesworth, dez bryant lackn respect for the shield to a certain extent, lebrons "decision" making bill russell turnover in his grave, redic salaries, loss of integrity amongst nba players, etc etc the allure of pro sports is lessening for the evolved being. clearly, it's just a microcosm of society in general which is going to hell in hand basket. but i cant get up for much of this any more save favre and rondo/celts for about 18 more months. so many more worth while entities in which to put my energy/passion...maybe i will do peace corps; im almost 40 now and am increasingly becoming concerned about MY legacy (to hades with favre's lol)..dont want to be known merely for the women ive been with, loot ive made, and the teams i cheered for

ok, that was my therapy

all who let brett (and any other person you dont know) get under your skin need therapy as well. im SO free of my disdain for TT and its refreshing,,he's actually a GREAT gm and im impressed with the handling of the pack - should be great for years!

now, we KNOW brett never imagined he would do the things he did in the nfl back when he was in middle school. so im sure he's pleased with wat he accomplished and at the end of the day THATS wat matters; not wat the rats here think..everyone cant be VICK DA GREAT and RUN FOR THAT DARN 1ST DOWN IN NFCCG FOOL!

dayum

[Scott Campbell]

Welcome back MOBB!

We've definitely been missing the yang from our yin lately.

[vince]

How ironic is it that Brett Favre helps Packer fans support and admire Aaron Rodgers all the more.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Not sure why you would put that loss on Bert. IIRC, that team was terribley depleted with injuries. And Vick had a career game. Unstoppable.

Favre went 20 of 42 for 247 yards with 1 TD (when the Packers were already down 24-0), 2 interceptions, and a lossed fumble.

First drive of the game:


The mistakes started for the Packers on their initial possession. On 3rd-and-7, Favre badly overthrew wide receiver Terry Glenn and free safety Keion Carpenter came up with the first of his two interceptions at the Green Bay 38.

I don't remember them being badly injured. I remember them having some injuries in the Rams game, but Green, Freeman, Glenn, Bubba, etc. played in the Atlanta game--and they managed 7 points. Perhaps the year Clifton was injured, but it doesn't sound like they were ravaged.

[Tony Oday]

You know Favre is perfect for the Vikings...The Vikings are celebrating 50 years of futility this year and Favre hasnt won a thing in 14 years. hmmm

[vince]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/19/rod-woodson-has-lost-resp_n_686089.html

Rod Woodson: I Have Lost Respect For Brett Favre

The Brett Favre retirement saga continued Wednesday when the veteran quarterback formally announced his return to the NFL for a 20th season. The 40-year-old received plenty of criticism when it was reported that he told teammates he would retire two weeks earlier.

Now that Favre is coming back, more people are taking shots at him.

NFL Network analyst and Hall of Famer Rod Woodson said on "NFL Total Access" that he has lost respect for Favre.

"I've lost respect for Brett in what he's done the last five years, and I've lost some respect to where an organization has to go to win a Super Bowl," Woodson said.

He also said a "a lot of veterans in the National Football League, even though I've been retired for seven years, are really tired of this."

Woodson isn't the only one with an unkind word for the Vikings QB. Famous former safety Rodney Harrison blasted Favre earlier in the month, and Favre's former teammate said the quarterback is "not good at anything" besides football.

[Tarlam!]

Favre drops back in a clean pocket, has plenty of time to throw, has several open recievers including the one he eventually threw the ball to. It was an awful throw - good decision, but an awful throw. It was picked off and immediately put the Giants in position to steal that victory. End of opportunity.

You're being kind. DD was double covered. Grant was wide open. It was a discusting decision and a miserable throw.

Had it of been the last throw of his NFL career, we would collectively remember him fondly around here. But the fact is, Bert is bigger than the team or the NFL. His conduct off of the field is disgraceful.

Na, he was single covered and he had a yard or two cushion between him and the defender. Problem was, Favre threw it behind and to the side the defender was playing him. I had no problem with the decision. Driver was Favre's go to guy and appeared to have a step on the defender. Just a god awful throw. That's how I remember that play anyway.

Yeah, I think people are trying to make the decision to throw it to his first read as being a worse decision then it really was. Yes, there were a few other options that were more open than Driver, but his very first read did have a few steps on his defender, and if the ball wasn't thrown so badly behind driver, it's a nice completion and no one is the wiser.

I mean, I don't blame favre for who he threw it too - I have no doubt that Driver was his first read, and his go to guy, on that play. He was also open enough to warrant a throw. Favre just made a bad pass.

It's one of the few situations in his career where the int wasn't really due to a bad decision, just a shitty throw, which is not something we are really use to seeing, as favre has always been pretty accurate with his passes. I think in this you saw the cold really affecting him. Not that it's a real excuse, but clearly the ball didn't go where he wanted it too.

To be read: Every other receiver on the play was more open than Donald Driver.

I just looked again at the photo. The pocket was there. Driver had half a step on his defender. Grant was alone with 20 yards of daylight behind him. Two other receivers have at least two and five steps on their defenders. It was a disgusting decision and a digusting throw.

http://archive.profootballtalk.com/FavreThrow.jpg

[mraynrand]

Favre's former teammate said the quarterback is "not good at anything" besides football.

He seems to have some talent for photography.

[mraynrand]

Not sure why you would put that loss on Bert. IIRC, that team was terribley depleted with injuries. And Vick had a career game. Unstoppable.

Favre went 20 of 42 for 247 yards with 1 TD (when the Packers were already down 24-0), 2 interceptions, and a lossed fumble.

First drive of the game:


The mistakes started for the Packers on their initial possession. On 3rd-and-7, Favre badly overthrew wide receiver Terry Glenn and free safety Keion Carpenter came up with the first of his two interceptions at the Green Bay 38.

I don't remember them being badly injured. I remember them having some injuries in the Rams game, but Green, Freeman, Glenn, Bubba, etc. played in the Atlanta game--and they managed 7 points. Perhaps the year Clifton was injured, but it doesn't sound like they were ravaged.

Harv, they were really beat up that year. Green and Glenn both had suffered major injuries (I'm surprised Green was in that game with his knee all messed up). Driver only played a half with a terrible shoulder. The Packers had lost Tauscher, Clifton, Sharper, Reynolds (I know - no biggy, right?), Joe Johnson, Davenport, during the season, and had played without Green and Glenn (missed two games each) late in the season. Gilbert was a shadow (a big shadow) of his former self (10-12 games played in?), and I think Holliday was out for 6 games too.

Anyway, it was a mess. Still, Favre did not play well in the playoff game (but recall that he too had a pretty severe knee injury against Washington and really wasn't playing full strength the rest of the season).

I hated that year more than just about any other because the Pack was 8-1 and looking great until the injuries started snowballing (beginning with Tauscher at MN and pretty much knowing it was over with Clifton being cheap-shotted by Sapp at Tampa).

[Bossman641]

Because I had SO many psych evaluations to compose b/c prince george's county schools start next week i was just now able to watch the favre presser. and i gota say i enjoyed it; especially when he said "no one deserves or is worthy of this hoopla or attention..."

And yet, it is clear for everyone to see that that is exactly what he enjoys. Loves to be begged, loves to be chased, loves to be wanted and needed.


I was so close to getting these guys to the super bowl. And I’m thinking, even though I don’t owe them something, I led ‘em, led ‘em, led ‘em and maybe I should give it one more try

What's up Mobb. Good to have you back.

[LP]

Imagine how TJack and Sage feel about this--especially considering that Sage was brought in to start right before Favre got there...

I'd love to see TJack publicly demand a trade. I realize he doesn't have a lot of value, and I'm sure he knows that as well, but it would shine the spotlight right on Chilly and the organization as to how they have treated him. "Trade me or cut me now, so I can go somewhere and have a legitimate chance to play."

Hmmm. Didn't somebody else say something along those lines a couple years ago?

[packerbacker1234]

Favre drops back in a clean pocket, has plenty of time to throw, has several open recievers including the one he eventually threw the ball to. It was an awful throw - good decision, but an awful throw. It was picked off and immediately put the Giants in position to steal that victory. End of opportunity.

You're being kind. DD was double covered. Grant was wide open. It was a discusting decision and a miserable throw.

Had it of been the last throw of his NFL career, we would collectively remember him fondly around here. But the fact is, Bert is bigger than the team or the NFL. His conduct off of the field is disgraceful.

Na, he was single covered and he had a yard or two cushion between him and the defender. Problem was, Favre threw it behind and to the side the defender was playing him. I had no problem with the decision. Driver was Favre's go to guy and appeared to have a step on the defender. Just a god awful throw. That's how I remember that play anyway.

Yeah, I think people are trying to make the decision to throw it to his first read as being a worse decision then it really was. Yes, there were a few other options that were more open than Driver, but his very first read did have a few steps on his defender, and if the ball wasn't thrown so badly behind driver, it's a nice completion and no one is the wiser.

I mean, I don't blame favre for who he threw it too - I have no doubt that Driver was his first read, and his go to guy, on that play. He was also open enough to warrant a throw. Favre just made a bad pass.

It's one of the few situations in his career where the int wasn't really due to a bad decision, just a shitty throw, which is not something we are really use to seeing, as favre has always been pretty accurate with his passes. I think in this you saw the cold really affecting him. Not that it's a real excuse, but clearly the ball didn't go where he wanted it too.

To be read: Every other receiver on the play was more open than Donald Driver.

I just looked again at the photo. The pocket was there. Driver had half a step on his defender. Grant was alone with 20 yards of daylight behind him. Two other receivers have at least two and five steps on their defenders. It was a disgusting decision and a digusting throw.

http://archive.profootballtalk.com/FavreThrow.jpg

Do you play QB in the NFL? do I? No, but from what I understand (having played QB in HS a bit) is that you have a read progression, and if your first read is open, 99% of the time you throw it right away, without even looking at anything else. Why? You may not have time to survey the whole field,a nd when option one is open, what else are you looking for? You throw it to option 1.

Yes, others were "more open" - but when your frist read is open, from what i understand, you throw it pretty much right away. Driver WAS open. It may be a half step, a full step, whatever, but he was plenty open. Favre throws it to the outside like he is supposed to and it's a completion.

And in glancing at that photo, there was a guy just about ready to give favre a nice pop. Note our blocker apparently tackling the one giant right to the right of favre. He pulls the ball back in and starts lookjing around, he gets creamed. Best case you could of hoped for that didn't involve a throw to driver was him glancing and seeing grant.

However, his pocket was "gone" (see picture) and driver was open and was the clear first read of the play.

The only reason we even talka bout it is because of how bad the throw was. Start breaking down game tape of every qb's pass, and I am sure you will find multiple other WR's who may have been more open, but because the firsty read was open "enough", that is where the throw went.

The best throw is a dump off to grant, driver blocks his guy, he goes outside driver down the sideline and gets pushed out by the saftey, about a 15 or 20 yard gain, asuming grant actually catches the ball, something he isn't the best at.

Again though, favre makes a better throw to driver and were not even talking about it. This is football. First read is open, you throw it. You don't know if anyone else is open and by the time you scan the field and come back, driver may not be open (in terms of thought process. You look, driver is doing an out, he has the defender behind him leaving an outside pass for a easy catch, and favre blew the throw.

I am not going to call that a poor decision. First read, he's open, you throw it.

[Gunakor]

Favre drops back in a clean pocket, has plenty of time to throw, has several open recievers including the one he eventually threw the ball to. It was an awful throw - good decision, but an awful throw. It was picked off and immediately put the Giants in position to steal that victory. End of opportunity.

You're being kind. DD was double covered. Grant was wide open. It was a discusting decision and a miserable throw.

Had it of been the last throw of his NFL career, we would collectively remember him fondly around here. But the fact is, Bert is bigger than the team or the NFL. His conduct off of the field is disgraceful.

Na, he was single covered and he had a yard or two cushion between him and the defender. Problem was, Favre threw it behind and to the side the defender was playing him. I had no problem with the decision. Driver was Favre's go to guy and appeared to have a step on the defender. Just a god awful throw. That's how I remember that play anyway.

Yeah, I think people are trying to make the decision to throw it to his first read as being a worse decision then it really was. Yes, there were a few other options that were more open than Driver, but his very first read did have a few steps on his defender, and if the ball wasn't thrown so badly behind driver, it's a nice completion and no one is the wiser.

I mean, I don't blame favre for who he threw it too - I have no doubt that Driver was his first read, and his go to guy, on that play. He was also open enough to warrant a throw. Favre just made a bad pass.

It's one of the few situations in his career where the int wasn't really due to a bad decision, just a shitty throw, which is not something we are really use to seeing, as favre has always been pretty accurate with his passes. I think in this you saw the cold really affecting him. Not that it's a real excuse, but clearly the ball didn't go where he wanted it too.

To be read: Every other receiver on the play was more open than Donald Driver.

I just looked again at the photo. The pocket was there. Driver had half a step on his defender. Grant was alone with 20 yards of daylight behind him. Two other receivers have at least two and five steps on their defenders. It was a disgusting decision and a digusting throw.

http://archive.profootballtalk.com/FavreThrow.jpg

The general consensus here is that Grant cannot be trusted in the passing game. Not that I necessarily agree with that, but it's possible Brett didn't want to go there because he didn't trust it either.

[cheesner]

Do you play QB in the NFL? do I? No, but from what I understand (having played QB in HS a bit) is that you have a read progression, and if your first read is open, 99% of the time you throw it right away, without even looking at anything else. Why? You may not have time to survey the whole field,a nd when option one is open, what else are you looking for? You throw it to option 1.

Yes, others were "more open" - but when your frist read is open, from what i understand, you throw it pretty much right away. Driver WAS open. It may be a half step, a full step, whatever, but he was plenty open. Favre throws it to the outside like he is supposed to and it's a completion.

And in glancing at that photo, there was a guy just about ready to give favre a nice pop. Note our blocker apparently tackling the one giant right to the right of favre. He pulls the ball back in and starts lookjing around, he gets creamed. Best case you could of hoped for that didn't involve a throw to driver was him glancing and seeing grant.

However, his pocket was "gone" (see picture) and driver was open and was the clear first read of the play.

The only reason we even talka bout it is because of how bad the throw was. Start breaking down game tape of every qb's pass, and I am sure you will find multiple other WR's who may have been more open, but because the firsty read was open "enough", that is where the throw went.

The best throw is a dump off to grant, driver blocks his guy, he goes outside driver down the sideline and gets pushed out by the saftey, about a 15 or 20 yard gain, asuming grant actually catches the ball, something he isn't the best at.

Again though, favre makes a better throw to driver and were not even talking about it. This is football. First read is open, you throw it. You don't know if anyone else is open and by the time you scan the field and come back, driver may not be open (in terms of thought process. You look, driver is doing an out, he has the defender behind him leaving an outside pass for a easy catch, and favre blew the throw.

I am not going to call that a poor decision. First read, he's open, you throw it.
I disagree that Driver is open. They may complete it only if its a perfect pass, but he isn't open. The CB has the angle and can easily jump the route in this situation. Driver is down field about 15 yards on the out route. That route probably took over 2 seconds to develop. Driver was not necessarily the first read. I believe that the play was meant for a short dump to Grant - looks like he passed up his block to get open - all the WRs are taking their coverage out of the middle to open it up. I think they keep Grant in if Driver is the first read and the pass is likely to go there.

My take: Very bad decision. Very bad throw.

[MJZiggy]

Favre drops back in a clean pocket, has plenty of time to throw, has several open recievers including the one he eventually threw the ball to. It was an awful throw - good decision, but an awful throw. It was picked off and immediately put the Giants in position to steal that victory. End of opportunity.

You're being kind. DD was double covered. Grant was wide open. It was a discusting decision and a miserable throw.

Had it of been the last throw of his NFL career, we would collectively remember him fondly around here. But the fact is, Bert is bigger than the team or the NFL. His conduct off of the field is disgraceful.

Na, he was single covered and he had a yard or two cushion between him and the defender. Problem was, Favre threw it behind and to the side the defender was playing him. I had no problem with the decision. Driver was Favre's go to guy and appeared to have a step on the defender. Just a god awful throw. That's how I remember that play anyway.

Yeah, I think people are trying to make the decision to throw it to his first read as being a worse decision then it really was. Yes, there were a few other options that were more open than Driver, but his very first read did have a few steps on his defender, and if the ball wasn't thrown so badly behind driver, it's a nice completion and no one is the wiser.

I mean, I don't blame favre for who he threw it too - I have no doubt that Driver was his first read, and his go to guy, on that play. He was also open enough to warrant a throw. Favre just made a bad pass.

It's one of the few situations in his career where the int wasn't really due to a bad decision, just a shitty throw, which is not something we are really use to seeing, as favre has always been pretty accurate with his passes. I think in this you saw the cold really affecting him. Not that it's a real excuse, but clearly the ball didn't go where he wanted it too.

To be read: Every other receiver on the play was more open than Donald Driver.

I just looked again at the photo. The pocket was there. Driver had half a step on his defender. Grant was alone with 20 yards of daylight behind him. Two other receivers have at least two and five steps on their defenders. It was a disgusting decision and a digusting throw.

http://archive.profootballtalk.com/FavreThrow.jpg

Do you play QB in the NFL? do I? No, but from what I understand (having played QB in HS a bit) is that you have a read progression, and if your first read is open, 99% of the time you throw it right away, without even looking at anything else. Why? You may not have time to survey the whole field,a nd when option one is open, what else are you looking for? You throw it to option 1.

Yes, others were "more open" - but when your frist read is open, from what i understand, you throw it pretty much right away. Driver WAS open. It may be a half step, a full step, whatever, but he was plenty open. Favre throws it to the outside like he is supposed to and it's a completion.

And in glancing at that photo, there was a guy just about ready to give favre a nice pop. Note our blocker apparently tackling the one giant right to the right of favre. He pulls the ball back in and starts lookjing around, he gets creamed. Best case you could of hoped for that didn't involve a throw to driver was him glancing and seeing grant.

However, his pocket was "gone" (see picture) and driver was open and was the clear first read of the play.

The only reason we even talka bout it is because of how bad the throw was. Start breaking down game tape of every qb's pass, and I am sure you will find multiple other WR's who may have been more open, but because the firsty read was open "enough", that is where the throw went.

The best throw is a dump off to grant, driver blocks his guy, he goes outside driver down the sideline and gets pushed out by the saftey, about a 15 or 20 yard gain, asuming grant actually catches the ball, something he isn't the best at.

Again though, favre makes a better throw to driver and were not even talking about it. This is football. First read is open, you throw it. You don't know if anyone else is open and by the time you scan the field and come back, driver may not be open (in terms of thought process. You look, driver is doing an out, he has the defender behind him leaving an outside pass for a easy catch, and favre blew the throw.

I am not going to call that a poor decision. First read, he's open, you throw it. I'm no QB having never played but was under the impression that under this circumstance, you're supposed to throw it to your own player...

[HowardRoark]

Just got back from my evening run.....and who do I run into? None other than Bert, Deanna and Hutch (lives down the street). At least Steve has the decency to say hello. Bert acts like something is in his eye. And yes Rand, he could stand to toss in a salad once in a while.

Deanna looked good.

[Joemailman]

The dump off to Grant was the best option. There were guys open to the left, but Favre was getting pressure from the left, and it might have been tough to get a pass off in that direction. Keep in mind that the photo everyone sees is after the ball has been released, not what things looked like as Favre made his decision.

Here's a bigger version of the infamous photo:

http://media2.620wtmj.com/wmn/last%20pass.jpg

[retailguy]

honestly, I'd have probably done the same thing with the ball, but... well... that might explain why I don't play football. :P

[mraynrand]

Just got back from my evening run.....and who do I run into? None other than Bert, Deanna and Hutch (lives down the street). At least Steve has the decency to say hello. Bert acts like something is in his eye. And yes Rand, he could stand to toss in a salad once in a while.

Deanna looked good.

That's funny. On my last run I ran into a family of skunks. (You write the rest of the joke)

[Fritz]

Just got back from my evening run.....and who do I run into? None other than Bert, Deanna and Hutch (lives down the street). At least Steve has the decency to say hello. Bert acts like something is in his eye. And yes Rand, he could stand to toss in a salad once in a while.

Deanna looked good.

Tossing a salad? Hmmm...shouldn't this thread be moved to the garbage can??

[gex]

Because I had SO many psych evaluations to compose b/c prince george's county schools start next week i was just now able to watch the favre presser. and i gota say i enjoyed it; especially when he said "no one deserves or is worthy of this hoopla or attention..."

i know some morons around here (hehe, j/k) and even schmucks in the media like tedy bruschi will be naysayers but i actually believe with wisdom, enlightenment, life's trials, etc brett and others of his ilk (even the "common" person) can gain some perspective. all he does is chuck a football like all lebron does is put a ball thru a hoop! how significant is that REALLY? not like they're curing cancer, poverty, hate crimes, etc. im actually a "fan" of special ed teachers who take the extra time to help the difficult children from drug abusing families who cant sit still. these heroes get paid pennies, yet favre is given a raise with incentives? incredible - not favres fault of course; bus cook just did his job and took advantage of the vikes desperation (the same thing any one else would do if their employer beg them to come to work and take more loot!)

im a staunch favre supporter b/c of the memories with the pack, i dig his swag, and he's ENTERTAINED me for TWO DECADES. but once he finally retires pro sports will be WAY down on the totem pole for me. someone sent email to espn last month stating my sentiments: with roids, free agency, newbies lack of passion ala haynesworth, dez bryant lackn respect for the shield to a certain extent, lebrons "decision" making bill russell turnover in his grave, redic salaries, loss of integrity amongst nba players, etc etc the allure of pro sports is lessening for the evolved being. clearly, it's just a microcosm of society in general which is going to hell in hand basket. but i cant get up for much of this any more save favre and rondo/celts for about 18 more months. so many more worth while entities in which to put my energy/passion...maybe i will do peace corps; im almost 40 now and am increasingly becoming concerned about MY legacy (to hades with favre's lol)..dont want to be known merely for the women ive been with, loot ive made, and the teams i cheered for

ok, that was my therapy

all who let brett (and any other person you dont know) get under your skin need therapy as well. im SO free of my disdain for TT and its refreshing,,he's actually a GREAT gm and im impressed with the handling of the pack - should be great for years!

now, we KNOW brett never imagined he would do the things he did in the nfl back when he was in middle school. so im sure he's pleased with wat he accomplished and at the end of the day THATS wat matters; not wat the rats here think..everyone cant be VICK DA GREAT and RUN FOR THAT DARN 1ST DOWN IN NFCCG FOOL!

dayum

You speak the truth....everybody else will get over the hurt feelings when its all done and said.

[pbmax]

Great hold by the fullback in that photo. I wish there was a way to have that camera for the whole game (or the coach's one) without having to wait for an NFL Sunday Night Game.

I agree with the read that it is odd that he used the phrase "favor" in his press conference multiple times. Favre has talked about football like this for some time, as though it is not the world to him and that he could leave it at any moment because of the trouble it causes him.

In his younger days, Favre preferred to talk about football as though he would play it even if they didn't pay him.

Both are exaggerations uttered to deflect attention. But it is an odd place to be as a football player that you need to pretend that playing the game holds no meaning for you other than to help teammates. It certainly makes it seem like you are not committed.

But the likely reason for this is that he doesn't want to get the Willie May/Joe Namath/John Unitas treatment of an athlete hanging around the game too long, and having no clear idea about his own limitations. By uttering phrases like this, he makes it seem like it isn't even his idea. Its like his neighbor stopped by to see if he wanted to come over for dinner.

But I am still fascinated by the why. What is the most important reason? Is it one more Super Bowl? One more season to ratchet his records up? Or is it because there is nothing like it, certainly nothing that pays like it? Probably a mixture of each.

But any of those reasons sufficient? He is so guarded about playing he is obviously very concerned about what he could lose. As a young man, he wanted it all and would pay any price. Can being a veteran make an effective substitute for his youthful thirst for glory?

I would argue that in one way, it cannot. As a young player, he feared Holmgren and learned to subsume some of his nuttier inclinations while Holmgren was coach. But as Favre got older and won more accolades, even Holmgren saw his turnovers ratchet up. He clearly now is willing to tolerate coaching only to a certain degree, when it meets his needs. If he is not willing to subsume himself to the team, to truly take a personal risk for the team (run for 5 yards instead of throw on a bum ankle and hamstring), can you win a title with him?

For this reason alone, I think his presence makes it harder to run though the playoffs. If he has to do something out of his comfort zone (which is always getting smaller) he is less likely to do what it takes to succeed. He may be a better choice than TJack or Sage, but there seems a limit to his upside. It seems odd to consider that Favre may have been only get to the playoffs QB since early this decade.

[RashanGary]

I think he stays away from football in the offseason so he can do a cycle of steroids outside the NFL testing policy. It's the reason that best fits his bizzare decisions.

[HowardRoark]

The Peter Principle is the principle that "in a hierarchy every employee tends to rise to his level of incompetence". In Brett's case, I think this equates to his departure from the NFL will be a complete train wreck.

[mraynrand]

I think he stays away from football in the offseason so he can do a cycle of steroids outside the NFL testing policy. It's the reason that best fits his bizzare decisions.

That's a pretty solid conspiracy theory.

[bobblehead]

I think he stays away from football in the offseason so he can do a cycle of steroids outside the NFL testing policy. It's the reason that best fits his bizzare decisions.

That's a pretty solid conspiracy theory.

I probably started this one a couple years ago, but I said HgH. Ruddy facial skin. Wears down as the season progresses (and he is tested). I was half joking, half serious. I have to admit he has managed to keep his skills longer in life than most before him....almost clemenesque.

[MOBB DEEP]

I gota feeling bretts fat tail may look bad tonight

cant blieve its on national tv! :shock:

[RashanGary]

Favre said he is 11 pounds heavier than last year but his waist is smaller. Favre said he has not been eating red meat or desserts and drinks only water.


But in addition to some expected soreness in his groin and hamstrings, Favre is suffering the effects of a sinus infection that is being treated with steroids and other prescription medication.



41 year old men don't gain 11 lbs of muscle and lose fat on their waste while working on the ranch. Then he gets these prescriptions for this nasty cold that happen to be steroid. . . .

Yeah, I have a strong suspicion what this guy does in the offseason, why he wants to avoid being around football so badly.

[RashanGary]

I gota feeling bretts fat tail may look bad tonight

cant blieve its on national tv! :shock:

Bert's not fat. He's gained 11 lbs of muscle in 5 months and lost fat. I'm 29 years old. Best I've done is to gain 10 lbs in a year working out 6 hours a week pretty hard. The guy is a 41 year old contradiction. Well, I guess Bonds and others have done similar things late in their careers recently so it is becoming the norm. Still, he is not fat. From the sound of it, he's in the best shape maybe of his life, at least the last several years. Good for him, to make those types of gains when most people are losing it. Not eating junk food and drinking water does wonders.

[packerbacker1234]

I gota feeling bretts fat tail may look bad tonight

cant blieve its on national tv! :shock:

Bert's not fat. He's gained 11 lbs of muscle in 5 months and lost fat. The guy is a 41 year old contradiction. Well, I guess Bonds and others have done similar things late in their careers recently so it is becoming the norm. Still, he is not fat. From the sound of it, it sounds like he is a shredded machine.
Roids is possible, or HGH or whatever. I can't dismiss that it's a possibilitiy, especially with how well his body has kept it together over all these years.

But, unlike so many other people that roid it up, his body has looked the same from pretty much 20 years in the NFL. He may have gained 11lbs of muscle this offseason, but that's not entirely impossible.

Dunno, it is possible, though I doubt it is anything against the policies in the NFL. After all, getting caught with that stuff wrecks his whole career.

[RashanGary]

And really, is there a better position in all of sports to do steroids late in a career than QB?

It's a position where experience is paramount. If you can keep your 20's physical ability into your early 40's and have 20 years of NFL experience under your belt. Favre has been in the NFL for as long as the youngest NFL players have been alive. And now he's gaining 11 lbs in 5 months while also trimming fat. The guy is going to be an animal. . . . .

Yeah, the only way this guy fades is if he gets injured. He's going to be a bad ass. I have a feeling.

[RashanGary]

Dunno, it is possible, though I doubt it is anything against the policies in the NFL. After all, getting caught with that stuff wrecks his whole career.

Notice how he's mysteriously on a group of medications for this nasty cold? Inclduded in those medications, "steroids". . . .

Gains 11 lbs, cuts fat. It's hard for anyone to gain like that, but to gain and cut fat. . . That's very hard to do in that short amount of time at any age. And how much could he have changed his routine. Was he just don't nothing hsi whole career and now he decided to start working out so he gained that type of muscle?


I expect Favre to have an amazing year. I don't think we should expect any drop off. In fact, I expect gains in his physical ability just listening to the shape he's in.

[packers11]

LOL this is some area 51 conspiracy theory stuff... I kinda like it...

[RashanGary]

11 lbs of muscle in 5 months, mysteriously on a steroid medication for a cold. Look at the era we're in.

This isn't area 51. You'd be putting your head in the sand if you didn't think it was very possible.

[packers11]

11 lbs of muscle in 5 months, mysteriously on a steroid medication for a cold. Look at the era we're in.

This isn't area 51. You'd be putting your head in the sand if you didn't think it was very possible.

11 lbs of muscle in 5 months I would say could come naturally... I'm only 21 though - at age 40... I do find that a little hard... I would just find it hard to believe that he would risk his whole legacy if he ever got caught taking roids... but you never know...

[RashanGary]

11 lbs of muscle in 5 months, mysteriously on a steroid medication for a cold. Look at the era we're in.

This isn't area 51. You'd be putting your head in the sand if you didn't think it was very possible.

11 lbs of muscle in 5 months I would say could come naturally... I'm only 21 though - at age 40... I do find that a little hard... I would just find it hard to believe that he would risk his whole legacy if he ever got caught taking roids... but you never know...

What makes it more amazing is if you're a couch potato and start lifting, your body has a ton of room to grow. Favre has always worked out. What can he be doing so different to get in that kind of shape. He looks in good shape. Looks like a 25 year old.

[packers11]

how was that not a fumble? If that was A-rod he would have got crushed the ball comes out - returned for td... am I wrong?

[RashanGary]

Brett is good for football though. He's a marked man. People want to kill this guy and I love watching it. I hope at some time this year he gets his 41 year old steroid injected body caved in, haha.

[red]

well, that was almost worth it

glad i sat through the pregame and listened to all chris collinsworth bull shit for 4 plays

[packerbacker1234]

how was that not a fumble? If that was A-rod he would have got crushed the ball comes out - returned for td... am I wrong?

There was debate on if A-Rod's was a fumble too, however, the ball never touched the ground, so the result would of been the same, just as an int instead of a fumble.

So... how was it not a fumble? Favre is laying on his back. Chances are the ball popped out when he hit the ground, which by rule, is not a fumble, because the ground can't cause a fumble.

A-Rod, last year, was still standing when the ball came out.


Come on, can you really be that cynical towards favre?


As for the roids, like I said, I don't think he would be doing anything AGAINST the drug policy. He may very well have taken roids (wouldn't surprise me if he took some after his surgery too), but if it all fits under the rulebook, there isn't much to say about it. I am sure he took roids for his surgery to help recover (which is a common process for many surgeries) and if he was taking some for a severe cold, then so be it. If it all fits under the rulebook and he isn't continually roiding all season long (IE Brian Cushing) than he'll be fine.

His body does look as good as it did in his mid twenties, but his body has simply always looked this good. I mean, Al Harris still looks amazing too, just like he did in his early twenties. It's possible to stay in the same shape by sticking to your routine.

As for the sudden gain in muscle, I am sure the roids had SOMETHING to do with it, but really, I think this all fit under the policy.

[RashanGary]

Tavaris looks better too. So does Alex Smith for that matter. A lot of teams play to stop the run in the preseason and play vanilla defense. Rodgers, Smith, Tavaris. I'm sure none of them are as good as they look. Rodgers can be not as good as he looks and still be the MVP though. He's looked amazing.

[bobblehead]

Dunno, it is possible, though I doubt it is anything against the policies in the NFL. After all, getting caught with that stuff wrecks his whole career.

Notice how he's mysteriously on a group of medications for this nasty cold? Inclduded in those medications, "steroids". . . .

Gains 11 lbs, cuts fat. It's hard for anyone to gain like that, but to gain and cut fat. . . That's very hard to do in that short amount of time at any age. And how much could he have changed his routine. Was he just don't nothing hsi whole career and now he decided to start working out so he gained that type of muscle?


I expect Favre to have an amazing year. I don't think we should expect any drop off. In fact, I expect gains in his physical ability just listening to the shape he's in.
The steroids you take for a cold...or more specifically, a lung infection are nothing like anabolic steroids, and they are more likely to make you retain water than build muscle.

[Lurker64]

Former Almost-Packer LaVar Arrington tweets:


They will be coming after favre it will be unbelievable to me if he makes it through the season.

I guess this makes sense, I mean... why not? If you let him stand there, he's going to throw completions. Why not see if you can hit the old man so he plays like he doesn't want to get hit anymore? I'm pretty sure he's not going to get up, start jawing with Warren Sapp, and throw touchdowns to Antonio Freeman.

[pbmax]

I think he stays away from football in the offseason so he can do a cycle of steroids outside the NFL testing policy. It's the reason that best fits his bizzare decisions.

That's a pretty solid conspiracy theory.
Except that the only year he was outside the steroid policy was prior to the 2008 season, when he actually filed retirement paperwork. Now if he was on the reserve/retired roster list (like after the Jets season), then the question is does he still get tested?

Also on the table, delaying reporting to camp might avoid the preseason test, unless they come back around to get everyone.

[pbmax]

11 lbs of muscle in 5 months, mysteriously on a steroid medication for a cold. Look at the era we're in.

This isn't area 51. You'd be putting your head in the sand if you didn't think it was very possible.
It would be corticosteroids. You may have the wrong parking garage Woodward.

Lets see if Mr. Ayn can back me up here.

[mraynrand]

withdrawn

[mraynrand]

PB, I honestly don't care. I only wrote that line about the conspiracy theory to express exactly what it says: It is a good conspiracy theory - meaning that a conspiracy theory is good if it can generate all sorts of speculation without any possibility of ever proving anything.

Maybe Favre is just lying: He says he gained 11 lbs, but no waistline. Maybe he just got a little heavier, fatter, maybe built some more muscle, and he is in denial. Hell, I'm 43, I run 30-40 miles a week, lift weights and I can't keep off the extra 10 pounds, even if I do build some muscle. Getting old is hell.

I like Favre, and hate the Vikings. I hope for Favre's sake he isn't taking roids. If he doesn't want to live much after football is over, taking roids is a good place to start, but it's hard to believe the guy wouldn't learn his lesson from his troubles with drugs and alcohol.

[Cheesehead Craig]

I gota feeling bretts fat tail may look bad tonight

cant blieve its on national tv! :shock:

Bert's not fat. He's gained 11 lbs of muscle in 5 months and lost fat. I'm 29 years old. Best I've done is to gain 10 lbs in a year working out 6 hours a week pretty hard. The guy is a 41 year old contradiction.

Maybe Partial is helping him with his workouts?

[Bossman641]

Is it my imagination or were the 49er fans booing when Favre came out? Not just normal booing, but really giving it to him when the offense walked out.

[Tony Oday]

I gota feeling bretts fat tail may look bad tonight

cant blieve its on national tv! :shock:

Bert's not fat. He's gained 11 lbs of muscle in 5 months and lost fat. I'm 29 years old. Best I've done is to gain 10 lbs in a year working out 6 hours a week pretty hard. The guy is a 41 year old contradiction.

Maybe Partial is helping him with his workouts?

He is just like Barry Bonds!

[pbmax]

PB, I honestly don't care. I only wrote that line about the conspiracy theory to express exactly what it says: It is a good conspiracy theory - meaning that a conspiracy theory is good if it can generate all sorts of speculation without any possibility of ever proving anything.
I'm with you. While I quoted your reply, mainly I was reflecting on the possibility that Favre was not as far from the steroid policy as Justin suggests. And you are right, nothing we are likely to learn will be definitive. Nothing short of a positive test, anyway.

[RashanGary]

Favre enough to run a cycle, get it out of his system and report back.


It's very hard to gain 11 lbs of muscle while losing fat at the same time at any age. If your body is deficient enough on calories to be losing fat, it's very hard to gain muscle at the same time, especially when you're supposed to be resting a sore ankle after the season and resting it yet again after a surgery.

While 40 year olds were breaking hallowed baseball records in, nobody wanted to discuss the possibility of PED's. Hardly fair to have that conversation if it's not proven. Now we have a 41 year old having career years in football at the very end of his career, doing things nobody his age has ever done. He's coming back with 11 lbs of muscle and trimmed fat while being away from the NFL testing policy for only 5 mos. The guys butt went from 40 year old saggy grandpa butt to looking like Aaron Rodgers in a Vikings uniform.

The era we're in, the signs we're seeing. It's possible it's not true, but it's very possible that it is true too.

Every word that comes out of Favre's mouth, he strikes me as a guy who will do or say whatever it takes to get what he wants. There wouldn't be a more likely guy anywhere to be cheating and lying than Brett Favre.

[RashanGary]

Is it my imagination or were the 49er fans booing when Favre came out? Not just normal booing, but really giving it to him when the offense walked out.

They were and they went absolutely berserk when Patrick Willis spiked him into the turf.

His days of guys pulling up at the end out of respect are over. I think Favre will get a little extra hot sauce on every hit this year.

[bobblehead]

27 would be losing his mind right now.

11 pounds of muscle is nothing, especially if he actually GAINED 11 pounds (meaning he really didn't lose fat).

Rand, I would guess that you aren't working out very optimally if you are having trouble ditching 10 lbs. and are only 43. Instead of running so far try HIIT training. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-intensity_interval_training (google HIIT and read up). Allso when you lift don't listen to the old guys who say shit like "at our age you should keep the weights light". BS, you gotta challenge your body. You MUST lift heavy to gain muscle mass. At least a few reps at the end after you are warmed up.

Also, at our age diet is paramount. If you eat McD's you are likely to sabatoge any weight loss. Try a protein shake daily, and never eat food outside of the form the good Lord put it in (read: fruit, veggies, meat, fish, eggs, dairy) No Pasts, no mayo, no whipped cream, ect. If you can't identify EVERY thing in a food, don't eat it (and no, Burger King is not actually all burger)

Now, if you do all that for a month I damn near garauntee you drop 7-8 lbs. assuming you have it to lose. As for me, I'm really good at telling you what to do, if only I had the will power to avoid chocolate chip cookies.

[mraynrand]

Every word that comes out of Favre's mouth, he strikes me as a guy who will do or say whatever it takes to get what he wants. There wouldn't be a more likely guy anywhere to be cheating and lying than Brett Favre.

That's a bit extreme. I can think of a lot of guys who are far more sociopathic than Favre!

P.S. Howard saw him up close and claims he looked a little chubby. I'm betting the guy gained some weight all around, including fat and muscle. It's possible he just got back together with his forlorn bowflex and also did some 'Hip Hop Abs' workouts...

http://www.getmovingcatalog.com/assets/images/HipHopAbs/hiphop.jpg

[pbmax]

(and no, Burger King is not actually all burger)
Blasphemer.

[mraynrand]

27 would be losing his mind right now.

11 pounds of muscle is nothing, especially if he actually GAINED 11 pounds (meaning he really didn't lose fat).

Rand, I would guess that you aren't working out very optimally if you are having trouble ditching 10 lbs. and are only 43. Instead of running so far try HIIT training. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-intensity_interval_training (google HIIT and read up). Allso when you lift don't listen to the old guys who say shit like "at our age you should keep the weights light". BS, you gotta challenge your body. You MUST lift heavy to gain muscle mass. At least a few reps at the end after you are warmed up.

Also, at our age diet is paramount. If you eat McD's you are likely to sabatoge any weight loss. Try a protein shake daily, and never eat food outside of the form the good Lord put it in (read: fruit, veggies, meat, fish, eggs, dairy) No Pasts, no mayo, no whipped cream, ect. If you can't identify EVERY thing in a food, don't eat it (and no, Burger King is not actually all burger)

Now, if you do all that for a month I damn near garauntee you drop 7-8 lbs. assuming you have it to lose. As for me, I'm really good at telling you what to do, if only I had the will power to avoid chocolate chip cookies.


Bobble, I'm not dropping those pounds cuz I'm a bit lazy and I won't give up beer, desserts and snacks! Relevant to Favre, I separated my shoulder pretty good about seven years ago. I was benching 225 and now I rarely go over 150. Point being that there are a lot of aches and pains as your body gets older that make it harder to work out the way you used to, and I bet it's that much harder for Favre with the beatings he's taken, and the chronic damage he has.

[HowardRoark]

27 would be losing his mind right now.

11 pounds of muscle is nothing, especially if he actually GAINED 11 pounds (meaning he really didn't lose fat).

Rand, I would guess that you aren't working out very optimally if you are having trouble ditching 10 lbs. and are only 43. Instead of running so far try HIIT training. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-intensity_interval_training (google HIIT and read up). Allso when you lift don't listen to the old guys who say shit like "at our age you should keep the weights light". BS, you gotta challenge your body. You MUST lift heavy to gain muscle mass. At least a few reps at the end after you are warmed up.

Also, at our age diet is paramount. If you eat McD's you are likely to sabatoge any weight loss. Try a protein shake daily, and never eat food outside of the form the good Lord put it in (read: fruit, veggies, meat, fish, eggs, dairy) No Pasts, no mayo, no whipped cream, ect. If you can't identify EVERY thing in a food, don't eat it (and no, Burger King is not actually all burger)

Now, if you do all that for a month I damn near garauntee you drop 7-8 lbs. assuming you have it to lose. As for me, I'm really good at telling you what to do, if only I had the will power to avoid chocolate chip cookies.


Bobble, I'm not dropping those pounds cuz I'm a bit lazy and I won't give up beer, desserts and snacks! Relevant to Favre, I separated my shoulder pretty good about seven years ago. I was benching 225 and now I rarely go over 150. Point being that there are a lot of aches and pains as your body gets older that make it harder to work out the way you used to, and I bet it's that much harder for Favre with the beatings he's taken, and the chronic damage he has.

Bobble gave me the same advice on the HIIT a year ago and I gave it a try and pulled my hamstring the first time I did it…..it’s not natural to do an all out sprint in your 40s. I am in better shape now, and have been doing it lately (it’s the only way my young kids can run with me) and it feels better, but it still feels as though at any moment you are going to do some damage to the legs. And I do stretch out.

[denverYooper]

Former Almost-Packer LaVar Arrington tweets:


They will be coming after favre it will be unbelievable to me if he makes it through the season.

I guess this makes sense, I mean... why not? If you let him stand there, he's going to throw completions. Why not see if you can hit the old man so he plays like he doesn't want to get hit anymore? I'm pretty sure he's not going to get up, start jawing with Warren Sapp, and throw touchdowns to Antonio Freeman.

It does make sense. And This year could be trouble for the Vikes offensively in general because their line looked in disarray no matter what string. The 9ers were all over the backfield last night.

Also, we are likely going to find out Chester Taylor's value as a 3rd down back in that offense.

The usual disclaimer about drawing inferences from preseason applies but I have a feeling that Favre's going to see more guys in his face this year.

[Bossman641]

Is it my imagination or were the 49er fans booing when Favre came out? Not just normal booing, but really giving it to him when the offense walked out.

They were and they went absolutely berserk when Patrick Willis spiked him into the turf.

His days of guys pulling up at the end out of respect are over. I think Favre will get a little extra hot sauce on every hit this year.

I agree. I think there are going to be a lot of players gunning for Favre this year, and I think he will find out that a lot of football fans in general are sick of his act.

[get louder at lambeau]

Can you imagine being a defensive player and going from being some no-name below average starter or decent backup to "The guy who ended Brett Favre's career?" That's a game changer.

[mraynrand]

Can you imagine being a defensive player and going from being some no-name below average starter or decent backup to "The guy who ended Brett Favre's career?" That's a game changer.

A certain notoriety comes from KOing a famous QB, especially if it's a cheap shot.

http://www.blogdownchicagobears.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/charles_martin-jim_mcmahon.jpg

[Patler]

The usual disclaimer about drawing inferences from preseason applies but I have a feeling that Favre's going to see more guys in his face this year.

I think one thing that was evident last year was that Favre can't elude rushers as easily as he did in the past. As a result, coming hard after him isn't as risky as it was just a few years ago when he would sidestep, or retreat and throw without even getting hit. He seems to get caught flat footed more often now, and does get hit more now even when he gets throw off. Blitzing and getting hits on him early might pay more dividends late in the game than it did through most of his career when blitzes didn't get to him that much.

[packerbacker1234]

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the way to beat any good QB is to go after them? People act like this is some new strategy or something to beat Favre - welcome to the NFL folks. You ALWAYS go after good QB's, no matter the age. Thats how you win.

Why it doesn't work? Most teams don't have the personel to pull it off all game long. They get down 3 scores and then the winning team sits on it. Just saying it is what it is. I agree he can't scramble as well as he use too, but he showed plenty of ability to extend plays still just last season.

Yeah, he got hit, ona double blitz up the middle that wasn't even blocked. 99% of all QB's get wrecked in that situation. I think favre is fine with his mobility. This ankle isn't some new injury, it's been there for awhile. He's fine.

[Lurker64]

For young or erratic and impulsive QBs, you often are best off doing your damnedest to confuse them. So zone blitzes, and making sure that receivers aren't where they're expected and defenders are where they're unexpected is very effective. Then again, getting in their face is too, but a zone blitz doesn't reduce the number of people in coverage like a casino blitz does.

For wily veterans and QBs with excellent recognition, blitzing is often very dangerous. It reduces the effectiveness of coverage, and if the quarterback is able to make a read and get the ball off before a defender can get to him, the defense is prone to give up big plays (Kurt Warner was brilliant at this). Most defensive coordinators hate giving up big plays almost to a pathological degree (c.f. some of Capers' more conservative game plans, Mike Nolan's affection for the Big Nickel, etc.).

Gregg Williams' big idea for the NFC Championship game was that he knew that he couldn't necessarily get to Favre before he gets the ball off, and he couldn't necessarily prevent the Vikings offense from making plays (big or otherwise), but he knew that if he blitzed emphatically enough he could make sure that he could hit the quarterback; and nobody (least of all 40 year old quarterbacks) likes getting hit. That ended up working out well for New Orleans.

So what this does is it presents a sort of blueprint that some NFL teams can execute (but not all). Specifically, if you can score enough points against the Vikings D to overcome all the plays you're going to give up while blitzing, and you can blitz creatively and aggressively enough, you can change the Vikings offense by hitting the old man. This might seem dirty, or against the spirit of the modern NFL's treating quarterbacks with kid gloves, but remember that the intent is not to injure the opposing quarterback, merely to get in his head and render him relatively ineffective. The thing is though, that the sort of hit a 30 year old quarterback can bounce right up from, might be the sort of hit that would injure a man 10 years his senior; and teams who play against the Vikings aren't really going to be overly saddened if they can usher #4 into a somewhat-premature(-and-permanent) retirement due to clean and legal hits, though obviously no football player wants to cause permanent damage to another.

The fact that Minnesota doesn't have a single running back adept at picking up the blitz, and neither Brad Childress nor Darrell Bevell (nor Brett Favre) are particularly innovative or brilliant playcallers, this could be problematic for the Vikings. The counter, of course, will be if Adrian Peterson plays out of his mind and teams have to worry about him more than Favre. The two Minnesota-Green Bay games last year demonstrated that, at least with last year's Vikings, it wasn't sufficient to shut down Peterson because Favre can beat you. The story of a lot of this year's Vikings games will probably be "Can Peterson beat you if you work to shut down Favre."

[Bossman641]

Good points Lurker. I don't think that the loss of Chester Taylor can be overstated - the dropoff between Taylor and AP seems to be pretty large when it comes to blitz pickup. Do the Vikings have a designated 3rd down back at this point or are they counting on AP for that role? Gerhart certainly isn't a 3rd down back. I suppose Albert Young could maybe fill the role

[Patler]

Yeah, he got hit, ona double blitz up the middle that wasn't even blocked. 99% of all QB's get wrecked in that situation. I think favre is fine with his mobility. This ankle isn't some new injury, it's been there for awhile. He's fine.

I don't think his ankle injury is the problem, I just think he isn't as nimble and as mobile as he once was, which is to be expected. I thought he showed that somewhat in NY and more last year. In 2007, behind a suspect Packer's O-line he was sacked just 15 times. His ability to negate the rush was obvious. In 2008 in NY with a decent line he was sacked 30 times. Last year, with a great running game and all-pros on the line, he was sacked 34 times, the most sacks he has had in 10 years The most since he quit running with the ball.

[sharpe1027]

I think favre is fine with his mobility. This ankle isn't some new injury, it's been there for awhile. He's fine.

He might be fine, but I think the point is he isn't where he used to be. He was always great at using a quick shift in the pocket to make a guy miss and then firing a strike down field. To some of us, he seems to have lost a lot of that quick movement over the past few years. All too often you see him back pedaling and either taking a big sack or hoisting the ball off his back foot. It's just not the same Favre.

Not that anyone in their right mind would expect him to play the same 10 years later, but it is still a factor in how well he will do.

[packerbacker1234]

Yeah, he got hit, ona double blitz up the middle that wasn't even blocked. 99% of all QB's get wrecked in that situation. I think favre is fine with his mobility. This ankle isn't some new injury, it's been there for awhile. He's fine.

I don't think his ankle injury is the problem, I just think he isn't as nimble and as mobile as he once was, which is to be expected. I thought he showed that somewhat in NY and more last year. In 2007, behind a suspect Packer's O-line he was sacked just 15 times. His ability to negate the rush was obvious. In 2008 in NY with a decent line he was sacked 30 times. Last year, with a great running game and all-pros on the line, he was sacked 34 times, the most sacks he has had in 10 years The most since he quit running with the ball.

Yeah but wasn't it noted last year, on many of the sacks he took, it wasn't because he couldn't extend the play, but because it was better he take the sack than scramble and make a poor decision? Taking sacks I think is part of what lead him to having such a better season statiscally. Despite the fact he use to be one of the best QB's int he league at avoiding pressure, bottom line is a lot of his ints happen on the same plays that he is scrambling around on.

Less scrambling, taking sacks when nothing is there = less turnovers. He also, on mayn of the sacks, pulled a peyton manning to avoid hits.


He seems to have finally learned how to play smartly as a QB, and it sucks it took this long for him to "get it".

[HarveyWallbangers]

Yeah but wasn't it noted last year, on many of the sacks he took, it wasn't because he couldn't extend the play, but because it was better he take the sack than scramble and make a poor decision? Taking sacks I think is part of what lead him to having such a better season statiscally. Despite the fact he use to be one of the best QB's int he league at avoiding pressure, bottom line is a lot of his ints happen on the same plays that he is scrambling around on.

Less scrambling, taking sacks when nothing is there = less turnovers. He also, on mayn of the sacks, pulled a peyton manning to avoid hits.

He seems to have finally learned how to play smartly as a QB, and it sucks it took this long for him to "get it".

Funny since Rodgers gets criticized any time he takes a sack. There's an option besides taking a sack and throwing an interception, and that's throwing the ball away. I believe the truth is somewhere in the middle. I think Brett didn't force a lot of balls last year. That's good. I think he wasn't quite as able to avoid the pressure and throw the ball. That's not so good. I think Rodgers just had to learn the happy medium between holding onto the ball too long and trying to make a play.

[Fritz]

I was actually thinking along the lines of Packerbacker1234's first post - gee, isn't that everyone's strategy for every QB? - when I read Patler's and Lurker's assessments. And they both explain it well.

So I agree with them - this is, in some respects, a new strategy.

As for Packerbacker's claim that Favre has finally learned to play smartly, may I be the first to politely suggest that you go back and take a look at the last pass Favre threw last season?

[packerbacker1234]

I was actually thinking along the lines of Packerbacker1234's first post - gee, isn't that everyone's strategy for every QB? - when I read Patler's and Lurker's assessments. And they both explain it well.

So I agree with them - this is, in some respects, a new strategy.

As for Packerbacker's claim that Favre has finally learned to play smartly, may I be the first to politely suggest that you go back and take a look at the last pass Favre threw last season?

SUre it was a poor decision, but of any time in his career to make a bad choice, that was one time I just can't blame him per say. THere was a penalty the play before that even put the ball in his hands, he already HAD THEM in position to win with what is a easily makeable FG for Longwell, and the coaches screwed that one up.

The pass was a bad decision, but the man was beaten. All day long. He played very well, especially given the damaging, and illegal, hits he was taking. He should of ran, should of thrown it away, should of never one back across his body - but man, I was surprised he was still standing at that point. They already had the game won and the coaches fuck up was far more inexcusable than favre's. You do NOT get a 12 man in the huddle penalty when your in game winning FG range. Ever. There is no excuse. At least favre can say he was "trying to make a play".


Seriously, if I am a vikings fan, I would of been calling for the OC's head for that 12 man penalty, or whoever the fuck was in control of it, be it childress, or whatever> just like against philly for us the one year on 4th and 27 - I blame the defensive coordinator for that loss, not favre. Favre should not be required to win you every game, especially after he already did what he needed to do TO win.

[Pugger]

Good points Lurker. I don't think that the loss of Chester Taylor can be overstated - the dropoff between Taylor and AP seems to be pretty large when it comes to blitz pickup. Do the Vikings have a designated 3rd down back at this point or are they counting on AP for that role? Gerhart certainly isn't a 3rd down back. I suppose Albert Young could maybe fill the role

We all saw how horrid Peterson was in that lone series #4 was in at picking up the blitz. Unless AP improves in this area it might be a long season for Grandpa.

[Pugger]

I was actually thinking along the lines of Packerbacker1234's first post - gee, isn't that everyone's strategy for every QB? - when I read Patler's and Lurker's assessments. And they both explain it well.

So I agree with them - this is, in some respects, a new strategy.

As for Packerbacker's claim that Favre has finally learned to play smartly, may I be the first to politely suggest that you go back and take a look at the last pass Favre threw last season?

SUre it was a poor decision, but of any time in his career to make a bad choice, that was one time I just can't blame him per say. THere was a penalty the play before that even put the ball in his hands, he already HAD THEM in position to win with what is a easily makeable FG for Longwell, and the coaches screwed that one up.

The pass was a bad decision, but the man was beaten. All day long. He played very well, especially given the damaging, and illegal, hits he was taking. He should of ran, should of thrown it away, should of never one back across his body - but man, I was surprised he was still standing at that point. They already had the game won and the coaches fuck up was far more inexcusable than favre's. You do NOT get a 12 man in the huddle penalty when your in game winning FG range. Ever. There is no excuse. At least favre can say he was "trying to make a play".


Seriously, if I am a vikings fan, I would of been calling for the OC's head for that 12 man penalty, or whoever the fuck was in control of it, be it childress, or whatever> just like against philly for us the one year on 4th and 27 - I blame the defensive coordinator for that loss, not favre. Favre should not be required to win you every game, especially after he already did what he needed to do TO win.

Geez Louise, 1234. Had Favre not had a major brain fart and just stumbled forward I have a feeling Longwell would have made the game winning FG and made OT not necessary. I know you won't do it, but most observers blame Favre for doing what he has done too many times in his career = thrown dumb interceptions in big games. The 12 men in the huddle was stupidity of the highest order and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if that was on Chilly. But it was only one man's fault for what happened after that. If you look at replays of that infamous throw he could instead have limped forward at least 5 yards instead of turning it over. I saw a YouTube of someone who posted a video of Viking fans watching that game and you hear some of them yell at the screen "What?? He's gonna PASS??"

[Tony Oday]

Favre likes to end the season on an INT...just look at the last three years...

[swede]

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the way to beat any good QB is to go after them? People act like this is some new strategy or something to beat Favre - welcome to the NFL folks. You ALWAYS go after good QB's, no matter the age. Thats how you win.



I remember Dan Marino answering a reporter who asked if he was prepared for the next opponent's stated determination to get to Marino during the game.

He said, "So now they're really REALLY going to try to sack me?" :lol:

[woodbuck27]

Favre has choked more often than any other great QB in NFL history.

The horrible game losing interception against Dallas in the 1995 NFC Title Game when the Packers were driving for the lead in the 4th quarter

The poor throw to Chewy on 4th down in the Super Bowl against Denver

The 6 interceptions against the Rams (I don't put the blame for this much on him)

The dud against the Vikings (epitomized by the I'd rather underhand it three yards past the LOS than get hit)

The dud in his showdown against Michael Vick (first home playoff loss in Packers history)

The game losing interception heave to avoid getting hit against Philadelphia

The game losing interception on a poor throw to an open Donald Driver against the Giants

The game losing interception on a throw across his body in last year's NFC Title Game

" The game losing interception on a throw across his body in last year's NFC Title Game. " HarveyWallbangers

Really Harvey. Was that the play that lost that game? It wasn't a pick taken to the house man,was it? The Saints merely gained possession of the ball on a turnover and the game resumed. Is my memory so bad that, as I thought, that NFC Championship game went on into OT after that pick?

Darn as I saw it if the Vikings had played it out perfectly and not made the bobbles they did prior to the pick that game never gets to OT. They win by 10 points, even considering that Favre pick all else remaining the same.

See that's what really puzzles me about many of 'your type and support' here Harvey. You have to find anything you can to demean Brett Favre. Make him the goat and ignore the whole picture. Favre's now damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

Brett Favre's not a perfect human being. Are you perfect Harvey? I'm only aware of one former human being that was reported as such *.

* PERFECT.

GO PACK GO in 2010-11.

[woodbuck27]

I seriously fucking hate Favre. I have a really hard time trying to figure out how Mobb, Gex, Packerbacker, etc can still defend this guy.

Ahhhhh well it's like this. Some of us really can't hate man. I don't mean to stand in and speak for fine men, but just maybe, it's something like this; or the way I operate or 'at least' sincerely try to operate in my humble life. 8-)

*We've a better tuned psyche that includes such positives as compassion, forgiveness.

* We view the sport of football as more entertainment then a life and death struggle.

* Hate isn't a word that is in our vocabulary or is ever used as it demonstrates sincere weakness and a poor reflection on our spirit and soul.

** We look at liife in terms of ' the Big Picture ' and see our lives on down the road as a reflection of who we are today in the most truthful and meaningful sense.

Taken that ** as a given. How could we possibly hate a man that helped bring the Green Bay Packers out of the proverbial aligator swamp? Hate a man that has, as a QB, won so many victories?Set so many passing records? Well when we discuss this aspect of Favre's career. Set all significant passing records and 'the beat goes on'.

* Hate a man, that is recognized by many NFL experts as the epitome of excitement in the NFL, still. Has been that all his career. In my opinion and that of others the MOST EXCITING PLAYER in NFL history??

* NOPE! To emphasize this fact. We don't hate period. Not alot of Red Neck in us types. Gee just for myself. Hate isn't 'the Canadian way' man. It's not attractive to alot of people that see to the end of their lives as a service to the whole.

* Hate!? How about even dislike a three time MVP as a Green Bay Packer? Uhhhh!?? Not likely. :D

* Hate the man that is recognized as having the most glorious performance in the history of Monday Night Football after his father suddenly passed away??

* Hate a former Green Bay Packer star player that has set every passing record at the QB position.

* HATE !! A man who has led our team to a Super Bowl victory as the Green Bay Packer QB?

Need I go on? Because I could. :D

GO PACK GO in 2010-11. 8-)

[RashanGary]

Woodbuck, it's not about what Favre did while he was here. He was a great QB. Still is. He's also one of the longest lasting NFLers ever.

This isn't an ends-justify-the-means world to a lot of people.


Brett, his family and many of his supporters live in a made up dramatic world where much of their self esteem has been gained by Brett being a football player. The Gretta interview where, "after all Favre had done" look what happened to him. Now he's going to get back. Dianna's ridiculous statements throughout the years propping Brett up on a pedestal. When Brett's on the field, this is, "our Brett", but he's, "my Brett". . . .

I think many people, especially most healthy people don't see Brett as a savior. They see excitement for what's next, not doom and gloom because we lost our savior. They see moving on as just fine and part of the business. They see Brett's view of Ted as being a persecutor as immature.

And from there, we're Packer fans. We see Brett going off to the Vikings as a challenge and we're hoping to whip his ass, same way as when Moss mooned us or Culpepper did the roll it in our stadium. Some of us take our sports personally. Brett's whole act, from somewhere in the late 90's until now, he's wanted special treatment as if he was a savior. He got angry when he left, ignoring the normal football decision of moving on and instead pulling a, "after all I've done for you" tantrum. . . . The, "they're afraid to play me comments", the, "they're to smart to put me on a good team" comments. . . . There is a belief from Brett, his family and his supporters that we can't do it without him. Now Packer fans want to prove that we can. Not only will it feel great to do it without a player and fringe fan base who thought our team stunk except for the savior, it will feel even greater to do it against said savior.

In the end, I think Brett's a guy with a fragile ego. He loved being looked at as the savior. He loved being treated special. All of it made him feel larger than life. It was a big part of what made him tick. When someone treated him like a regular teammate, he lost it. In his mind, in many here's mind, Brett rescued this poor franchise out of desolate victimhood only to be persecuted for it by an ego-driven monster. He is a wonderful savior who's only chance is to fight back. This is all just plain ridiculous. It's not reality. It's all in his head. Ted's here doing the best job he can. He's treating all players like good, soldi teammates, not special, not like saviors. Their whole way of looking at life is bizzare and tainted.

In this season, we can crawl out of the shadow. Once and for all, the Packers can stand as a team, not in a made-up drama where Brett was the savior and we were the helpless victim. Now we will step into reality with pride, on our own two feet.

So yeah, this is a kinda big deal.

[Bossman641]

I seriously fucking hate Favre. I have a really hard time trying to figure out how Mobb, Gex, Packerbacker, etc can still defend this guy.

Ahhhhh well it's like this. Some of us really can't hate man. I don't mean to stand in and speak for fine men, but just maybe, it's something like this; or the way I operate or 'at least' sincerely try to operate in my humble life. 8-)

*We've a better tuned psyche that includes such positives as compassion, forgiveness.

* We view the sport of football as more entertainment then a life and death struggle.

* Hate isn't a word that is in our vocabulary or is ever used as it demonstrates sincere weakness and a poor reflection on our spirit and soul.

** We look at liife in terms of ' the Big Picture ' and see our lives on down the road as a reflection of who we are today in the most truthful and meaningful sense.

Taken that ** as a given. How could we possibly hate a man that helped bring the Green Bay Packers out of the proverbial aligator swamp? Hate a man that has, as a QB, won so many victories?Set so many passing records? Well when we discuss this aspect of Favre's career. Set all significant passing records and 'the beat goes on'.

* Hate a man, that is recognized by many NFL experts as the epitome of excitement in the NFL, still. Has been that all his career. In my opinion and that of others the MOST EXCITING PLAYER in NFL history??

* NOPE! To emphasize this fact. We don't hate period. Not alot of Red Neck in us types. Gee just for myself. Hate isn't 'the Canadian way' man. It's not attractive to alot of people that see to the end of their lives as a service to the whole.

* Hate!? How about even dislike a three time MVP as a Green Bay Packer? Uhhhh!?? Not likely. :D

* Hate the man that is recognized as having the most glorious performance in the history of Monday Night Football after his father suddenly passed away??

* Hate a former Green Bay Packer star player that has set every passing record at the QB position.

* HATE !! A man who has led our team to a Super Bowl victory as the Green Bay Packer QB?

Need I go on? Because I could. :D

GO PACK GO in 2010-11. 8-)

HE'S NOT ON THE PACKERS!!! The NFL is a zero-sum game. That right there is reason enough to want to see him fall on his face.

Over the past few years he has shown himself to be a snake. He is a liar, a manipulator, and has a huge sense of entitlement. Are those good human qualities to have Woodbuck?

[ThunderDan]

HE'S NOT ON THE PACKERS!!! The NFL is a zero-sum game. That right there is reason enough to want to see him fall on his face.

Over the past few years he has shown himself to be a snake. He is a liar, a manipulator, and has a huge sense of entitlement. Are those good human qualities to have Woodbuck?

What??? I can't believe you have to spell that out to some people.

When Favre beats the Packers twice and helps MN win the NFC North that causes the Packers a harder time to win the Super Bowl that isn't hurting the Packers. :oops:

I can't believe anyone can rationalize at this point that Favre doing well and helping the Vikings doesn't hurt the Packers. :satan:

[RashanGary]

What??? I can't believe you have to spell that out to some people.

When Favre beats the Packers twice and helps MN win the NFC North that causes the Packers a harder time to win the Super Bowl that isn't hurting the Packers. :oops:

I can't believe anyone can rationalize at this point that Favre doing well and helping the Vikings doesn't hurt the Packers. :satan:


The beautiful thing about all of this, winning tends to be a goal. I think the best way to meet a goal is to be honest with self, to be honest with others and to set a plan that leads to success and stick to the plan. That's not to say many-a-drama queen hasn't twisted and manipulated their way into success. In getting that success, there is no fulfillment. It only prolongs the things to a moment where the person looks inside themself in an honest way and begins to live a fulfilling life.

The beauty in all of this, of course this being one guys opinion, is that the Packers I think are run by people (starting with Harlan and his legacy continues on) who are in touch with the most honest truth they can find and as such treat others in the most honest, genuine way possible. There is no saviors, persecutors and victims. There is a focus on being the best they can be, a confidence in their ablity and a belief in setting boundaries and expectations.

Whether Favre wins or loses is meaningless to the big picture. Some people wake up and go to bed with a spiritual sense of contentment and happiness. Others wake up and begin the drama game that masks their hurt inside. Brett can't win by beating the Packers. He can't win by winning the SB and vice-versa for the Packers. The only winners are the ones who feel happiness here on earth.

I have a sense who I think are the enlightened individuals and who are the lost, hurt inside folks.

There is a symbolism, to step out of this built up drama game that Brett and others have boughten into, but the true reality, for today anyway, is that the people who get up and go to sleep feeling good about themselves, their decisions and their place on earth are enjoying life. That's a pretty special thing. Nobody touches that.

But go Pack, symbolicly conquer disfunctional, dishonest behavior. If we do win, chances are the big winner will be Brett who eventually finds a way to look inside himself honestly.

[retailguy]

are you drunk again? :)

[Pugger]

HE'S NOT ON THE PACKERS!!! The NFL is a zero-sum game. That right there is reason enough to want to see him fall on his face.

Over the past few years he has shown himself to be a snake. He is a liar, a manipulator, and has a huge sense of entitlement. Are those good human qualities to have Woodbuck?

What??? I can't believe you have to spell that out to some people.

When Favre beats the Packers twice and helps MN win the NFC North that causes the Packers a harder time to win the Super Bowl that isn't hurting the Packers. :oops:

I can't believe anyone can rationalize at this point that Favre doing well and helping the Vikings doesn't hurt the Packers. :satan:

BINGO!

I realize there are fans of Favre around here but a Packer fan shouldn't wish success to the starting QB of the queens - no matter who he is, the bares or the loins. Any success they have will directly effect the Packers and our chances of winning the division and thereafter. Sheesh. :doh:

[retailguy]

I got it. You can't be a "football" fan, you must be a "packer" fan.

what a bunch of RUBBISH.

I really dislike Favre for how he has handled this debacle, but telling folks that they can't enjoy his play on the football field is ASININE.

I enjoy all types of football games and teams. I bleed green/gold but I like plenty of people that when they beat Green Bay "hurt" the team.

What a stupid, stupid point of view.

[get louder at lambeau]

I got it. You can't be a "Viking" fan, you must be a "packer" fan.

Corrected it for ya.

[Pugger]

I got it. You can't be a "football" fan, you must be a "packer" fan.

what a bunch of RUBBISH.

I really dislike Favre for how he has handled this debacle, but telling folks that they can't enjoy his play on the football field is ASININE.

I enjoy all types of football games and teams. I bleed green/gold but I like plenty of people that when they beat Green Bay "hurt" the team.

What a stupid, stupid point of view.

Nobody said anything about not enjoying his play but if you want him to succeed wouldn't his and MN's success affect the fortunes of the Packers?

[mngolf19]

What??? I can't believe you have to spell that out to some people.

When Favre beats the Packers twice and helps MN win the NFC North that causes the Packers a harder time to win the Super Bowl that isn't hurting the Packers. :oops:

I can't believe anyone can rationalize at this point that Favre doing well and helping the Vikings doesn't hurt the Packers. :satan:


The beautiful thing about all of this, winning tends to be a goal. I think the best way to meet a goal is to be honest with self, to be honest with others and to set a plan that leads to success and stick to the plan. That's not to say many-a-drama queen hasn't twisted and manipulated their way into success. In getting that success, there is no fulfillment. It only prolongs the things to a moment where the person looks inside themself in an honest way and begins to live a fulfilling life.

The beauty in all of this, of course this being one guys opinion, is that the Packers I think are run by people (starting with Harlan and his legacy continues on) who are in touch with the most honest truth they can find and as such treat others in the most honest, genuine way possible. There is no saviors, persecutors and victims. There is a focus on being the best they can be, a confidence in their ablity and a belief in setting boundaries and expectations.

Whether Favre wins or loses is meaningless to the big picture. Some people wake up and go to bed with a spiritual sense of contentment and happiness. Others wake up and begin the drama game that masks their hurt inside. Brett can't win by beating the Packers. He can't win by winning the SB and vice-versa for the Packers. The only winners are the ones who feel happiness here on earth.

I have a sense who I think are the enlightened individuals and who are the lost, hurt inside folks.

There is a symbolism, to step out of this built up drama game that Brett and others have boughten into, but the true reality, for today anyway, is that the people who get up and go to sleep feeling good about themselves, their decisions and their place on earth are enjoying life. That's a pretty special thing. Nobody touches that.

But go Pack, symbolicly conquer disfunctional, dishonest behavior. If we do win, chances are the big winner will be Brett who eventually finds a way to look inside himself honestly.

Nice concept but some people never get introspective. So it never will bother them. Many people live in the moment alone, don't care about the future. And won't look back on any decision. And while the Packers org may do some things that others wouldn't concerning treatment of people, they are still a business and that will always be the bottom line.

[retailguy]

I got it. You can't be a "football" fan, you must be a "packer" fan.

what a bunch of RUBBISH.

I really dislike Favre for how he has handled this debacle, but telling folks that they can't enjoy his play on the football field is ASININE.

I enjoy all types of football games and teams. I bleed green/gold but I like plenty of people that when they beat Green Bay "hurt" the team.

What a stupid, stupid point of view.

Nobody said anything about not enjoying his play but if you want him to succeed wouldn't his and MN's success affect the fortunes of the Packers?

WHO CARES? Really. It's a game. I want to see them win as much as you do, but if they don't, who really cares?

Here is the point. You and your ilk have been shouting down all the "favre defenders" for a couple of years now. It's like the guy should be banished to the fucking siberian wilderness for the rest of his life.

Did he behave like a stupid fuck on his way out of town? You bet. Did he deserve some tongue lashing and criticism? Yes, he earned that. But the day he waltzed off to NY and the Packers got a 3rd round pick, he owed GB NOTHING. No loyalty, no money, no support, no cheering, NOTHING.

This was Favre's job. The same way coaches get a job, and switch uniforms at will. Favre is no more loyal to GB than McCarthy or Thompson were to SF or Seattle. When the pay stops, so does the loyalty. Favre grew up in MISSISSIPPI. I doubt he was a "fan" growing up. Why should he have been?

I enjoy watching Favre play. I don't care whether the Vikings win or lose. I don't care if the Packers can't win, WHO WINS. It doesn't matter.

You know what I see the problem as? The division in this forum. Lots of people have left. SOME have left for reasons I don't know, and some have left for reasons that I DO KNOW. Because I asked them.

I miss Rastak. When I went to a Vikings game a few years back, as part of my 32 stadium tour, I reached out to him. He helped me with hotel & restaurant recommendations, and even invited me out for a beer. My schedule didn't permit that, but I'd have certainly taken him up on it if it had. I cannot tell you what a quality guy he is. I miss chatting with him here. He left because of this forums reaction to Brett Favre. He left because people quit talking and jabbing with him over the Vikings and started giving him personal insults if he didn't accept their point of view. The vitriole directed at his team, the team HE grew up with, drove him away. 10k posts. Gone. Because of stupid personal bullshit.

I miss grnbay007. What a quality person. She loves the Packers. I had the privilege of serving as a moderator with her in the early days. She left because of the Brett Favre bashing around here. She still enjoys watching him play, even though she is a packer fan. No room for that here unless you like the personal insults and the criticism. I miss chatting with her. She had quality things to say and points to add. She doesn't say them anymore, because she's tired of being attacked and understandably has gotten a bit gunshy. I can really understand why.

I miss Bretsky. I had the privilege to meet him on a trip to Green Bay. What a quality guy. A packer fan through and through. Isn't anything he wouldn't do for a fellow packer fan. His favorite piece of Packer memorabilia is his vintage Favre all pro jersey which he wore with pride to the Packers/Falcons game in 2008, AFTER Favre left. I enjoyed chatting with him in the romper room and via PM about personal finance and the role it plays in our lives. He doesn't come here anymore because of the personal attacks and insults relating to Favre and those who can't stand him. What a loss for this place. I also had the privilege of serving with him as moderator. Was there ever a better one? Not that I've seen.

I miss woodbuck. He's a nut, but I like him too. His skin is a bit tougher than most, but is there anyone who is more attacked about his Favre views than woody? I've talked with him via PM's and email. Played survival pool and pro pickem with him for several years. I get to NE Canada? I'm calling him and inviting him to dinner. I miss reading a long rambling woody posts about his passion. We don't get many any longer because of all the personal vitriole spewed by the intelligence challenged idiots that are left here. He's still here, albeit it's a rarity.

I've personally met about 25 people that post here. I've asked for advice each time I've visited their area. When my company offered a relocation to Alaska 18 months ago, I reached out to Freak Out, who was very helpful with information. Had the privilege to meet him in GB also. When I visited Baltimore, Ziggy was very helpful with a list of things to do and a great italian place in the inner harbor. I'm grateful they still come around here, although it's not as common as it used to be.

Here's the final point, Pugger. These WERE quality people and they're now gone or almost gone over the Favre bullshit that permeates this forum. When I make a trip to Tampa on my stadium tour, I won't be calling you. I'll be asking the conceirge at my hotel. When I visit the stadiums or towns of the rest of the "bashing crowd", I won't be calling them either. If you left tomorrow, Pugger, I would not miss you. There is no room in your world for an alternate opinion.

This is why I hate Brett Favre. His legacy has ruined this forum with the anger that he instills in a minority few Packer fans who are INCAPABLE of keeping their personal feelings to themselves about a very painful issue and are also INCAPABLE of moving past it. They're weak and loudmouthed. It happens.

The only exception I have is Justin Harrell. I just can't quit the guy. I had the privilege to meet him in GB too, and I'll look him up and share a beer with him next time I'm there. We'll always disagree about Favre, but I know enough about him, that I'm willing to overlook it.

I miss several of my virtual friends. If I didn't mention you, I apologize, but this post is approaching Woodbuck length and I must stop.

[RashanGary]

I'll tell a personal story. I was at work today. I have this policy of never hitting my kids. Call me a wimpy liberal, whatever.

There are a couple people talking about how they spank their kids, then they're saying, "and those parents who think they have perfect childeren are so full of it. ooohhh I neeevvverrr hit my kids. . . . ."

That is very similar to the stuff that happens here, the sarcasm. I work in the civil engineering field. It's a very traditional, conservative area of work, at least in my experience it is. My thinking is loosy goosy and in the minority. There was a time when I would get really upset that I was outnumbered by people doing something that's obviously meant as a jab. Sure, it's protecting themselves by putting me down, but regardless, there is a conscious effort to let me know they think my thinking is ridiculous. This was in person, face to face, so it's a different level than the internet.

Today, when I heard people saying that, I stood up and said, "I've never hit my kids." I said, "I would never hit anyone smaller than me and the people bigger than me, I wouldn't hit them either because I'd get my ass kicked, so I guess I just don't believe in hitting". You know what? I smiled inside because I'm at a point in my life where I really don't care what other people think of me, of my opinions or anything really. I'm in search of the truth, I love to hear differing opinions, but if they don't change my opinion, there is no amount of insults attached to it that are going to get under my skin. Well, for now that is. I'm sure a day will come where stress arises and I don't handle things well that I sink back into letting others opinions effect me, but in the healthy state I am now, it can't faze me.

So if there are Favre fans who left because they are so upset that they couldn't handle it. My advice would be to let it roll off. That's life. We can't control other peoples opinions about us or anything else. Do your individual best, always strive to learn and be better, but when you disagree, just let it roll off whether there is an insult attached or not. And the people who have to insult, they'll slowly lose respect. I've lost some here for doing exactly that. Over time, we'll see. I have a feeling that 5 years from now some of the same people I knew on here 5 years ago are going to have completely different opinions of me. I think I'll be more respected and I sort of look forward to that, but I didn't get where I am already and where I'm going by controlling anything other than myself. The more I realize that, the happier I get.

I've never been a master of the drama game though. Some people have become masters of it. Storming off, throwing fits, etc. . . It's all part of the game. So many people play it, it's almost reality. I've found a way out, but that's only because I stink at it. I always knew something was wrong with how we (people) communicate a lot of the time. I could never put my finger on it, but someone showed me to a different way of thinking. It's been sort of relieving the last few weeks for me. We'll see in a couple years though. Like Justin Harrell's back is chronic, we'll see if my hurt spirit is chronic. I'm just getting started. I feel like I'm through preseason game 3 and feel great!

[mraynrand]

Retail, that was a huge hunk 'o crap, even if there was some truth to it.

[Patler]

Redacted, but I refer to the whole long post.



It has not been nearly as one sided as you imply. What changed was the pro-Favre crowd has grown smaller over time through attrition and conversion. Now, primarily they use the persecution argument, as you have.

Many (not all) of the staunchest advocates on both sides have been utterly unreasonable in accepting the view point of the others, or even in making logical arguments a good part of the time. But it is that way everywhere. Nothing unique about what has happened here.

I, for one, would thoroughly enjoy a rational discussion about the Favre saga. We have managed to do it briefly at times, but it always degrades into the same old comments from BOTH sides. Oh well, maybe in 20 years or so (assuming he actually DOES retire within the next 5 years. :lol: )

[mraynrand]

Good post Patler.

I just checked out some other forums. This place is tame compared to the anti-Favre vitriol on some of the other forums. I just don't get it - I liked watching Favre play for the Jets, and I appreciate his talents, but I can't stand watching him play for the Vikings. So what? I'm going to continue to evaluate him fairly, hate the Vikings, and hope Favre gets his ass handed to him until he quits!!!! This is football, not the glee club!

Retail, I miss Bretsky too - maybe we can have some more discussion of his girl-on-girl fantasies along with his hurt feelings about Favre criticism.:roll:

The guy I respect with regard to Favre love is Nutz - guy tells you what he thinks and is undaunted. Go Nutz!

[retailguy]

Just a short rebuttal and then I'm done. The focus seems to be on either "hurt feelings" or "can't handle the criticism". I'm sure that's a small part of it. But the bigger part, that seems to be missed is the attitude of "Why bother?" or "why hang out there?". It's just more of the same old BS. Let's go somewhere else where I can discuss things, and not be criticized.

There used to be a place for both POV, but on this issue there isn't.

I brought up 3 folks that I know their reasons for leaving, or at least believe that I do. What about all the occasional folks that used to show up here that are also gone? Why did they leave? Anyone want to hazard a guess?

That's what I'm saying. Those that "stuck around" largely have an "anti Favre" mentality. Do you really enjoy just talking with yourselves? Because that's all that are left right now. At least when the others were here, you had an opportunity for "discussion". Not much of that here anymore.... because you drove them off, I believe. You believe what you want.

Patler, your points are duly noted. My perspective comes from watching the battle. I'm one of the few that are so sick and tired of Favre, yet enjoy watching him play. It's an odd position to be in. I spent a whole lot more time talking about non football related stuff in the early days.

I'd pay attention to football when something happened or it was in season. Now, there isn't much else to talk about. Because folks are GONE. No new members join, because the discussion sucks donkey balls. (to quote skinbasket). Why would you want to sign up?

It used to be inviting to come here, it isn't any longer. New folks that do come here aren't welcomed, they are "fresh meat" to argue with. Then they leave... No shit? Really? Why would they leave? The real question is why would they stay? I can't answer that. I really can't.

[retailguy]

Indulge me for one more thing.... Justin, enjoyed your story, I have a question. My daughters are 12 & 13. In the very early days, I spanked each of them once. I found that it was never necessary to do it again.

One got it in the car at a restaurant, and the other got it in her bedroom after an extremely difficult evening. Both were "bare hand" on the bottom and neither was done in anger.

From that point forward, one look was all it took and the behavior stopped.

So, am I as "irrational" as your co-workers? Or, might there be a middle ground you could be seeking?

[RashanGary]

I've never hit mine. I don't think it helps, but to each their own.

[Patler]

Patler, your points are duly noted. My perspective comes from watching the battle. I'm one of the few that are so sick and tired of Favre, yet enjoy watching him play. It's an odd position to be in. I spent a whole lot more time talking about non football related stuff in the early days.

I'd pay attention to football when something happened or it was in season. Now, there isn't much else to talk about. Because folks are GONE. No new members join, because the discussion sucks donkey balls. (to quote skinbasket). Why would you want to sign up?

It used to be inviting to come here, it isn't any longer. New folks that do come here aren't welcomed, they are "fresh meat" to argue with. Then they leave... No shit? Really? Why would they leave? The real question is why would they stay? I can't answer that. I really can't.

I have mostly avoided Favre discussions my self. I comment only until it goes back to what it always does, then I drop out of the discussion.

But why do you insist on finding some group to "blame"? That's just the way it is. Discussion boards go through countless personality changes. Many people who posted voraciously in the past do not now because they moved, got new jobs, lost their jobs, had more kids and older kids or had numerous other reasons for change their posting habits. I suspect that has changed the personality of the boards as much as the Favre arguments.

The team itself has changed dramatically, and that changes the nature of discussions.

Wanting a discussion board to stay as it was two or three years ago is just unreasonable. Needing to blame someone or some group for it changing is equally unreasonable, in my opinion.

[retailguy]

I've never hit mine. I don't think it helps, but to each their own.

My perspective is that there is a difference between "hit" and "spank". If you don't differentiate, then you made the right decision.

I have never "hit" my children either.

[falco]

FWIW RG, you are as much a part of the problem as those you lambast. Your attitude and treatment of others does this forum no favors. Just my opinion ...

[mraynrand]

Retail, Come on! This place has been very welcoming to the three new people that found it in the last year.

[Patler]

I've never hit mine. I don't think it helps, but to each their own.

I agree. Thumb screws are much more effective.

[Bossman641]

I got it. You can't be a "football" fan, you must be a "packer" fan.

what a bunch of RUBBISH.

I really dislike Favre for how he has handled this debacle, but telling folks that they can't enjoy his play on the football field is ASININE.

I enjoy all types of football games and teams. I bleed green/gold but I like plenty of people that when they beat Green Bay "hurt" the team.

What a stupid, stupid point of view.

Nobody said anything about not enjoying his play but if you want him to succeed wouldn't his and MN's success affect the fortunes of the Packers?

WHO CARES? Really. It's a game. I want to see them win as much as you do, but if they don't, who really cares?

Here is the point. You and your ilk have been shouting down all the "favre defenders" for a couple of years now. It's like the guy should be banished to the fucking siberian wilderness for the rest of his life.

Did he behave like a stupid fuck on his way out of town? You bet. Did he deserve some tongue lashing and criticism? Yes, he earned that. But the day he waltzed off to NY and the Packers got a 3rd round pick, he owed GB NOTHING. No loyalty, no money, no support, no cheering, NOTHING.

This was Favre's job. The same way coaches get a job, and switch uniforms at will. Favre is no more loyal to GB than McCarthy or Thompson were to SF or Seattle. When the pay stops, so does the loyalty. Favre grew up in MISSISSIPPI. I doubt he was a "fan" growing up. Why should he have been?

I enjoy watching Favre play. I don't care whether the Vikings win or lose. I don't care if the Packers can't win, WHO WINS. It doesn't matter.

You know what I see the problem as? The division in this forum. Lots of people have left. SOME have left for reasons I don't know, and some have left for reasons that I DO KNOW. Because I asked them.

I miss Rastak. When I went to a Vikings game a few years back, as part of my 32 stadium tour, I reached out to him. He helped me with hotel & restaurant recommendations, and even invited me out for a beer. My schedule didn't permit that, but I'd have certainly taken him up on it if it had. I cannot tell you what a quality guy he is. I miss chatting with him here. He left because of this forums reaction to Brett Favre. He left because people quit talking and jabbing with him over the Vikings and started giving him personal insults if he didn't accept their point of view. The vitriole directed at his team, the team HE grew up with, drove him away. 10k posts. Gone. Because of stupid personal bullshit.

I miss grnbay007. What a quality person. She loves the Packers. I had the privilege of serving as a moderator with her in the early days. She left because of the Brett Favre bashing around here. She still enjoys watching him play, even though she is a packer fan. No room for that here unless you like the personal insults and the criticism. I miss chatting with her. She had quality things to say and points to add. She doesn't say them anymore, because she's tired of being attacked and understandably has gotten a bit gunshy. I can really understand why.

I miss Bretsky. I had the privilege to meet him on a trip to Green Bay. What a quality guy. A packer fan through and through. Isn't anything he wouldn't do for a fellow packer fan. His favorite piece of Packer memorabilia is his vintage Favre all pro jersey which he wore with pride to the Packers/Falcons game in 2008, AFTER Favre left. I enjoyed chatting with him in the romper room and via PM about personal finance and the role it plays in our lives. He doesn't come here anymore because of the personal attacks and insults relating to Favre and those who can't stand him. What a loss for this place. I also had the privilege of serving with him as moderator. Was there ever a better one? Not that I've seen.

I miss woodbuck. He's a nut, but I like him too. His skin is a bit tougher than most, but is there anyone who is more attacked about his Favre views than woody? I've talked with him via PM's and email. Played survival pool and pro pickem with him for several years. I get to NE Canada? I'm calling him and inviting him to dinner. I miss reading a long rambling woody posts about his passion. We don't get many any longer because of all the personal vitriole spewed by the intelligence challenged idiots that are left here. He's still here, albeit it's a rarity.

I've personally met about 25 people that post here. I've asked for advice each time I've visited their area. When my company offered a relocation to Alaska 18 months ago, I reached out to Freak Out, who was very helpful with information. Had the privilege to meet him in GB also. When I visited Baltimore, Ziggy was very helpful with a list of things to do and a great italian place in the inner harbor. I'm grateful they still come around here, although it's not as common as it used to be.

Here's the final point, Pugger. These WERE quality people and they're now gone or almost gone over the Favre bullshit that permeates this forum. When I make a trip to Tampa on my stadium tour, I won't be calling you. I'll be asking the conceirge at my hotel. When I visit the stadiums or towns of the rest of the "bashing crowd", I won't be calling them either. If you left tomorrow, Pugger, I would not miss you. There is no room in your world for an alternate opinion.

This is why I hate Brett Favre. His legacy has ruined this forum with the anger that he instills in a minority few Packer fans who are INCAPABLE of keeping their personal feelings to themselves about a very painful issue and are also INCAPABLE of moving past it. They're weak and loudmouthed. It happens.

The only exception I have is Justin Harrell. I just can't quit the guy. I had the privilege to meet him in GB too, and I'll look him up and share a beer with him next time I'm there. We'll always disagree about Favre, but I know enough about him, that I'm willing to overlook it.

I miss several of my virtual friends. If I didn't mention you, I apologize, but this post is approaching Woodbuck length and I must stop.

I'm sorry RG but it goes both ways. Early on, the pro-Favre crowd was very loud and very in your face in their support of Favre. Does it suck that those people left? Of course. But for the life of me I can't figure out why these people would think this would be a safe haven to talk about Favre. I've never checked, but I'm sure there are plenty of message boards dedicated to supporting Favre. It is ridiculous to expect Favre not to be a heated topic. It is even more ridiculous to think that flaunting it and fanning the flames would be a smart thing to do.

I really don't understand your bolded point. As far as I know, you and Pugger have never had any trouble. You say she wouldn't be missed because she is against Favre?

You talk about having thick skin and allowing alternate viewpoints but apparently only when it comes to allowing Favre talk.

[RashanGary]

I don't want to get in a high and mighty discussion about spanking. I don't do it myself. I don't think it's the best way to work with a kid. People at my work were talking about how high and mighty and ridiculous people who don't spank their kids are. I disagreed and let their sarcasm roll off. People can do it their won way. They can disagree with me, I can disagree with them, but we go our own way and do our own version of the best. Whatever. Their insult was just something I was able to ignore. That was more my point, who cares what they think, who cares if they don't like my style, who cares if they don't believe in it. Goodbye, have a good day and in the end it will work out how it works out.

[Joemailman]

I suppose I'm somewhere in the middle on the whole issue of wanting Favre to do well. I wouldn't want Favre to go out and have a 2005 type year. I'd feel bad for him if that happened. However, during a given week, I'm not going to be cheering for Favre to have a great game because that would increase the Vikings chances of winning. As long as the Vikings are the Packers chief divisional rival, I won't cheer for the Vikings quarterback to have a great game no matter who it is. Now if the Vikings winning a late season game against an NFC team would help the Packers gain playoff position, that's another story.

Of course, I also have Favre on one Fantasy Football team, so I have to hope he has a few good games. :oops:

[falco]

I suppose I'm somewhere in the middle on the whole issue of wanting Favre to do well. I wouldn't want Favre to go out and have a 2005 type year. I'd feel bad for him if that happened. However, during a given week, I'm not going to be cheering for Favre to have a great game because that would increase the Vikings chances of winning. As long as the Vikings are the Packers chief divisional rival, I won't cheer for the Vikings quarterback to have a great game no matter who it is. Now if the Vikings winning a late season game against an NFC team would help the Packers gain playoff position, that's another story.

Of course, I also have Favre on one Fantasy Football team, so I have to hope he has a few good games. :oops:

Favre being on the vikes makes for good football; I wouldn't want it any other way.

[retailguy]

Patler, your points are duly noted. My perspective comes from watching the battle. I'm one of the few that are so sick and tired of Favre, yet enjoy watching him play. It's an odd position to be in. I spent a whole lot more time talking about non football related stuff in the early days.

I'd pay attention to football when something happened or it was in season. Now, there isn't much else to talk about. Because folks are GONE. No new members join, because the discussion sucks donkey balls. (to quote skinbasket). Why would you want to sign up?

It used to be inviting to come here, it isn't any longer. New folks that do come here aren't welcomed, they are "fresh meat" to argue with. Then they leave... No shit? Really? Why would they leave? The real question is why would they stay? I can't answer that. I really can't.

I have mostly avoided Favre discussions my self. I comment only until it goes back to what it always does, then I drop out of the discussion.

But why do you insist on finding some group to "blame"? That's just the way it is. Discussion boards go through countless personality changes. Many people who posted voraciously in the past do not now because they moved, got new jobs, lost their jobs, had more kids and older kids or had numerous other reasons for change their posting habits. I suspect that has changed the personality of the boards as much as the Favre arguments.

The team itself has changed dramatically, and that changes the nature of discussions.

Wanting a discussion board to stay as it was two or three years ago is just unreasonable. Needing to blame someone or some group for it changing is equally unreasonable, in my opinion.

Wow. You don't usually trot out generalizations, but if that's the way you think I guess it is.

I've been a member of a couple of acoustic guitar forums for the better part of 10 years. I've been through two or three moves with the Martin Guitar forum and many software changes and updates. I drive a Mercedes and have been a member there for well over 5 years. The membership there is largely static, and has been for a long long time. This place isn't "static" right now.

Yes, some people come and go. That's to be expected, however, the core doesn't. When you have a mass exodus, which this place has had, there are reasons for it. You don't agree with mine, that's fine. I'm sure some of them did move on for the reasons you discuss, but ALL of them? I find that difficult to believe.

But as Falco put it, it's my opinion, and in this case, I'm sticking with it.

[retailguy]

I don't want to get in a high and mighty discussion about spanking. I don't do it myself. I don't think it's the best way to work with a kid. People at my work were talking about how high and mighty and ridiculous people who don't spank their kids are. I disagreed and let their sarcasm roll off. People can do it their won way. They can disagree with me, I can disagree with them, but we go our own way and do our own version of the best. Whatever. Their insult was just something I was able to ignore. That was more my point, who cares what they think, who cares if they don't like my style, who cares if they don't believe in it. Goodbye, have a good day and in the end it will work out how it works out.

Justin, certainly wasn't trying to get into a "high and mighty" about spanking. My point was that sometimes there are multiple ways to do things and neither are wrong. Neither are right either for that matter. Circumstances make that determination.

You tend to live in a black and white world. I believe that in my 20's I did too. My world becomes increasingly gray as time moves on, and that's more than just my hair.

I wouldn't change one thing in raising these girls, including spanking, and I certainly don't begrudge you for choosing a different path. However, I was just driving at "right" and "wrong", and I think this example is a perfect illustration that finding either is a process and not a defined path.

[packerbacker1234]

IF AR keeps performing and not getting hurt for another season or two, people are going to start treating him exactly how we treated #4 for a long time.

What favre became personality wise is what we, the fans and media, turned him into, Yes, many fans wer enever completely sold on brett - they felt he was a good QB, but he just never learned from his mistakes.

AR seems like a stand up guy right now, he most likely is. Favre was a stand up guy for awhile too, facing real life issues with addiction and alcohol, and we all appreciated him more. We appreciate AR more because of how he has performed and what he has said in regards to following a legend.

The thing is, he is a QB. A really good QB, one of the best in the league right now. He is going to get special treatment, just like Brett, eventually. Peyton gets it, I am sure brees gets it. Does that mean his personality will be the same? Hardly, everyone is different.

I guess the point is that to expect a Brett Favre conversation to not happen at one of the biggest, most popular, Packer forums on the net when he was our guy for 16 years is just not being realistic. Are we to retreat to viking forums, jet forums (I did this for a bit, they had some really stand up fans), when we want to discuss #4? We talka obut other players all the time on the boards - we hav ea thread now on sidney rice and his hip, we've had threads on urlacher when he gets hurt, I think we had a thread on AP a couple years ago - we love talking about the other players in our division - Brett is one of them, and he us to be one of us.

Of course we are going to talk about him, I just don't get why it can't just be that "talking" - without personally insulting eachother just because we have a difference in opinion.

[Patler]

I've been a member of a couple of acoustic guitar forums for the better part of 10 years. I've been through two or three moves with the Martin Guitar forum and many software changes and updates. I drive a Mercedes and have been a member there for well over 5 years. The membership there is largely static, and has been for a long long time. This place isn't "static" right now.

Yes, some people come and go. That's to be expected, however, the core doesn't. When you have a mass exodus, which this place has had, there are reasons for it. You don't agree with mine, that's fine. I'm sure some of them did move on for the reasons you discuss, but ALL of them? I find that difficult to believe.

But as Falco put it, it's my opinion, and in this case, I'm sticking with it.

Geeze, you're comparing a sports board with guitar players and Mercedes drivers? I've been on numerous hockey boards, and the changes have been far more dramatic than what has happened here.

Do you really want a sports discussion board to be static? As fast as teams and coaches change, that isn't likely to happen.

As to the bold comment above, who said "all"? There you go with a "hot/cold" analysis, when "warm" is the answer. I recognized by my comment that some have left for the reasons you mentioned. So what? Many others have left for other reasons, too. That was my point. Even without the Favre matter, the board would have changed.

Quite frankly (apologies to Joe) this place was a lot more interesting when it had a home page, with articles, etc. But I never really expected that to last. Too much commitment required by too many different people. It was nice while it lasted.

[Bossman641]

IF AR keeps performing and not getting hurt for another season or two, people are going to start treating him exactly how we treated #4 for a long time.

What favre became personality wise is what we, the fans and media, turned him into, Yes, many fans wer enever completely sold on brett - they felt he was a good QB, but he just never learned from his mistakes.

AR seems like a stand up guy right now, he most likely is. Favre was a stand up guy for awhile too, facing real life issues with addiction and alcohol, and we all appreciated him more. We appreciate AR more because of how he has performed and what he has said in regards to following a legend.

The thing is, he is a QB. A really good QB, one of the best in the league right now. He is going to get special treatment, just like Brett, eventually. Peyton gets it, I am sure brees gets it. Does that mean his personality will be the same? Hardly, everyone is different.

I think you are projecting your feelings about Favre to the rest of the board, and Packer fans in general. I loved Favre, but would never defend him to the death the way others did. There has always been a difference between the staunchest Favre fans who defended his every interception and everyone else.

Personally, I hope AR never becomes like Favre, either in personality or playing style. The very thing that I respect the most about Rodgers, his work ethic, is the thing that turned me off on Favre. And in regards to their playing style, while Favre had more "wow" plays it is refreshing to have a QB who doesn't make you hold your breath everytime he unleashes a bomb.

[Patler]

IF AR keeps performing and not getting hurt for another season or two, people are going to start treating him exactly how we treated #4 for a long time.

What favre became personality wise is what we, the fans and media, turned him into, Yes, many fans wer enever completely sold on brett - they felt he was a good QB, but he just never learned from his mistakes.

AR seems like a stand up guy right now, he most likely is. Favre was a stand up guy for awhile too, facing real life issues with addiction and alcohol, and we all appreciated him more. We appreciate AR more because of how he has performed and what he has said in regards to following a legend.

The thing is, he is a QB. A really good QB, one of the best in the league right now. He is going to get special treatment, just like Brett, eventually. Peyton gets it, I am sure brees gets it. Does that mean his personality will be the same? Hardly, everyone is different.

I guess the point is that to expect a Brett Favre conversation to not happen at one of the biggest, most popular, Packer forums on the net when he was our guy for 16 years is just not being realistic. Are we to retreat to viking forums, jet forums (I did this for a bit, they had some really stand up fans), when we want to discuss #4? We talka obut other players all the time on the boards - we hav ea thread now on sidney rice and his hip, we've had threads on urlacher when he gets hurt, I think we had a thread on AP a couple years ago - we love talking about the other players in our division - Brett is one of them, and he us to be one of us.

Of course we are going to talk about him, I just don't get why it can't just be that "talking" - without personally insulting eachother just because we have a difference in opinion.

That is certainly true, players are affected by how we treat them, some a lot more than others. But I think they are affected more by how their coaches and team management treat them. Holmgren treated the young Favre with an iron hand. Sherman treated the middle-age Favre (football-wise), with kid gloves. I have always thought that MM inherited an aging Favre with an attitude created by the change from Holmgren to Sherman, and there wasn't much he could do about it. To try to change Favre at that point was a lost cause destined to create hard feelings on both sides.

The Favre thing exposed a lot of different opinions that people didn't know they had, and that some still refuse to admit. We had "staunch Packer fans" who openly admitted to wanting Favre to beat the Packers. Others were offended by a "Packer fan" who said that. Others who wanted the Packers to win but still cheered for Favre in other games were offended by those who now detest Favre in all things. The same thing happens when a winning team becomes a loser. True loyalties are exposed, be it team, player, coach, GM etc. and others take offense to whatever attitudes there are.

[MichiganPackerFan]

I've skipped the last 30 or so pages of this thread I think, but I was wondering something:

Favre is going into the Hall of Fame. Favre deserves to be in the Packers Hall of Fame. I'm not convinced that you can asshole your way out of either one with lofty accomplishments. The question is: do the Packers put him in immediately after the (I assume it to be a) 5 year waiting period after he retires (and unretires and retires and unretires and retires and unretires and retires) or do they wait longer until emotions have cooled?

[mngolf19]

I suppose I'm somewhere in the middle on the whole issue of wanting Favre to do well. I wouldn't want Favre to go out and have a 2005 type year. I'd feel bad for him if that happened. However, during a given week, I'm not going to be cheering for Favre to have a great game because that would increase the Vikings chances of winning. As long as the Vikings are the Packers chief divisional rival, I won't cheer for the Vikings quarterback to have a great game no matter who it is. Now if the Vikings winning a late season game against an NFC team would help the Packers gain playoff position, that's another story.

Of course, I also have Favre on one Fantasy Football team, so I have to hope he has a few good games. :oops:

Favre being on the vikes makes for good football; I wouldn't want it any other way.

Which is exactly how I felt when he was a Packer.

[Fritz]

I've skipped the last 30 or so pages of this thread I think, but I was wondering something:

Favre is going into the Hall of Fame. Favre deserves to be in the Packers Hall of Fame. I'm not convinced that you can asshole your way out of either one with lofty accomplishments. The question is: do the Packers put him in immediately after the (I assume it to be a) 5 year waiting period after he retires (and unretires and retires and unretires and retires and unretires and retires) or do they wait longer until emotions have cooled?

This is a great, great line. The use of "asshole" as a verb - genius.

My thinking is that Favre's number will be retired in Green Bay once Favre has actually retired and been retired, and after he either mellows toward Thompson or until Thompson is gone.

[Tony Oday]

I've skipped the last 30 or so pages of this thread I think, but I was wondering something:

Favre is going into the Hall of Fame. Favre deserves to be in the Packers Hall of Fame. I'm not convinced that you can asshole your way out of either one with lofty accomplishments. The question is: do the Packers put him in immediately after the (I assume it to be a) 5 year waiting period after he retires (and unretires and retires and unretires and retires and unretires and retires) or do they wait longer until emotions have cooled?

This is a great, great line. The use of "asshole" as a verb - genius.

My thinking is that Favre's number will be retired in Green Bay once Favre has actually retired and been retired, and after he either mellows toward Thompson or until Thompson is gone.

So since he "retired" 3 years ago after this season does that mean in two years he could be in the Hall?

[Pugger]

I got it. You can't be a "football" fan, you must be a "packer" fan.

what a bunch of RUBBISH.

I really dislike Favre for how he has handled this debacle, but telling folks that they can't enjoy his play on the football field is ASININE.

I enjoy all types of football games and teams. I bleed green/gold but I like plenty of people that when they beat Green Bay "hurt" the team.

What a stupid, stupid point of view.

Nobody said anything about not enjoying his play but if you want him to succeed wouldn't his and MN's success affect the fortunes of the Packers?

WHO CARES? Really. It's a game. I want to see them win as much as you do, but if they don't, who really cares?

Here is the point. You and your ilk have been shouting down all the "favre defenders" for a couple of years now. It's like the guy should be banished to the fucking siberian wilderness for the rest of his life.

Did he behave like a stupid fuck on his way out of town? You bet. Did he deserve some tongue lashing and criticism? Yes, he earned that. But the day he waltzed off to NY and the Packers got a 3rd round pick, he owed GB NOTHING. No loyalty, no money, no support, no cheering, NOTHING.

This was Favre's job. The same way coaches get a job, and switch uniforms at will. Favre is no more loyal to GB than McCarthy or Thompson were to SF or Seattle. When the pay stops, so does the loyalty. Favre grew up in MISSISSIPPI. I doubt he was a "fan" growing up. Why should he have been?

I enjoy watching Favre play. I don't care whether the Vikings win or lose. I don't care if the Packers can't win, WHO WINS. It doesn't matter.

You know what I see the problem as? The division in this forum. Lots of people have left. SOME have left for reasons I don't know, and some have left for reasons that I DO KNOW. Because I asked them.

I miss Rastak. When I went to a Vikings game a few years back, as part of my 32 stadium tour, I reached out to him. He helped me with hotel & restaurant recommendations, and even invited me out for a beer. My schedule didn't permit that, but I'd have certainly taken him up on it if it had. I cannot tell you what a quality guy he is. I miss chatting with him here. He left because of this forums reaction to Brett Favre. He left because people quit talking and jabbing with him over the Vikings and started giving him personal insults if he didn't accept their point of view. The vitriole directed at his team, the team HE grew up with, drove him away. 10k posts. Gone. Because of stupid personal bullshit.

I miss grnbay007. What a quality person. She loves the Packers. I had the privilege of serving as a moderator with her in the early days. She left because of the Brett Favre bashing around here. She still enjoys watching him play, even though she is a packer fan. No room for that here unless you like the personal insults and the criticism. I miss chatting with her. She had quality things to say and points to add. She doesn't say them anymore, because she's tired of being attacked and understandably has gotten a bit gunshy. I can really understand why.

I miss Bretsky. I had the privilege to meet him on a trip to Green Bay. What a quality guy. A packer fan through and through. Isn't anything he wouldn't do for a fellow packer fan. His favorite piece of Packer memorabilia is his vintage Favre all pro jersey which he wore with pride to the Packers/Falcons game in 2008, AFTER Favre left. I enjoyed chatting with him in the romper room and via PM about personal finance and the role it plays in our lives. He doesn't come here anymore because of the personal attacks and insults relating to Favre and those who can't stand him. What a loss for this place. I also had the privilege of serving with him as moderator. Was there ever a better one? Not that I've seen.

I miss woodbuck. He's a nut, but I like him too. His skin is a bit tougher than most, but is there anyone who is more attacked about his Favre views than woody? I've talked with him via PM's and email. Played survival pool and pro pickem with him for several years. I get to NE Canada? I'm calling him and inviting him to dinner. I miss reading a long rambling woody posts about his passion. We don't get many any longer because of all the personal vitriole spewed by the intelligence challenged idiots that are left here. He's still here, albeit it's a rarity.

I've personally met about 25 people that post here. I've asked for advice each time I've visited their area. When my company offered a relocation to Alaska 18 months ago, I reached out to Freak Out, who was very helpful with information. Had the privilege to meet him in GB also. When I visited Baltimore, Ziggy was very helpful with a list of things to do and a great italian place in the inner harbor. I'm grateful they still come around here, although it's not as common as it used to be.

Here's the final point, Pugger. These WERE quality people and they're now gone or almost gone over the Favre bullshit that permeates this forum. When I make a trip to Tampa on my stadium tour, I won't be calling you. I'll be asking the conceirge at my hotel. When I visit the stadiums or towns of the rest of the "bashing crowd", I won't be calling them either. If you left tomorrow, Pugger, I would not miss you. There is no room in your world for an alternate opinion.

This is why I hate Brett Favre. His legacy has ruined this forum with the anger that he instills in a minority few Packer fans who are INCAPABLE of keeping their personal feelings to themselves about a very painful issue and are also INCAPABLE of moving past it. They're weak and loudmouthed. It happens.

The only exception I have is Justin Harrell. I just can't quit the guy. I had the privilege to meet him in GB too, and I'll look him up and share a beer with him next time I'm there. We'll always disagree about Favre, but I know enough about him, that I'm willing to overlook it.

I miss several of my virtual friends. If I didn't mention you, I apologize, but this post is approaching Woodbuck length and I must stop.

If you look for me Tampa you'll be looking forever. Sorry if my wanting the QB of a divisional rival makes me out to be some sort of heartless meany or big Favre hater but I want the Packers to win and I do NOT want any of the other teams in the NFC North to win. I used to feel a lot of animosity towards Favre but now I don't care one way or another. I think he is only looking out for #1 and always has. I thought he was different than other elite athletes but he sure fooled me. But as long as he is wearing purple I want the Packers to pound him and the rest of the queens. Now that he no longer is a Packer he is just another player on a rival. I appreciate all he did when he was here but this isn't 2007.

[get louder at lambeau]

Is poor little retail getting picked on for no reason again? There there retail.

[mraynrand]

I want the Packers to win and I do NOT want any of the other teams in the NFC North to win. I used to feel a lot of animosity towards Favre but now I don't care one way or another. I think he is only looking out for #1 and always has. I thought he was different than other elite athletes but he sure fooled me. But as long as he is wearing purple I want the Packers to pound him and the rest of the queens. Now that he no longer is a Packer he is just another player on a rival. I appreciate all he did when he was here but this isn't 2007.

This is pretty much how I feel. Favre is a real talent and I enjoyed watching him, even with the Jets, but the Vikings are a bridge too far. I can't enjoy watching him play for them (and play well, dammit) because I want the Viking to lose, and lose badly, every time they play. That's what being a lifer Packer fan does to you. I don't grudge the BFFFs their enjoyment in watching Favre play, but that's not where I'm at, so don't expect the same from me. I'll enjoy it when he gets inducted into the HOF (assuming he doesn't make cheap shots at the Pack).

[MichiganPackerFan]

That's a solid list of MIA posters. Miss them all for sure. Not that I agree with them all the time, but I think they all go way back to JSO.

[retailguy]

That's a solid list of MIA posters. Miss them all for sure. Not that I agree with them all the time, but I think they all go way back to JSO.

And this is the real issue. Well said MPF. I only named 4. If I thought about it, I could probably name 10 more.

Face it, there's probably 200 people gone in the last year. Some part time posters and a significant group of daily posters.

Personally, I think the discussion was better when they were here. But you all read it for yourself, the personal attacks are still in full force. Would you come back? Why, or why not?

[mraynrand]

That's a solid list of MIA posters. Miss them all for sure. Not that I agree with them all the time, but I think they all go way back to JSO.

And this is the real issue. Well said MPF. I only named 4. If I thought about it, I could probably name 10 more.

Face it, there's probably 200 people gone in the last year. Some part time posters and a significant group of daily posters.

Personally, I think the discussion was better when they were here. But you all read it for yourself, the personal attacks are still in full force. Would you come back? Why, or why not?

I seriously doubt that 200 people went away because of personal attacks.

This website is hard to find, and apparently hard to log into. As it gets smaller, it becomes more insular. Pretty soon we will be hanging witches.

[MJZiggy]

I don't want to get in a high and mighty discussion about spanking. I don't do it myself. I don't think it's the best way to work with a kid. People at my work were talking about how high and mighty and ridiculous people who don't spank their kids are. I disagreed and let their sarcasm roll off. People can do it their won way. They can disagree with me, I can disagree with them, but we go our own way and do our own version of the best. Whatever. Their insult was just something I was able to ignore. That was more my point, who cares what they think, who cares if they don't like my style, who cares if they don't believe in it. Goodbye, have a good day and in the end it will work out how it works out.

Spent a good part of my childhood deathly afraid of my father because he was the one who gave out the spankings. Didn't matter whether you'd done anything that day, you never knew when you might do something that was deemed spank worthy. So I figured that's how you controlled your kids. One day, my kid throws a stubborn tantrum and his father gave him a whack on the behind. The kid gave his father this look that said, go ahead, do it again and I decided there had to be a more imaginative way. I got said kid's favorite toy and put it on a shelf in plain view. Told him when he listened to mom and dad when we asked him to do something, he might get it back. We haven't spanked the child since. All I've had to do is ask if I need to start thinking of new ways to make him cooperate and voila. He knows his boundaries, there's consequences for crossing the line, and he doesn't fear his father. And my brothers still make fun of me for not spanking him, right along with criticizing their father for his unpredictable temper. Makes no sense to me.

[hoosier]

That's a solid list of MIA posters. Miss them all for sure. Not that I agree with them all the time, but I think they all go way back to JSO.

And this is the real issue. Well said MPF. I only named 4. If I thought about it, I could probably name 10 more.

Face it, there's probably 200 people gone in the last year. Some part time posters and a significant group of daily posters.

Personally, I think the discussion was better when they were here. But you all read it for yourself, the personal attacks are still in full force. Would you come back? Why, or why not?

I seriously doubt that 200 people went away because of personal attacks.

This website is hard to find, and apparently hard to log into. As it gets smaller, it becomes more insular. Pretty soon we will be hanging witches.

A witch! A witch! We have found a witch. Might we burn her?

[denverYooper]

That's a solid list of MIA posters. Miss them all for sure. Not that I agree with them all the time, but I think they all go way back to JSO.

And this is the real issue. Well said MPF. I only named 4. If I thought about it, I could probably name 10 more.

Face it, there's probably 200 people gone in the last year. Some part time posters and a significant group of daily posters.

Personally, I think the discussion was better when they were here. But you all read it for yourself, the personal attacks are still in full force. Would you come back? Why, or why not?

I seriously doubt that 200 people went away because of personal attacks.

This website is hard to find, and apparently hard to log into. As it gets smaller, it becomes more insular. Pretty soon we will be hanging witches.

A witch! A witch! We have found a witch. Might we burn her?

I think you'd best send Reverend Hale back as soon as he come. This will set us all to arguin' again in the society and we thought to have peace this year. I think we ought to rely on the doctor now, and good prayer.

[get louder at lambeau]

That's a solid list of MIA posters. Miss them all for sure. Not that I agree with them all the time, but I think they all go way back to JSO.

And this is the real issue. Well said MPF. I only named 4. If I thought about it, I could probably name 10 more.

Face it, there's probably 200 people gone in the last year. Some part time posters and a significant group of daily posters.

Personally, I think the discussion was better when they were here. But you all read it for yourself, the personal attacks are still in full force. Would you come back? Why, or why not?

I seriously doubt that 200 people went away because of personal attacks.

This website is hard to find, and apparently hard to log into. As it gets smaller, it becomes more insular. Pretty soon we will be hanging witches.

A witch! A witch! We have found a witch. Might we burn her?

Shit, I'm not sure if the witch is supposed to be retail or mraynrand! We should probably just burn both of them to be safe, right?

[Bossman641]

That's a solid list of MIA posters. Miss them all for sure. Not that I agree with them all the time, but I think they all go way back to JSO.

And this is the real issue. Well said MPF. I only named 4. If I thought about it, I could probably name 10 more.

Face it, there's probably 200 people gone in the last year. Some part time posters and a significant group of daily posters.

Personally, I think the discussion was better when they were here. But you all read it for yourself, the personal attacks are still in full force. Would you come back? Why, or why not?

Again, why in the world would anyone think that a Packer forum would be a safe haven for Favre fans to congregate? I'm not disagreeing that things got too personal or that it eventually became a completely lost cause, but it went both ways. Anyone wishing Favre ill was called a hater, disrespectful, someone who needed to get over it and on and on. Anyone wanting Favre to do well was told they weren't a true Packer fan. It spiraled downhill from there.

But the question I keep coming back to is why. Nobody in their right mind would go to a Cavs forum right now and expect to not be harassed for celebrating Lebron James. No one would expect fair treatment were they to extol the virtues of Art Modell to a Browns board.

[MichiganPackerFan]

I am on the anti-Favre side, but I can say with certainty that the pro-Favre group got the worst of it on this board. By far. And unfortunately a lot are gone.

I spent a good deal of the summer away from here so I'm not completely sure who is gone for good and who will be returning soon. MOBB should be back soon. Who else aside from the four that Retail mentioned (And i dearly hope they come back) is gone?

[ThunderDan]

Admin, why in the hell are you letting this go on and on?

This is a BF thread not a did the "ProPacker" people drive off the BF Lovers thread. This should be in the Romper Room not here.

[get louder at lambeau]

I think ThunderDan might be a witch too.

[denverYooper]

Thread drift is somewhat expected in 322 pages :).

[hoosier]

I think ThunderDan might be a witch too.

There are ways of telling if she is a witch.

[Zool]

I think ThunderDan might be a witch too.

There are ways of telling if she is a witch.

THROW HIM INTO THE POND!

[get louder at lambeau]

Again, why in the world would anyone think that a Packer forum would be a safe haven for Favre fans to congregate?

I got it-

Because they're stupid.

[mraynrand]

That's a solid list of MIA posters. Miss them all for sure. Not that I agree with them all the time, but I think they all go way back to JSO.

And this is the real issue. Well said MPF. I only named 4. If I thought about it, I could probably name 10 more.

Face it, there's probably 200 people gone in the last year. Some part time posters and a significant group of daily posters.

Personally, I think the discussion was better when they were here. But you all read it for yourself, the personal attacks are still in full force. Would you come back? Why, or why not?

I seriously doubt that 200 people went away because of personal attacks.

This website is hard to find, and apparently hard to log into. As it gets smaller, it becomes more insular. Pretty soon we will be hanging witches.

A witch! A witch! We have found a witch. Might we burn her?

Shit, I'm not sure if the witch is supposed to be retail or mraynrand! We should probably just burn both of them to be safe, right?

That's what I would do. I weight about the same as a duck.

[mraynrand]

Admin, why in the hell are you letting this go on and on?

This is a BF thread not a did the "ProPacker" people drive off the BF Lovers thread. This should be in the Romper Room not here.

BFFF! BFFF! Burn the BFFF!

[cheesner]

That's a solid list of MIA posters. Miss them all for sure. Not that I agree with them all the time, but I think they all go way back to JSO.

And this is the real issue. Well said MPF. I only named 4. If I thought about it, I could probably name 10 more.

Face it, there's probably 200 people gone in the last year. Some part time posters and a significant group of daily posters.

Personally, I think the discussion was better when they were here. But you all read it for yourself, the personal attacks are still in full force. Would you come back? Why, or why not?

I have another theory on the missing "200". They left - not because of personal attacks on themselves , but because of the state of the Packers.

Many of the missing posters spent a better share of their posts over the last 5 years personally
attacking TT. Now that the job that TT has done their positions are looking extremely foolish, they realize their credibility is ruined. They have either found new sites or reregistered with a new login.

So I appreciate the irony of attributing their loss to personal attacks by other posters when it probably has more to do with the personal attacks they were dishing out. I don't feel sorry for them or miss them.

[cheesner]

As far as BF goes, I'm glad he is back so the Packers can have another shot at him with the Vikes.

He did great things for the Pack, but when he said he wanted to stick it to TT by plaing with the Vikes, he was saying he wanted to stick it to the Packers. That immediately spoiled his legacy in my eyes. The very next QB signed by the Packers should be assigned #4 and kill any discussion of retiring his number.

[Pugger]

That's a solid list of MIA posters. Miss them all for sure. Not that I agree with them all the time, but I think they all go way back to JSO.

And this is the real issue. Well said MPF. I only named 4. If I thought about it, I could probably name 10 more.

Face it, there's probably 200 people gone in the last year. Some part time posters and a significant group of daily posters.

Personally, I think the discussion was better when they were here. But you all read it for yourself, the personal attacks are still in full force. Would you come back? Why, or why not?

I seriously doubt that 200 people went away because of personal attacks.

This website is hard to find, and apparently hard to log into. As it gets smaller, it becomes more insular. Pretty soon we will be hanging witches.

A witch! A witch! We have found a witch. Might we burn her?

Shit, I'm not sure if the witch is supposed to be retail or mraynrand! We should probably just burn both of them to be safe, right?

I'm sure Retail thinks the witch is me.

[Joemailman]

So, did the Vikings conceal the true extent of Rice's injury until after Favre agreed to play? I love a good conspiracy theory.

[MJZiggy]

So, did the Vikings conceal the true extent of Rice's injury until after Favre agreed to play? I love a good conspiracy theory.

JH's conspiracy theory was better. First believing Favre when he says the 11 lbs was muscle and that his waist is smaller (right, there, chubby boy). Then attributing it to 'roids.

Favre, for several years, has not been able to tolerate anything bad being thought about him. From when he visited Greta to play the victim, to excuses for bad games and losses, to look at my bruised thigh. He came back into Lambeau and after the crowd loudly boo'ed him for 5 minutes said after the game that he hopes the fans still love him. Right dude, those were "love boos." :roll:

He got fat (comes along with getting old which he also did). The only one not willing to admit it is him (and maybe Woodbuck).

[mraynrand]

So, did the Vikings conceal the true extent of Rice's injury until after Favre agreed to play? I love a good conspiracy theory.

JH's conspiracy theory was better. First believing Favre when he says the 11 lbs was muscle and that his waist is smaller (right, there, chubby boy). Then attributing it to 'roids.

Favre, for several years, has not been able to tolerate anything bad being thought about him. From when he visited Greta to play the victim, to excuses for bad games and losses, to look at my bruised thigh. He came back into Lambeau and after the crowd loudly boo'ed him for 5 minutes said after the game that he hopes the fans still love him. Right dude, those were "love boos." :roll:

He got fat (comes along with getting old which he also did). The only one not willing to admit it is him (and maybe Woodbuck).

We've already driven 200 posters away with talk like this. Are you trying to get rid of the rest?

[gex]

Just got back from the Dells... Howd Favre do tonight...He play for more than 4 snaps...radio said he had one bounce right off Berrians hand for a pick six.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Just got back from the Dells... Howd Favre do tonight...He play for more than 4 snaps...radio said he had one bounce right off Berrians hand for a pick six.

Not very good. The one that bounced off Berrian's hands was one thing, but on the same drive before that, he threw another one that should have been picked but the Seattle defender played hot potato with it. It evened out. Threw another pick and fumbled twice.

[packerbacker1234]

Don't think they are too worried yet. Two new recievers who still need to learn the system - something tells me they are pounding it the first couple weeks until those WR's get set in - I predict a start like last year, where favre doesn't throw it much due to chemistry issues.

[RashanGary]

Vikings DL is still all world. Their secondary is better this year than last year. Adrian Peterson looks amazing. The OL has some decent continuity. The new receivers is their biggest problem, but with the way they run it and their decent line, they should be really good on offense. Their ST's is fantastic, starting with their punter and kicker and then their return game too.

Favre looks old and slow. His arm looks average. His understanding of the game is off the charts.

End of the day, It looks the Vikings are as good or better than last year in all areas except the passing game.



The Packers offense is a well oiled machine. The defense, when they get their best players back, we'll see. . . . They shouldn't be worse. The ST's, again, we'll see. All in all, the Packers don't look to be getting worse anywhere really. The offense looks to be clearly better. The defense and ST's. . . . There is some unknown.

It's going to be a battle, with the Vikings looking to be a very similar team to last year and the Packers either being similar to last year or better with the roof being SB champs.

We'll see how it pans out. It's going to be a freaking battle again.



I like that the Vikes start out against the high scoring Saints. It puts pressure on their weak spot (the passing game) right out of the gate. If we can get out of Philly with a win, we could have a one game cushion to start the season with comparable schedules down the stretch. The first week is never a make or break game, but it really is a big opening game. One team could leave with a big advantage on the division and it looks like we have the more favorable situation.

[Tarlam!]

I like that the Vikes start out against the high scoring Saints. It puts pressure on their weak spot (the passing game) right out of the gate. If we can get out of Philly with a win, we could have a one game cushion to start the season with comparable schedules down the stretch. The first week is never a make or break game, but it really is a big opening game. One team could leave with a big advantage on the division and it looks like we have the more favorable situation.

Excellent observation, plus Chicago losing to Detroit should round off an impressive Week 1.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think Brett's arm strength looks like it has for the last several years (e.g. not quite as good when he was young, but still above average). He was a bit inaccurate last night and he forced several balls. The first interception was a perfect ball to Berrian, but he had at least two other balls that should have been picked that were dropped and the second interception was an ovrerthrow by 10 yards to Camarillo.

Continuity on the Vikings OL? Depends on how long John Sullivan is out. Last night, they started their RG, Herrera, at OC and a rookie 5th round pick started at RG. They are going to miss Hicks. I think their OL has issues and is overrated. McKinnie is up and down. He's never been as good as he should be or as good as his reputation. Hutch should rebound from an injury plagued year, but he's getting older, so it's not a given (like Clifton and Tauscher). Sullivan and Herrera are JAGs. Loadholt was decent last year. Jury is out on how good he'll eventually be. I think he'll be good, but hopefully he suffers through a sophomore slump.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I like that the Vikes start out against the high scoring Saints. It puts pressure on their weak spot (the passing game) right out of the gate. If we can get out of Philly with a win, we could have a one game cushion to start the season with comparable schedules down the stretch. The first week is never a make or break game, but it really is a big opening game. One team could leave with a big advantage on the division and it looks like we have the more favorable situation.

Excellent observation, plus Chicago losing to Detroit should round off an impressive Week 1.

I don't think Detorit is as bad as people think. They will score on people this year.

[vince]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/08/29/mmqb/1.html
Brett Favre: He's already taking injections in his wounded ankle.

After his so-so eight series Saturday night on the hard floor of Mall of America Field (I prefer to call it the Metrodome, because that's what we know it to be), Favre went into the trainers' room in the Vikes' locker room and got an injection of lubricant in the left ankle that has three times been operated on to remove loose bodies. "Like a grease fitting,'' he said.

Noted orthopedist Dr. James Andrews did the most recent surgery May 22, with an interested party in the operating theater: Deanna Favre. "They took out a cup full of stuff -- bone and all these other loose bodies,'' Brett Favre said Saturday night. "Deanna watched and told me, 'If you don't feel a lot better, I'll be shocked.''

Favre feels better, but not really that good. He explained the arthroscopic procedure that happened in May and what's happened since. He said Dr. Andrews made two incisions on the top of his left ankle, where the ankle flexes above the foot, and sucked out the loose bodies. He said Dr. Andrews wasn't surprised a significant spur returned when Favre went for a re-exam a month ago -- but he was surprised it happened so fast. The Vikings will attempt to manage the pain the spur brings on, but Favre said he didn't think he'd take any painkillers stronger than Motrin.

"It's catching up with me, all this stuff,'' said Favre, who turns 41 in October.

"I asked you this a year ago -- Do you think you can last the season?''' I said to Favre. "And you said you didn't know. How about now?''

"I don't know. I have no idea, really," he answered. "My ankle just seems to get easier to sprain. I know everyone thinks the New Orleans game [the NFC Championship Game] killed me, but it was bad before then. Now we'll see if I can make it. My mind's telling me one thing, but my body's telling me something else.''

I've said this all along: This ankle thing's a little different that the weariness he felt a year ago. There could come a time where his mobility is so compromised that Favre won't be able to get out of the way of the rush consistently. It wouldn't surprise me if the ankle knocked him out for a few games this year.

[packerbacker1234]

Honestly, this isn't a new injury for him though - he had last year, and from most indications, it was even worse then. He may have even been getting injections for it - and we just never heard about it because, well, no one was talking about his ankle until after the saints game.

[Scott Campbell]

A week and a half of a grueling camp schedule will do that to you.

[channtheman]

I'm pretty sure if Favre's ankle was injured before the Saints game last year, we would have heard about it.

[Fritz]

Boy, he seems to be very concerned. Last year he seemed on fire to prove that he could play. This year he seems more worried about lasting the season. Interesting stuff.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Do you think ARod's comments in the last game were a shot at Favre? He said that he's played with a lot of injuries (e.g. torn ACL at Cal), but nobody knows about them. Favre is an iron man. No getting past that, but in recent years he's quick to point out his injuries--especially after a poor game or season.

[Bossman641]

This doesn't relate to the ankle injuries, but does it seem to anyone else that Favre has an extremely high fumbling rate? Not something I have tracked, but he appears to fumble the ball on a large percentage of sacks, I would guess much higher than the average.

He fumbled on Saturday night when he got sacked. He "fumbled" against the 49ers although he was ruled down.

It's as if he gets so worried about the sack that he completely forgets about ball security.

[HarveyWallbangers]

This doesn't relate to the ankle injuries, but does it seem to anyone else that Favre has an extremely high fumbling rate? Not something I have tracked, but he appears to fumble the ball on a large percentage of sacks, I would guess much higher than the average.

He fumbled on Saturday night when he got sacked. He "fumbled" against the 49ers although he was ruled down.

It's as if he gets so worried about the sack that he completely forgets about ball security.

He actually fumbled twice in this last game, but was bailed out on one by a penalty.

[Bossman641]

After looking at the stats perhaps I am wrong. I didn't watch Viking games too closely last year, just glanced as I was at the bar. Last year he didn't have many fumbles at all. I must be remembering his Jet and late Packer years.

Last year he only had 2 fumbles on 34 sacks.
08 - 10 fumbles on 30 sacks
07 - 9 fumbles on 15 sacks
06 - 8 fumbles on 21 sacks

[pbmax]

I'm pretty sure if Favre's ankle was injured before the Saints game last year, we would have heard about it.
It was and we did. I forget the game but it made the papers/Internets.

Apart from his arm, which looked better in Minn than in NY (we know why, now), what seems to have slowed him down were his legs. This was an observation made on these boards several times (and years) previously, that he would fade as his legs gave out. The assumption was that a failure to work out in the offseason was hurting his stamina. But now it seems like the problem centers on his ankles. He was as close to immobile as I have ever seen him last year.

[cheesner]

Do you think ARod's comments in the last game were a shot at Favre? He said that he's played with a lot of injuries (e.g. torn ACL at Cal), but nobody knows about them. Favre is an iron man. No getting past that, but in recent years he's quick to point out his injuries--especially after a poor game or season.
No. AR has continually avoided discussing BF.

[Pugger]

Favre's problem this season is going to be his mobility, or lack thereof. He was never fleet of foot but now that he is getting pretty old by football standards plus a bum ankle he is going to see more all-out blitzes this season. I'll be surprised if he lasts the entire season, frankly.

[RashanGary]

Favre's ankle is really bothering him. He just got cleaned up and there is already a bone spur according to Favre. There just isn't any cartilage left. It's bone on bone like dick Butkus. I'm looking forward to week 7.

[Tony Oday]

Just saw on sportscenter is looking like he is going to have a tough time with his ankle...

[Tarlam!]

Just saw on sportscenter is looking like he is going to have a tough time with his ankle...

I don't wish injury upon anybody. But I hope he completely ruins his legacy by playing so poorly, that he gets put in the "didn't know when to quit" basket.

After all the drama with this guy, I doubt his legend will be in the same class as Lombardi (who left), Reggie White (who left) even Holmgren.

I hope they change Brett Favre Pass as a street name, too.

[get louder at lambeau]

Just saw on sportscenter is looking like he is going to have a tough time with his ankle...

I don't wish injury upon anybody. But I hope he completely ruins his legacy by playing so poorly, that he gets put in the "didn't know when to quit" basket.

After all the drama with this guy, I doubt his legend will be in the same class as Lombardi (who left), Reggie White (who left) even Holmgren.

I hope they change Brett Favre Pass as a street name, too.

All I hope they do is play his original retirement press conference at his Packer Hall of Fame induction ceremony, and add it to the videos that play in the Hall of Fame. Just act like he really retired.

[MichiganPackerFan]

I hope they change Brett Favre Pass as a street name, too.

They could change it to "Waffle Way"

[Fritz]

Or "Brett Favre Interception Way"

[Packgator]

I hope they change Brett Favre Pass as a street name, too.

They could change it to "Waffle Way"

Or....

Drama Drive

[get louder at lambeau]

I hope they change Brett Favre Pass as a street name, too.

They could change it to "Waffle Way"

Or....

Drama Drive

Traitor Trail?

[ThunderDan]

I hope they change Brett Favre Pass as a street name, too.

They could change it to "Waffle Way"

Or....

Drama Drive

Traitor Trail?

Stick-It-To-Ted Terrace?

[hoosier]

Favre's ankle is really bothering him. He just got cleaned up and there is already a bone spur according to Favre. There just isn't any cartilage left. It's bone on bone like dick Butkus. I'm looking forward to week 7.

Justin, I think you missed your calling. You are a poet who doesn't know it.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Just too funny.


Vikings QB Favre's eyes hurting

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/rumors/post/Vikings-QB-Favre-s-eyes-hurting;_ylt=Aqbw9A_xX9oYQIBFC0KubN8.ubYF?urn=nfl-266616

[denverYooper]

Just too funny.


Vikings QB Favre's eyes hurting

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/rumors/post/Vikings-QB-Favre-s-eyes-hurting;_ylt=Aqbw9A_xX9oYQIBFC0KubN8.ubYF?urn=nfl-266616

Did he get Lasik?

[Fritz]

He says his eyes are completely dried out.

Sounds like he's been hanging around with Cletidus Hunt. Did the Vikes sign him, too?

[mraynrand]

He says his eyes are completely dried out.

Sounds like he's been hanging around with Cletidus Hunt. Did the Vikes sign him, too?

You had to ask...

http://i453.photobucket.com/albums/qq254/mraynrand/CleedeeusViking.jpg

[bobblehead]

He says his eyes are completely dried out.

Sounds like he's been hanging around with Cletidus Hunt. Did the Vikes sign him, too?

I heard that happens if you cry a lot.

"Whaaaa....they didn't tell me Rice was hurt"
"Whaaaa....Percy never said the migraines were getting worse"
"Whaaaa....Brad doesn't fully understand the offense."
"Whaaa....Arod is gonna work like a rented mule this year"

[mraynrand]

He says his eyes are completely dried out.

Sounds like he's been hanging around with Cletidus Hunt. Did the Vikes sign him, too?

I heard that happens if you cry a lot.

"Whaaaa....they didn't tell me Rice was hurt"
"Whaaaa....Percy never said the migraines were getting worse"
"Whaaaa....Brad doesn't fully understand the offense."
"Whaaa....Arod is gonna work like a rented mule this year"

http://i453.photobucket.com/albums/qq254/mraynrand/Favre/vikingfavre2.jpg

[channtheman]

Favre damage control is in full force before the season starts. If he sucks, he points to the ankle, the eye, if he doesn't you'll still hear about it but instead he persevered through it.

[Fritz]

He says his eyes are completely dried out.

Sounds like he's been hanging around with Cletidus Hunt. Did the Vikes sign him, too?

You had to ask...

http://i453.photobucket.com/albums/qq254/mraynrand/CleedeeusViking.jpg

Dude, this seriously funny stuff. You crack me up.

[woodbuck27]

I was actually thinking along the lines of Packerbacker1234's first post - gee, isn't that everyone's strategy for every QB? - when I read Patler's and Lurker's assessments. And they both explain it well.

So I agree with them - this is, in some respects, a new strategy.

As for Packerbacker's claim that Favre has finally learned to play smartly, may I be the first to politely suggest that you go back and take a look at the last pass Favre threw last season?

SUre it was a poor decision, but of any time in his career to make a bad choice, that was one time I just can't blame him per say. THere was a penalty the play before that even put the ball in his hands, he already HAD THEM in position to win with what is a easily makeable FG for Longwell, and the coaches screwed that one up.

The pass was a bad decision, but the man was beaten. All day long. He played very well, especially given the damaging, and illegal, hits he was taking. He should of ran, should of thrown it away, should of never one back across his body - but man, I was surprised he was still standing at that point. They already had the game won and the coaches fuck up was far more inexcusable than favre's. You do NOT get a 12 man in the huddle penalty when your in game winning FG range. Ever. There is no excuse. At least favre can say he was "trying to make a play".


Seriously, if I am a vikings fan, I would of been calling for the OC's head for that 12 man penalty, or whoever the fuck was in control of it, be it childress, or whatever> just like against philly for us the one year on 4th and 27 - I blame the defensive coordinator for that loss, not favre. Favre should not be required to win you every game, especially after he already did what he needed to do TO win.

I finally got to this thread. A thread that showcases the worst in some people that just don't and never will get it. That being that it's surely a Packer forum and was once an awesome Packer Forum that's in a decline based on it's history. Why? Maybe because of attacks against those of us that still love the Packers and equally love the game of football, and the brand or style of football played in the NFL. Are we supposed to ignore those with insults?

I love sports generally. I've followed the teams that Vladimir Guerrero plays on in MLB, since he was a Montreal Expo. The Angels and now Texans. I have been too busy of late to check his progress this season but know the the Texans are a near lock to win their division. I always followed the teams that the Big 'M' ( Frank Mahovlich) played on. The Toronto Maple Leafs, Detroit Red Wings and Montreal Canadians in the NHL. I play golf as a lefty so I follow Phil Michelson and Mike Weir and staynloyal to these men no matter how they are playing.

I have followed the Green Bay packers ups and long periods of downs likely longer than any member of Packer Rats. That began way back in 1958 or just before the Vince Lombardi Era. I'm pleased that the Green Bay Packers are picked as a team to contend this season, as we're in somewhat of a drought. I love the drama in sports and the Brett Favre story certainly fills my appetite there.

Brett Favre has given me more awesome thrills than any other Pro athlete. I remain loyal to Brett Favre as an NFL fan but:

If Aaron Rodgers and the Packers can get it together and jump over the Favre led Vikings.? That won't disappoint me.

Wherer I get to shaking my head is when posters here are attacked or called out to choose 'all Packers' over football and the excitement and drama as part and partial of the NFL.

I was once the leading poster on this forum in terms of number of posts. I have received incredible criticism from many no longer here now. Amongst that group I deem there was a consistency. They were moderately to,incorrigibly insulting and / or abusive to anyone that didn't hate Brett Favre.

I'm in some sadness to see the likes of Rastak gone from PackerRats. He was golden here and that as a Vikings fan. Who in their right mind could post in a manner that would cause Rastak to retire from PackerRats? To read that Bretsky isn't as active or gone fr. Packerrats, is just plain ugly. B. was one of my favourite posters here. He's gone!!? WTF. He was one of our stars and in terms of this forum a respected friend. A fair enough man that understood me for my stances without ridicule or senseless bullying.

GrnBay007 gone. Give me a break! She's a real Lady and an awesome Packer fan and support for our forum. These three posters all wonderful contributors and if they stay away? Anyone of those three or any poster with style and manners bolts this place. We all must share that fact as BLAME. Feel some shame? Of course the haters won't ever get there. They feel justified in their hatred.

No 'of course' you won't feel shame for any man or woman that whimps out. See ! Your a real Man or Woman. ( Obvious sarcasm ) NO! The bottom line. We lost three outstanding members of PackerRats and that sucks too hard.

On the topic of Brett Favre and his mobility:

That man is still playing in the 40/41st year of his life! He was incredible overall last season, setting big personal numbers. Some of you point to the obvious. He has to slow down or not run outside of the pocket. The issues that appear to me as obvious in terms of Favre and scrambling or not. How good is his OL in any given game?

The Vikings had an ugly game plan at half time in terms with it's OL. Favre was getting killed. Vikings HC Brad Childress was livid with his OL'S UGLY Performance. Some of you Packer fans can point out just another end of game pick against Brett Favre. Lay all blame there but the blame for that Vikings loss cannot all fall on Brett Favre. Given all the circumstances and happenings Favre had a solid NFC Championship game Vs the Saints.

As an NFL fan and keen in my support of a great game between two well matched opponets. Favre and the Vikings didn't disappoint in that loss to the Saints. I'd love to see the Vikings play us in the NFC Championship game. I realize that's a longshot.

Also I cheer this way: I want Favre to play well and the same goes for Aaron Rodgers.

Let the BEST team win !

On the matter of losing members:

I'll lay it out there again: I'm shamed that Bretzky, GrnBay007 and Rastak are gone. I might have helped them hang in there but sooner than later anyone abused let's go except for men as I am. I'm certainly not implying that I'm better/ stronger than those three fine and overall active and contributing posters.

( Just a thought )Maybe the Administrator of PackerRats could have taken whatever step was necessary before we lost such quality posters/people. Maybe simply invite all three to return and assure them of the loss that their absense means to PackerRats. All three are big loss's.

That step had to be something other than the illimination of this thread as that would have been scapegoating or ... to the abusers favor a win-win.

My name is Ed. woodbuck27 :D

[mraynrand]

I finally got to this thread. A thread that showcases the worst in some people that just don't and never will get it. That being that it's surely a Packer forum and was once an awesome Packer Forum that's in a decline based on it's history. Why? Maybe because of attacks against those of us that still love the Packers and equally love the game of football, and the brand or style of football played in the NFL. Are we supposed to ignore those with insults

Please stop insulting me.

[mraynrand]

Also I cheer this way: I want Favre to play well and the same goes for Aaron Rodgers.

Let the BEST team win !



I want Favre to play poorly and for the Vikings to lose horribly, just as I have always wanted for those miserable Vikings. I have never wanted, nor will I ever want a Viking QB to play well. As to the 'Let the Best team win' - if the 'Best team' happens to be the Vikings, I still hope they find a way to lose, because I like the Packers and hate the Vikings ('Hate' for you pansies means in an athletic competition sense, not REAL hate).

If this POV causes you to flee Packerrats, don't let the browser hit you in the ass on the way out! :D

[Scott Campbell]

I'll lay it out there again: I'm shamed that Bretzky, GrnBay007 and Rastak are gone.


I don't think it's all your fault Woody.

[Scott Campbell]

Florio says that Bert painted a massive target on his back with all this talk of being old and broken.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/09/01/operation-break-brett-begins-in-eight-days/

[Fritz]

You know who else I hated in that same sense, mraynrand?

Fran Tarkenton. Hated that guy.

[Scott Campbell]

You know who else I hated in that same sense, mraynrand?

Fran Tarkenton. Hated that guy.


That's Incredible.

[swede]

You know who else I hated in that same sense, mraynrand?

Fran Tarkenton. Hated that guy.


That's Incredible.

Wait...He played FOOTBALL? His name is FRAN!

[mraynrand]

You know who else I hated in that same sense, mraynrand?

Fran Tarkenton. Hated that guy.


That's Incredible.

As a kid, my most fervent wish was that they would put Fran in that plastic box instead of yogi kudu

http://www.dangerousminds.net/images/uploads/ThatsincredFINAL3282123165_272fb127c8-1.jpg

[Freak Out]

I loved the high beams.

[Tarlam!]

Woody, I've been posting with you for a lot of years, but your ..... oh just forget it.

[Fritz]

You know who else I hated in that same sense, mraynrand?

Fran Tarkenton. Hated that guy.


That's Incredible.

As a kid, my most fervent wish was that they would put Fran in that plastic box instead of yogi kudu

http://www.dangerousminds.net/images/uploads/ThatsincredFINAL3282123165_272fb127c8-1.jpg


Hair Helmet!!!!

[pbmax]

I think it would be well worth pointing out that while Brett Favre fever ran high and heavy through the forum for quite sometime and caused many hard feelings, many of the posters we used to rely on left for reasons other than pro or anti Brett Favre status.

I don't think OPF or Joemailman (who is back) left because they were persecuted over #4. Rastak (who was back for the game thread last week) did not leave for that reason. Partial and Bigguns (whom I miss) got the axe for offenses not directly related to Favre. I think Ballhawk has posted less since we lost Ruvell last year.

Harlan has retired to Elba. Nutz and GBRulz should probably be included in Woody's list of Favre casualties. But ND72 and bulldog have had other issues intrude. Madtown sold the place and Zool isn't around nearly as often.

In short, there are a lot of posters we miss but to reduce it to Favre-a-palooza misses the point. This forum can get nasty from time to time about topics other than #4 and that may not help. We just had a thread go that way this week. We have some good posters pick up the slack. But its hard to replace natural attrition when the front page looks like it does now and there is nothing to attract new members.

[Tarlam!]

We have some good posters pick up the slack. But its hard to replace natural attrition when the front page looks like it does now and there is nothing to attract new members.

Plus a billion

[MOBB DEEP]

I was actually thinking along the lines of Packerbacker1234's first post - gee, isn't that everyone's strategy for every QB? - when I read Patler's and Lurker's assessments. And they both explain it well.

So I agree with them - this is, in some respects, a new strategy.

As for Packerbacker's claim that Favre has finally learned to play smartly, may I be the first to politely suggest that you go back and take a look at the last pass Favre threw last season?

SUre it was a poor decision, but of any time in his career to make a bad choice, that was one time I just can't blame him per say. THere was a penalty the play before that even put the ball in his hands, he already HAD THEM in position to win with what is a easily makeable FG for Longwell, and the coaches screwed that one up.

The pass was a bad decision, but the man was beaten. All day long. He played very well, especially given the damaging, and illegal, hits he was taking. He should of ran, should of thrown it away, should of never one back across his body - but man, I was surprised he was still standing at that point. They already had the game won and the coaches fuck up was far more inexcusable than favre's. You do NOT get a 12 man in the huddle penalty when your in game winning FG range. Ever. There is no excuse. At least favre can say he was "trying to make a play".


Seriously, if I am a vikings fan, I would of been calling for the OC's head for that 12 man penalty, or whoever the fuck was in control of it, be it childress, or whatever> just like against philly for us the one year on 4th and 27 - I blame the defensive coordinator for that loss, not favre. Favre should not be required to win you every game, especially after he already did what he needed to do TO win.

I finally got to this thread. A thread that showcases the worst in some people that just don't and never will get it. That being that it's surely a Packer forum and was once an awesome Packer Forum that's in a decline based on it's history. Why? Maybe because of attacks against those of us that still love the Packers and equally love the game of football, and the brand or style of football played in the NFL. Are we supposed to ignore those with insults

I love sports generally. I've followed the teams that Vladimir Guerrero plays on in MLB, since he was a Montreal Expo. The Angels and now Texans. I have been too busy of late to check his progress this season but know the the Texans are a near lock to win their division. I always followed the teams that the Big 'M' ( Frank Mahovlich) played on. The Toronto Maple Leafs, Detroit Red Wings and Montreal Canadians in the NHL. I play golf as a lefty so I follow Phil Michelson and Mike Weir and staynloyal to these men no matter how they are playing.

I have followed the Green Bay packers ups and long periods of downs likely longer than any member of Packer Rats. That began way back in 1958 or just before the Vince Lombardi Era. I'm pleased that the Green Bay Packers are picked as a team to contend this season as we're in somewhat of a drought. I love the drama in sports and the Brett Favre story certainly fills my appetite there.

Brett Favre has given me more awesome thrills than any other Pro athlete. I remain loyal to Brett Favre as an NFL fan but:

If Aaron Rodgers and the Packers can get tit together and jump over the Favre led Vikings.? That won't disappoint me.

Wherer I get to shaking my head is when posters here are attacked or called out to choose 'all Packers' over football and the excitement and drama as part and partial of the NFL.

I was once the leading poster on this forum in terms of number of posts. I have received incredible criticism from many no longer here now. Amongst that group I deem there was a consistency. They were moderately toincorrigibly insulting and / or abusive to anyone that didn't hate Brett Favre.

I'm in some sadness to see the likes of Rastak gone from PackerRats. He was golden here and that as a Vikings fan. Who in their right ming could post in a manner that would cause Rastak to retire from PackerRats? To read that Bretsky isn"t as active or gone fr. Packerrats, is just plain ugly. B. was one of my favourite posters here. He's gone!!? WTF. Grnbay007 gone. Give me a break! She was a real Lady and an awesome Packer fan and support for our forum. These three posters all wonderful contributors and if thet stay away ? Anyone of those three or any poster with proper style and manners. WE all must share that fact as BLAME.

On the topic of Brett Favre and his mobility:

That man is still playing in the 40/41st year of his life! He was incredible overall last season setting big personal numbers. Some of you point to the obvious. He has to slow down or not run outside of the pocket. The issues that appear to me as obvious in terms of Favre and scrabling or not. How good is his OL in any given game?

The Vikings had an ugly game plan at half time in terms wih it's OL. Favre was getting killed. Vikings HC Brad Childress was livid with hiS OL'S UGLY Performance. Some of you Packer fans can point out just another end of game pick against Brett Favre.

As an NFL fan and keen in my support of a great game between two opponets Favre and the Vikings didn't disappoint. I'd love to see the Vikings play us in the NFC Championship game. I realize that's a longshot.

Also I cheer this way: I want Favre to play well and the same goes for Aaron Rodgers.

Let the BEST team win !

On the matter of losing members:

I'll lay it out there again: I'm shamed that Bretzky, GrnBay007 and Rastak are gone. I might have helped them hang in there but sooner than later anyone abused let's go except for men as I am. I'm certainly not implying that I'm better/ stronger than those three fine and overall active and contributing posters. It was up to the Administrator of PackerRats to take whatever step was necessary before we lost such quality posters/people. That step had to be something other than the illimination of this thread as that would have been scapegoating or ... to the abusers.

My name is Ed. woodbuck27 :D

cool post..

[MOBB DEEP]

I hope they change Brett Favre Pass as a street name, too.

They could change it to "Waffle Way"

Or....

Drama Drive

Traitor Trail?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[MOBB DEEP]

does anyone know if chilly plans to play the geezer tonight?

amazing that ALL nfl teams play final game tonight...

[ThunderDan]

does anyone know if chilly plans to play the geezer tonight?

amazing that ALL nfl teams play final game tonight...

It gives them the time needed to break down film and evaluate players before the roster cut on Saturday.

[Scott Campbell]

does anyone know if chilly plans to play the geezer tonight?

.


I don't think so.

[denverYooper]

does anyone know if chilly plans to play the geezer tonight?

amazing that ALL nfl teams play final game tonight...\

Dunno, but it's vs. Denver so it'll be on here.